CA - Court upholds Menendez brothers' convictions

[otto]

no, but it should have been a mitigating factor in sentencing (also just personally, I want to say I believe them 100%)

Taking into account that in the 90s, people either believed such abuse didn't exist or was the fault of the victim a lot of the time, I think that if the same case was presented now they'd not receive life sentences, or would at least have a chance of parole.

I understand the tendency to assume that there was no public awareness, acceptance, or prosecution based on boys that were abused by men in 1989. That simply is not true. I've included some links about the Mount Cashel orphanage, where many boys were abused by men. Oprah Winfrey reported on the abuse of boys by men in 1989.

In 1975, the investigation into the sexual abuse of boys was quashed by the Justice Department. Fourteen years later, the Justice Department stepped out of the way. To get a sense of the global climate regarding the abuse of boys by men in 1989, read about Mount Cashel.

It was international news. If Lyle and Eric were abused as boys, they would have read about Mt. Cashel abuse in February, 1989. They should have told that story from the beginning in August 1989, rather than running with the hit-man theory. Global, public sympathy was in place for boys abused by their male parent or caregiver. What was their reason for not reporting their parents to the authorities?

"Shane Earle, whose lawsuit against the Mount Cashel Orphanage in St. John's over physical and sexual abuse during the mid-1970s led to a public inquiry, drew wider attention to the case with a 1989 appearance on Oprah Winfrey's show."

Oprah Winfrey’s talk show affected Canadian scandal, literature and activism

The final week of "The Oprah Winfrey Show" has inspired nostalgia about how the Chicago-based host influenced daytime television programming. And with more than 5,000 episodes behind her, in a 25-year run that comes to an end next week, the … <a...

ca.news.yahoo.com

"The document, released Friday, is the latest step in a saga that started in 1987 with charges against one priest and would expand to a series of scandals that closed the Mount Cashel orphanage in St. John's and recently forced the Roman Catholic Episcopal Corp. to sell churches and other property to settle claims.
...

The Mount Cashel scandal exploded in 1989, and included reports of how a 1975 police investigation was quashed by the provincial Justice Department. The Hughes inquiry, ordered by the Newfoundland and Labrador government, found numerous failings in the child protection system.
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/newfoundland-labrador/church-mount-cashel-settlement-1.7255755

"On 15 February 1989, the Royal Newfoundland Constabulary re-opened its 1975 investigation into allegations of child abuse at the Mount Cashel Boys' Home (popularly known as the Mount Cashel Orphanage) in St. John's."
Mount Cashel Orphanage Abuse Scandal

An examination of the events surrounding the Mount Cashel Orphanage abuse scandal that occured at the Mount Cashel Boy's Home in St. John's.

www.heritage.nf.ca

 

[CrimeJunkie82]

no, but it should have been a mitigating factor in sentencing (also just personally, I want to say I believe them 100%)

Taking into account that in the 90s, people either believed such abuse didn't exist or was the fault of the victim a lot of the time, I think that if the same case was presented now they'd not receive life sentences, or would at least have a chance of parole.

I agree 100% with you. I am a survivor of sexual abuse from the 90's. Even as a young female, I was made to feel as if it were my fault, I can not begin to imagine how much worse it had to have been on young males. There was and unfortunately still is a stigma attached to it to this day. What young male wanted anyone to find out what was being done to him? Back then he would have immediately been judged and called horrible names. It's sad to think that these boys not only lost their innocence of being children, but have also lost the majority of their lives. I agree that they had to be punished, but I honestly don't think that they should have been given life sentences...they will always have those life sentence mentally from the abuse they endured..

 

[Chimera]

I don't believe anything regarding sexual abuse coming out of their mouths.

It's so circumstantial and imo could have been suggested to one or both Erik and Lyle.

Even IF it happened... they had other options than murder.
Take the dad or both parents to court and sue them & press charges.
Jose and Kitty deserved their day in court.
The other people who allegedly knew what was going on could have reported the parents to LE.
Maybe even intervened to have the boys put into foster care if they knew something from E. and L.'s earlier days ?
Their silence speaks volumes.
Omo.

 

[CrimeJunkie82]

I understand the tendency to assume that there was no public awareness, acceptance, or prosecution based on boys that were abused by men in 1989. That simply is not true. I've included some links about the Mount Cashel orphanage, where many boys were abused by men. Oprah Winfrey reported on the abuse of boys by men in 1989.

In 1975, the investigation into the sexual abuse of boys was quashed by the Justice Department. Fourteen years later, the Justice Department stepped out of the way. To get a sense of the global climate regarding the abuse of boys by men in 1989, read about Mount Cashel.

It was international news. If Lyle and Eric were abused as boys, they would have read about Mt. Cashel abuse in February, 1989. They should have told that story from the beginning in August 1989, rather than running with the hit-man theory. Global, public sympathy was in place for boys abused by their male parent or caregiver. What was their reason for not reporting their parents to the authorities?

"Shane Earle, whose lawsuit against the Mount Cashel Orphanage in St. John's over physical and sexual abuse during the mid-1970s led to a public inquiry, drew wider attention to the case with a 1989 appearance on Oprah Winfrey's show."

Oprah Winfrey’s talk show affected Canadian scandal, literature and activism

The final week of "The Oprah Winfrey Show" has inspired nostalgia about how the Chicago-based host influenced daytime television programming. And with more than 5,000 episodes behind her, in a 25-year run that comes to an end next week, the … <a...

ca.news.yahoo.com

"The document, released Friday, is the latest step in a saga that started in 1987 with charges against one priest and would expand to a series of scandals that closed the Mount Cashel orphanage in St. John's and recently forced the Roman Catholic Episcopal Corp. to sell churches and other property to settle claims.
...

The Mount Cashel scandal exploded in 1989, and included reports of how a 1975 police investigation was quashed by the provincial Justice Department. The Hughes inquiry, ordered by the Newfoundland and Labrador government, found numerous failings in the child protection system.
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/newfoundland-labrador/church-mount-cashel-settlement-1.7255755

"On 15 February 1989, the Royal Newfoundland Constabulary re-opened its 1975 investigation into allegations of child abuse at the Mount Cashel Boys' Home (popularly known as the Mount Cashel Orphanage) in St. John's."
Mount Cashel Orphanage Abuse Scandal

An examination of the events surrounding the Mount Cashel Orphanage abuse scandal that occured at the Mount Cashel Boy's Home in St. John's.

www.heritage.nf.ca

The reason for not reporting it are simple. Their dad had influence, money, and power. They knew that due to those reasons alone that absolutely nothing would stick as far as charges went and once their dad found out they had reported him, then things at life would become absolutely more unbarable for them. Add that to the stigma of them being young boys who had been sexually abused being called horrible names on top of everything else and you have your reasons...

 

[otto]

The reason for not reporting it are simple. Their dad had influence, money, and power. They knew that due to those reasons alone that absolutely nothing would stick as far as charges went and once their dad found out they had reported him, then things at life would become absolutely more unbarable for them. Add that to the stigma of them being young boys who had been sexually abused being called horrible names on top of everything else and you have your reasons...

Oprah was talking about sexual abuse of boys in 1989, and everyone watched Oprah. The Menendez murderers, who were adults at the time of the murders, could have phoned up Oprah with the story about the Hollywood executive with RCA records who was allegedly a pedophile ... no one would have doubted them.

 

[CHEL]

Sources Tell VF the Menendez Brothers May Be Headed for Freedom

Erik and Lyle’s extended family are said to be gathering for a press conference at an LA courthouse on Wednesday. They hope DA George Gascón will recommend resentencing.

www.vanityfair.com

 

[Chimera]

Menendez brothers could be free within weeks

The Menendez brothers could soon walk free from prison after more than 30 years behind bars.

www.dailymail.co.uk

The Menendez brothers could soon walk free from prison after more than 30 years behind bars.

A press conference will be held in Los Angeles on Wednesday where the state is expected to announce a significant development in the case against Erik and Lyle.

LA County district attorney George Gascón has personally invited some of the brothers' relatives to attend the press conference, Vanity Fair reported.

The family are reportedly hopeful the DA is considering asking for a revised sentence which could see the brothers, now aged 53 and 56, walk free from custody.
Rbm.

After more than 30 years, why didn't the brothers share this new development before now ?
Are they going to say someone else was involved ?

This crime was cold and vicious.
They were old enough to go to the authorities.
Other people have been abused and killed no one.
Etc.

For anyone who thinks they're innocent and now are no longer a danger to the public --- would they want either brother to live in their house ?
I wouldn't.
Omo.

 

[Teche]

I dont think you understand what happens to children who ate bullied and abused by both of their parents. And the deep long lasting trauma it causes

They also could have killed themselves.

Did they do the right thing? No…
Were they abused. Quite possibly.

My mum
Abused me for many years and ppl reported her and the school tried to help. But i was too scared to tell the truth. I had to to home to her every day. I was physically and verbally abused every day i was with her.
I havent murdered her. But i have so many issues. Even tho i deint live with my dad i had a loving father, who when found out took me out.

Maybe the parents were kind and loving. I highly doubt it. But if those boys were abused even 5% of what they have said, then i truly feel for them. No child should be abused ever.

Thank you for sharing. I can't imagine what you experienced as a child. Thankfully, your father rescued you. Hugs.

 

[Chimera]

Bombshell new evidence in Menendez brothers case revealed

New evidence has been revealed in the shocking Menendez murder case by the LA County District Attorney, ahead of a case review that could lead to a potential resentencing.

www.dailymail.co.uk

Los Angeles District Attorney George Gascón publicly posted a screenshot to Instagram of the letter written by Erik Menendez to his cousin, Andy Cano, in which he alludes to serious, and long-term, abuse at the hands of his father Jose.
The letter, first revealed by DailyMail.com, was written eight months before they killed their parents.
It comes as the Menendez family are set to host a press conference in Los Angeles today, where celebrities including Rosie O'Donnell are set to speak in 'a powerful show of unity' for the brothers.
Rbm.

Questions :
Why was this withheld until now ?
Was the letter verified to be factual ?
Or are we to assume it is legit.

If it was written fairly soon before the murders, why didn't they both leave ?
They weren't being held captive, and had been doing some burglaries before this time, and also had driven to the house to shoot Jose and Kitty, so they'd been elsewhere that day.

It's unsettling and disturbing, imo, that Erik and Lyle are now seemingly being promoted as victims and not killers.
Omo.

 

[otto]

Bombshell new evidence in Menendez brothers case revealed

New evidence has been revealed in the shocking Menendez murder case by the LA County District Attorney, ahead of a case review that could lead to a potential resentencing.

www.dailymail.co.uk

Los Angeles District Attorney George Gascón publicly posted a screenshot to Instagram of the letter written by Erik Menendez to his cousin, Andy Cano, in which he alludes to serious, and long-term, abuse at the hands of his father Jose.
The letter, first revealed by DailyMail.com, was written eight months before they killed their parents.
It comes as the Menendez family are set to host a press conference in Los Angeles today, where celebrities including Rosie O'Donnell are set to speak in 'a powerful show of unity' for the brothers.
Rbm.

Questions :
Why was this withheld until now ?
Was the letter verified to be factual ?
Or are we to assume it is legit.

If it was written fairly soon before the murders, why didn't they both leave ?
They weren't being held captive, and had been doing some burglaries before this time, and also had driven to the house to shoot Jose and Kitty, so they'd been elsewhere that day.

It's unsettling and disturbing, imo, that Erik and Lyle are now seemingly being promoted as victims and not killers.
Omo.

I'm curious - is the letter in an envelope with a post-mark, or is it a piece of paper with no proof as to when it was written?

 

[CHEL]

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[Lolly63]

It is very difficult to get away from an abuser. Abusers manipulate and just because they were adults doesn’t make it any easier.
The brothers didn’t even have the understanding of their mother. I believe they have served enough time. Their innocent childhoods were taken away from them and all their adult lives in jail. They have been punished for their crimes.

 

[otto]

Family appeals are based on the premise that, in the 1990s, no one understood or believed the abuse of boys by men. In 1989 (linked upthread) Oprah did a show (with victim interview) about the sexual abuse of boys by adult males. In 1989 Canada, the Mount Cashel Orphanage abuse of boys was all over the news - continuing for years. In my opinion, the premise is unfounded.

"Two young boys" is repeated often. The Menendez murderers were age 18 and 21. So often, adults are portrayed as children to encourage sympathy. Two men shot their parents 15 times, with the final shots point-blank to the head. Then those men went on a $700,000 spending spree - spending their father's money on chauffeurs, body guards, a porsche, rolex, house purchase, restaurant purchase, new clothes, international travel, and the good life.

The murders occurred on August 20, 1989. They were arrested on March 8, 1990. They spent $100,000 per month between murders and arrest. That is the same as spending $250,000 per month of today's money. Lyle and Erik spent the equivalent of $1.8 million of today's money in 7 months. Yet, we should believe that money was not a motive.

What if, as Geragos suggests, we consider that two young men shot their wealthy parents 15 times today? What if those two men said they did it because their parents abused them when they were children? What if the murderers then spent $1.8 million of their parents' money on luxury items in the 7 months after the murders. Would they be viewed as victims, or greedy murderers?

If Geragos wants the facts of the case to be considered today, then all the facts should be considered, and not limited to the unproven allegations of sexual abuse.

 

[arielilane]

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[arielilane]

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[otto]

Not all relatives want to see the murderers released from prison. The victims are Kitty and Jose Menendez.

"Meanwhile, Milton Andersen, brother of Kitty Menendez, has criticized Gascón's recent handling of the case through a statement released Wednesday by his attorney, Kathy Cady. Andersen believes his nephews should remain in prison, according to the statement."

Menendez brothers' family members call for their release as DA weighs resentencing: "They were just children"

Several family members of Lyle and Erik Menendez pleaded Wednesday for the release of the brothers, convicted of murdering their parents decades earlier, saying they suffered "horrific" sexual and physical abuse as children.

www.cbsnews.com

 

[Incredholt]

Los Angeles County District Attorney George Gascón said Wednesday a decision on the case of Lyle and Erik Menendez could be coming in days…

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[otto]

I'm also curious about the notion that Lyle and Erik have been rehabilitated, therefore they should be released from prison.

I understood the USA justice system to be punitive rather than rehabilitative - thus the death penalty and life-time sentences. Is California going against the trend, or is the notion of rehabilitation as justification for early release something that Geragos is promoting?

 

[LayzeeDayzee]

What if, as Geragos suggests, we consider that two young men shot their wealthy parents 15 times today? What if those two men said they did it because their parents abused them when they were children? What if the murderers then spent $1.8 million of their parents' money on luxury items in the 7 months after the murders. Would they be viewed as victims, or greedy murderers?

If Geragos wants the facts of the case to be considered today, then all the facts should be considered, and not limited to the unproven allegations of sexual abuse.

I know my opinion won't be popular but I don't believe these brothers. I also don't believe that they had no choice, out of urgent fear for their lives, but to kill their parents. I have watched all of the documentaries. I have watched all of the interviews with them. IMO these were and remain 2 very sharp and calculated murderers. Their hefty long spending spree following the murders speaks volumes to me. In the interviews I've seen of them, and them on the stand in court, I can't help but feel like they are really good actors. I feel like they planned these murders for quite some time before they carried them out. If they killed their parents because, in their hearts they felt it was justified because of years of alleged abuse, then why did they not just admit they did it? Why did they try to say it was probably the Mafia who did it? I don't know, I have just never had a good feeling about them and I've always found it incredibly creepy that they found women who would actually marry them in prison....one with a daughter, no less.

Over the years when people have asked them if they "just did it for the money" they respond by saying essentially that that's crazy, that they would have already inherited all of their parents' wealth. I disagree. Just because you're someone's child doesn't mean you would automatically be left their fortune. A wealthy parent can easily have a will drawn up clearly stating that nothing or little is left to their children, or they can leave it all to charity, or a family friend, etc.

What has prompted this sudden discussion about these 2 brothers recently? Is it only the Menudo dude alleging that he was SA'd by the Dad years ago?...or is there something more to it?

 

[LayzeeDayzee]

Also, if family members of the brothers are claiming they suffered physical and sexual abuse as children, that they've been rehabilitated and deserve to be let out, why did these same family members never come forth during the boys' childhoods to report such abuse? So they all just stood silently by and said and did nothing? Reported nothing? I can't imagine having strong reason to believe that minor children family members are being horrifically abused like this and sitting back and keeping quiet about it. Also, how can it be said that they've been rehabilitated? How so? What kind of "rehabilitation" takes place in prison for cold-blooded murderers? Just because you're in prison for several decades that isn't synonymous with "rehabilitated." And if you let them out, then I guess you better let tons of other prisoners out who have served 3 or more decades and consider them "rehabilitated" as well, no?