CA - Court upholds Menendez brothers' convictions

[Nadal]

What proof is there, and by proof I don't mean claims by the killers? As far as I am aware all we have is the claim of two sociopaths using the abuse excuse to get away with blowing both parents away with a shotgun.
Sorry, that isn't enough for me.
We will have to respectfully agree to disagree about this because as I have already stated, I will never believe them.

Again we have Roy Rossello outright saying Jose raped him. Two different cousins also said in Court that they told them Jose was sexually abusing them years before the murders. There's also a letter allegedly written by Erik to one of those two cousins mentioning the sexual abuse years before the murders. It's difficult to argue against Jose being a Paedophile.

 

[Bekind89]

Again we have Roy Rossello outright saying Jose raped him. Two different cousins also said in Court that they told them Jose was sexually abusing them years before the murders. There's also a letter allegedly written by Erik to one of those two cousins mentioning the sexual abuse years before the murders. It's difficult to argue against Jose being a Paedophile.

Where were these people during the trial? Why were they not called to testify?
It is easy to accuse a dead person because they can't defend themselves.
IF they had this knowledge they should have testified in the trial and I don't understand why they didn't.
Also, I will never believe L&E. Ever.

 

[Nadal]

Where were these people during the trial? Why were they not called to testify?
It is easy to accuse a dead person because they can't defend themselves.
IF they had this knowledge they should have testified in the trial and I don't understand why they didn't.
Also, I will never believe L&E. Ever.

Huh? The cousins did testify. Roy Ronnello was a young recent rape victim who was tied to Jose's Company you can hardly blame him for not coming forward until he was older and had processed his trauma. Do we still blame Harvey Weinstein's victims for not coming forward right away? Bill Cosby's? Michael Jackson's? There's no difference he was raped by a powerful music executive as a musician when he was a 14 year old child.

 

[Bekind89]

Huh? The cousins did testify. Roy Ronnello was a young recent rape victim who was tied to Jose's Company you can hardly blame him for not coming forward until he was older and had processed his trauma. Do we still blame Harvey Weinstein's victims for not coming forward right away? Bill Cosby's? Michael Jackson's? There's no difference he was raped by a powerful music executive as a musician when he was a 14 year old child.

Sorry, i do not believe them and I never will. I do not believe they were in fear of their life, which was their excuse for the savage murder of their parents.
They have absolutely zero credibility, imo.

 

[fridaybaker]

What proof is there, and by proof I don't mean claims by the killers? As far as I am aware all we have is the claim of two sociopaths using the abuse excuse to get away with blowing both parents away with a shotgun.
Sorry, that isn't enough for me.
We will have to respectfully agree to disagree about this because as I have already stated, I will never believe them.

Lies, lies, and more lies. Then there are the ever-changing stories. How about talking about murdering their therapist? How about burglary and theft. Breaking rules in prison…. These two are the poster children for affluenza: Entitled. Willing to do anything or say anything to get what they want. I never believed them in the beginning and I still don’t.

 

[fridaybaker]

Again we have Roy Rossello outright saying Jose raped him. Two different cousins also said in Court that they told them Jose was sexually abusing them years before the murders. There's also a letter allegedly written by Erik to one of those two cousins mentioning the sexual abuse years before the murders. It's difficult to argue against Jose being a Paedophile.

In my mind, these don’t hold a lot of water. It’s very easy to make these claims when you know you’ll never have to face the accused. I know of several situations where people have made these claims, but when it came down to brass tacks, they recanted. People can, and do, make up things all the time.

There were obviously family of the parents who didn’t like them. And there are many reasons and motives for family and friends to try and get their loved ones out of prison, even if they know they are guilty. I could list a dozen of them.

I recently read an interview of the 90 year old sister of Kitty, and was astonished at how false she came across. I’m not making any claims about Kitty, but I didn’t believe the sister at all. Her motives? I have no idea. I just found her unbelievable.

 

[PromotedPawn]

I don’t know much about the history of this case. I was only an infant when the crime occurred.

I will say that I have always thought these two were spoiled, entitled brats. However, I’m quite inclined to always believe the victim. If they say they were victims of abuse, I believe them. One can simultaneously view them as victims and criminals.

They lied, stole, cheated, and murdered. They were also raped by their own father.
These facts can exist together, and even help explain why they are who they are. Sexual abuse doesn’t excuse murder, but I hope they can be rehabilitated to the point of being eligible for release someday.

MOO

 

[Nadal]

Sorry, i do not believe them and I never will. I do not believe they were in fear of their life, which was their excuse for the savage murder of their parents.
They have absolutely zero credibility, imo.

To be clear i was referring to Rossello not Lyle and Eric. Why wouldn't you believe him?

 

[Nadal]

In my mind, these don’t hold a lot of water. It’s very easy to make these claims when you know you’ll never have to face the accused. I know of several situations where people have made these claims, but when it came down to brass tacks, they recanted. People can, and do, make up things all the time.

There were obviously family of the parents who didn’t like them. And there are many reasons and motives for family and friends to try and get their loved ones out of prison, even if they know they are guilty. I could list a dozen of them.

I recently read an interview of the 90 year old sister of Kitty, and was astonished at how false she came across. I’m not making any claims about Kitty, but I didn’t believe the sister at all. Her motives? I have no idea. I just found her unbelievable.

That's fine but what about Roy Rossello? He wasn't family or friends with the family he was a teenage musician who said he was raped by Jose. Why would he lie? He wasn't saying he knew anything about the abuse of Lyle and Erik he was saying he was raped by their father.

 

[Nadal]

I don’t know much about the history of this case. I was only an infant when the crime occurred.

I will say that I have always thought these two were spoiled, entitled brats. However, I’m quite inclined to always believe the victim. If they say they were victims of abuse, I believe them. One can simultaneously view them as victims and criminals.

They lied, stole, cheated, and murdered. They were also raped by their own father.
These facts can exist together, and even help explain why they are who they are. Sexual abuse doesn’t excuse murder, but I hope they can be rehabilitated to the point of being eligible for release someday.

MOO

To be clear this is my exact position. I don't think the sexual abuse excuses the murders i think it likely provides and explanation for part of it though and particularly for why they were capable of something like that. The big thing though is Kitty's murder if they just killed Jose their abuser i'd maybe feel differently but her murder IMO was to ensure they inherited the money and not her, that and the theft and planned thefts shows me a major part of it was financially motivated too.

I just find it very difficult to dismiss Roy Rossello or the cousins, i 100% believe Jose was a paedophile who abused his sons as well as Roy.

 

[PromotedPawn]

To be clear this is my exact position. I don't think the sexual abuse excuses the murders i think it likely provides and explanation for part of it though and particularly for why they were capable of something like that. The big thing though is Kitty's murder if they just killed Jose their abuser i'd maybe feel differently but her murder IMO was to ensure they inherited the money and not her, that and the theft and planned thefts shows me a major part of it was financially motivated too.

I just find it very difficult to dismiss Roy Rossello or the cousins, i 100% believe Jose was a paedophile who abused his sons as well as Roy.

They could have killed their mother for the money. That is the most likely motive. I also consider its not unusual for victims of parental abuse to place blame on the other parent who fails to protect them.

We hear too much about parents who stand by while their children are being raped, beaten, and murdered.

I’m not saying their mother allowed or participated in the abuse. I can just understand how they might blame her for “allowing” it, as it isn’t out of the realm of things I’ve heard from abuse victims.

 

[Nadal]

They could have killed their mother for the money. That is the most likely motive. I also consider its not unusual for victims of parental abuse to place blame on the other parent who fails to protect them.

We hear too much about parents who stand by while their children are being raped, beaten, and murdered.

I’m not saying their mother allowed or participated in the abuse. I can just understand how they might blame her for “allowing” it, as it isn’t out of the realm of things I’ve heard from abuse victims.

It's definitely possible. Ftr one of the cousins said they told Kittie and she dismissed it and did nothing.

 

[Swirlz]

Kitty's signature is also on the outside of the Fotomat envelope that contained creepy pics with heads cropped.

 

[Bekind89]

To be clear i was referring to Rossello not Lyle and Eric. Why wouldn't you believe him?

I stated that I do not believe E&L were victims of abuse and I still don't and never will.

 

[friendlysleuther]

What proof is there, and by proof I don't mean claims by the killers? As far as I am aware all we have is the claim of two sociopaths using the abuse excuse to get away with blowing both parents away with a shotgun.
Sorry, that isn't enough for me.
We will have to respectfully agree to disagree about this because as I have already stated, I will never believe them.

Did you watch the trials & news back then ?

 

[Swirlz]

I'm old enough to have watched the live trial in it's entirety. The evidence of sexual abuse:

Testimony of a cousin who at age 23 was living at their home. She claims Lyle told her and that she in turn told Kitty who ignored it.

Testimony of a cousin who claimed that at as children, Erik told him.

A medical record of Erik being treated at age 6 or 7 for an injury to the back of his throat. A child abuse expert testified the injury was consistent with sexual abuse.

A Fotomat envelope that had Kitty's signature on it and that contained pics of pubescent boys, completely naked with the heads cropped. One boy was identifiable as Erik by a birthmark on his wrist. I was raised during the seventies, a timeframe of a much more relaxed attitude, just in general, toward nudity but trust me, even for that time period, these pics were creepy. The prosecutors in both trials took the position the children took them of each other or that some other child visiting their house took the pics. NO ONE would keep those pics if kids had taken them. They'd have been destroyed immediately. Someone with a lot more power and influence than any child who had ever been to their house took them and wanted them to remain in that envelope.

Audiotape of a friend of Lyle's claiming Lyle told him. This friend was called as a prosecution witness and was not pro-defense.

 

[Sarahlou]

I fully believe both were raped/abused by their sick father.

 

[Inthedetails]

I'm old enough to have watched the live trial in it's entirety. The evidence of sexual abuse:

Testimony of a cousin who at age 23 was living at their home. She claims Lyle told her and that she in turn told Kitty who ignored it.

Testimony of a cousin who claimed that at as children, Erik told him.

A medical record of Erik being treated at age 6 or 7 for an injury to the back of his throat. A child abuse expert testified the injury was consistent with sexual abuse.

A Fotomat envelope that had Kitty's signature on it and that contained pics of pubescent boys, completely naked with the heads cropped. One boy was identifiable as Erik by a birthmark on his wrist. I was raised during the seventies, a timeframe of a much more relaxed attitude, just in general, toward nudity but trust me, even for that time period, these pics were creepy. The prosecutors in both trials took the position the children took them of each other or that some other child visiting their house took the pics. NO ONE would keep those pics if kids had taken them. They'd have been destroyed immediately. Someone with a lot more power and influence than any child who had ever been to their house took them and wanted them to remain in that envelope.

Audiotape of a friend of Lyle's claiming Lyle told him. This friend was called as a prosecution witness and was not pro-defense.

I think they were abused, I think they committed murder, and I think they were rightfully convicted.

Now, when they are up for parole, the parole board is not re-trying the case but determining whether TODAY they are fit to enter society. Sure, the board factors in the original crime and trial, but they also look at their behavior since the convictions.

And their behavior since the convictions is keeping them in prison. They can try again in three years.

(And, honestly, I predict they would commit financial crimes if they were released, fwiw. My opinion.)

jmopinion

 

[Nadal]

I think they were abused, I think they committed murder, and I think they were rightfully convicted.

Now, when they are up for parole, the parole board is not re-trying the case but determining whether TODAY they are fit to enter society. Sure, the board factors in the original crime and trial, but they also look at their behavior since the convictions.

And their behavior since the convictions is keeping them in prison. They can try again in three years.

(And, honestly, I predict they would commit financial crimes if they were released, fwiw. My opinion.)

jmopinion

I honestly don't think they'd commit further crimes. I think they would go the Damian Echols route, write a book that sells well, get paid for interviews, etc. In the current climate i could see a book on the sexual abuse being a bestseller.

Lyle and Erik really weren't cut out for crime and i cannot picture them even knowing how to commit serious financial crimes, the robbery and planned further robberies sounded very stupid. Barry Minkow was obviously going to commit financial crimes upon a release, i don't see it in Lyle and Erik even if they wanted to.

 

[friendlysleuther]

I stated that I do not believe E&L were victims of abuse and I still don't and never

Did you watch the trials & news back then ?

I'm old enough to have watched the live trial in it's entirety. The evidence of sexual abuse:
<rsbm>

@Bekind89 & @Swirlz — Thank you. I was asking bekind if they had watched the trial because I had gone back through & read the headlines from when their trials were going on. Much of what Bekind (& others) say, are almost identical to the headlines.

IMO , the media can greatly influence our opinions..

IMO, a newer example of this would be The Karen Read Trial. I could easily spot those who had actually watched the trial, versus those who read a handful of headlines or watched a certain crime channel. But, it makes sense.. When that’s all you hear

A study on this would be interesting!

Below are some of the headlines :