GUILTY CA - Erin Corwin, 19, pregnant, Twentynine Palms, 28 June 2014 - #6

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  • #461
Not sure how much property the ranch has, but in many states it is illegal to bury livestock on less than 100 acres. When that is the case, many people choose to instead burn the carcass. Some will burn regardless of the size of the property, not wanting coyote and the like digging it up...

After looking at the ranch property on Google Maps, and a real estate listing site, I don't think it's big enough to do either of those things without neighbors noticing. The entire property is only 5 acres, and most of that is one big fenced in area, with the horses roaming around, and a few storage buildings, walk in sheds for the horses, etc. This isn't a property where you could drive over the hill and dig a grave, or build a fire to get rid of a body with little risk of it being seen. There might be some shed or tack room that isn't being used or something but even that seems risky to me.

https://www.google.com/maps/place/733+Geronimo+Trail,+Yucca+Valley,+CA+92284/@34.239057,-116.449469,112m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m7!1m4!3m3!1s0x80db2a447cf73065:0x820ed0d298d452e3!2s733+Geronimo+Trail,+Yucca+Valley,+CA+92284!3b1!3m1!1s0x80db2a447cf73065:0x820ed0d298d452e3

http://www.homesnap.com/CA/Yucca-Valley/733-Geronimo-Trail
 
  • #462
Just a guess (currently, as I change my mind often), I suspect that LE thinks one or both of them committed a crime, but until they can get a better handle on which one(s) are guilty, they can't make any arrest(s).



At this point, given the CONFESSION (?) (was it?) that NL gave to the woman at the horse ranch, I move that the L couple be arrested. Alternatively, LE could give one of them immunity to testify against the other. Wonder which one will squeal first?!
This is all pure speculation on my part; opinion only!
 
  • #463
  • #464
I hope those shells are not a red herring.

Respectfully snipped.

I've always thought the shell casings were a red herring. As others have mentioned, policing your brass is standard. Many people reload brass. Others save brass for artist friends. Shell casings are pretty hot in found object jewelry right now. They can be used for simple pin mechanisms and in design. If he got rid of the gun, he'd get rid of the shell casings. Besides, 10 rounds of a .40? That's overkill even for a crime of passion.

Also, spent casings have SO MUCH forensic information. If there is any record of the gun being fired and the characteristics being documented, this could be almost as much of a smoking gun as the actual gun. And an Alaskan and a Marine would know that.
 
  • #465
After looking at the ranch property on Google Maps, and a real estate listing site, I don't think it's big enough to do either of those things without neighbors noticing. The entire property is only 5 acres, and most of that is one big fenced in area, with the horses roaming around, and a few storage buildings, walk in sheds for the horses, etc. This isn't a property where you could drive over the hill and dig a grave, or build a fire to get rid of a body with little risk of it being seen. There might be some shed or tack room that isn't being used or something but even that seems risky to me.

https://www.google.com/maps/place/733+Geronimo+Trail,+Yucca+Valley,+CA+92284/@34.239057,-116.449469,112m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m7!1m4!3m3!1s0x80db2a447cf73065:0x820ed0d298d452e3!2s733+Geronimo+Trail,+Yucca+Valley,+CA+92284!3b1!3m1!1s0x80db2a447cf73065:0x820ed0d298d452e3

http://www.homesnap.com/CA/Yucca-Valley/733-Geronimo-Trail

I think the ranch encompasses more property than 733. The probable cause document lists IM as being the owner of both 733 and 788 Geronimo Trail so she clearly owns more than just 733. Still this is only 10 acres with the two properties but she could own more.
 
  • #466
Hunting is also done immediately outside the boundaries of JTNP. Coyote are also hunted.

Aerosmith :applause:

I was just reading up on Joshua Tree and Hunting. Chime in if you have any park/hunting info...

So far I found that;
There is no hunting allowed in Joshua Tree Park. Hunting is done 2 hours away in the Mojave National Preserve.
The victim told her friend she was going hunting '2 hours away'.
As far as I can tell, the current hunting season is rabbit. ("The rabbit done died..." -aerosmith)


http://www.nps.gov/moja/planyourvisit/hunting.htm
https://www.google.com/maps/dir/Twe...a6d6ddf9ae18a7a!2m2!1d-115.473355!2d35.010991

sleuthing the maps is difficult because large areas are blacked out for the US Marine Base. Twentynine Palms is where they go for training.
 
  • #467
That's an hour minimum away, with lots of flat, open land where you can see pretty far. Also, more traffic and people...they actually have events out there so it's far more risky that east of 29 Palms.

Ah, thanks! I was drawn to it because he drives a jeep. I noticed abandoned buildings covered in graffiti so I figured it would be a great place to hide a body. But an hour away may be too far. I feel like he did it quickly and soon after picking her up. I think his wife knows where as well.
 
  • #468
Yes, I see what you are saying. But as far as I know, some of the stuff you are saying about JC is just "assumed" also. I haven't heard anything that says the Corwin's only had one car- for sure. Who knows, it's just as likely they also had a car. Or he could have had a gf and borrowed her car.
I haven't heard anything about the base cameras showing that Jon never left the base that day.

Yes, it does seem like the LE focused in on CL early. Then they let him go. Then they announced he is not a POI. I haven't read any other official documents that show in details other witnesses they've talked to, other places they've searched, other items they've tested, and other witnesses that may have made "iffy" statements. I haven't read about the any of the Corwin's stuff that was searched or any of the interviews that were done with the husband or any other friends that lived around them. Actually, I don't remember hearing a whole lot from JC at all.

As far as NL's statement go- Yeah. I don't put that much stock in it really. She probably disliked EC a lot. She very well could just be a bitter wife that could care less what happened to EC. IMO.

You're right about this case being very much like other cases. Unfortunately, it's usually the person closest to them.

Again, I understand 100% where you are coming from. I am not trying to argue or have a different opinion just to ruffle feathers. I have followed so many cases, and so many times I've seen everybody convinced of one thing- and they are absolutely heartbroken to find out different. You are probably about 99.5 % right on who hurt EC. From what we all know so far, that is the direction it looks like it is going. It's that .5% that worries me. The unknowns.

BTW- I do NOT know any of these people involved in this story at all.

As always, just my opinion.

I believe if they had a second car that would have also been one of the vehicles searched when the SWs were gotten. It just makes sense if they had another vehicle it would have been included...just like their apartment was searched which is SOP.

No, we haven't heard what the base footage revealed and will not since this is an ongoing investigations but we do know the Marine Corps turned over the base footage during the timeline LE is interested in. So, imo, there is no footage of Jon leaving the base and that is why he has never been named as a POI or suspect. When the radio station got the first scoop on this they said when LE interviewed CL his story was filled with inconsistencies. Imo, Jon's statements to police was consistent.

We cant assume that Jon borrowed a car either when there is nothing to support that.

May I ask why you think Jon did this and not the Lees?

I don't think they announced that CL wasn't a POI. It is obvious he is by all the investigating of the Lees that has been done but they said iirc they have no POI or suspects at this time. That is what they usually always say publicly. I have been reading cases like this for over 30 years and you can practically count on one hand when the police have come out and ruled anyone out specifically by name to the media. They will continue to say they don't have a POI or suspect until the time a suspect is actually arrested. Then by default everyone else is ruled out technically.

That is not necessarily true that it must be the closest to someone. Approximately 3500 females are murdered each year less than 1/3 is killed by their SO.

In cases where the victim has been kidnapped (missing) and murdered (yes the suspect would be guilty of that too if he held her against her will at anytime threatening to do her bodily harm) it is often someone known to the victim. Its not necessarily the closest to the victim but someone who knew them and that includes lovers the victims may have had. They have been known to murder their lovers many times. Unfortunately this isn't something new. It not even new in all branches of the military.

I know you aren't trying to argue with anyone and you certainly have as much right as anyone to voice your opinion. I respect your opinion and everyone's. I certainly understand what you mean about others being so sure about a suspect and then it turned out not to be them. Many, many times I have been in the teeny tiny minority who felt who everyone suspected was not the real suspect. Those cases though mostly involved accusing parents or a family member of murdering their child or children. I took my stand with each of those case and never had to regret it not even once.

However; to me in THIS case I do not see Jon as a perpetrator against Erin. I base this belief on all that is known about the case up to now. Imo, there just isn't thing pointing to him.

We also have to remember in so many cases the police were spot on too and knew who the suspect(s) was very early on. I believe this is the case here. They know the Lees are the ones involved. They also know like in many other cases to bring about an arrest they must have evidence to prove the case in court BARD and not just probable cause. The Lees are the LE's sole targets, imo. Hopefully like in other cases even though it may take some time to amass evidence against them they will be arrested someday for what happened to Erin.

Thank you for your reply.
 
  • #469
http://www.wunderground.com/history...tml?req_city=NA&req_state=NA&req_statename=NA

At this link you can mess around putting different dates and locations in to look at weather history.
The link has 29 Palms Airport (I hope) for the date of July 5 and shows thunderstorms many times throughout the 24 period on the date. Yet, the amount of rain isn't recorded.
Where I live, rainfall is recorded by noting inches. But even here rain can flood one area while five miles away, no damage.
 
  • #470
And the POI quickly packs up and moves to Alaska!?


"Nicole told Isabella that without a body the detectives did not have a case against them and the detectives would never find the body,” the affidavit stated.

Nicole also said investigators had searched her residence but missed something because they didn’t go through the garage.

She also “berated Lee in front of Isabella about not being able to keep his lies straight when he was interviewed by detectives because he was dumb.”

Nicole and Lee had been storing belongings, including a firearm, at the ranch in preparation for a move to Alaska, the affidavit stated."
http://ktla.com/2014/07/22/missing-...ith-the-day-she-went-missing-court-documents/
 
  • #471
I just don't believe any woman would be hanging out with the woman their husband cheated on them with

...keep friends close, enemies closer. maybe she knew of what was planned? maybe she "faked" being nice to Erin to keep tabs on her
 
  • #472
B) Or, something happened to Erin earlier before 7:00 a.m. because of JC uncovering Erin's plan to meet CL. Another theory I've wondered about especially if Erin didn't show up like C claimed. Goodnight - hope post makes sense, can't even see straight.

BBM. Trying to catch on on the thread...But I hadn't heard that CL claimed that Erin didn't show up for a meeting? Seems kinda damning to me. Especially if they have Erin leaving base on camera.

Mel.
 
  • #473
Even though I know LE usually says there are no POI/Suspects, in this case iirc, what LE has said is that the Lee's have not been named as POI/Suspects. They never said they weren't POI/Suspects.
 
  • #474
Have I missed something? I thought the texts indicated they were going on a day trip together, 2 hours away, to celebrate the pregnancy. I thought it was supposed to be some kind of romantic "surprise". Did Erin also say she was going hunting?

yes, I believe the text said they were going hunting
 
  • #475
Hunting is also done immediately outside the boundaries of JTNP. Coyote are also hunted.

Aerosmith :applause:

Just logged in. o/t - why Aerosmith? Last week I called my bro to tell him I just heard they will be performing not too far away (but far enough) tomorrow (I think). We talk about music a lot (bonding with my younger brother). Later he calls me back to say thanks for the tip and that he bought cheap seats (cuz it was cheap or $$$$$). He said he was taking "V". :shame: I said, "what?" He said, "Why, do you want to go, I'll get another ticket." LOL! Such a good guy, but the logistics are too difficult for me at this time anyway - boo.

:gaah: Thanks for bringing the subject up. :slap:
 
  • #476
...keep friends close, enemies closer. maybe she knew of what was planned? maybe she "faked" being nice to Erin to keep tabs on her

There is also the possibility that NL knew all along. I will not get into scenarios in which this could happen, because I don't think discussing proclivities and indoor sports interests are proper when it may have no bearing on the case and the person/people aren't involved in the conversation. But, I will say that people only know the image people portray. We don't know what went on behind closed doors in any of these relationships.


This is in NO WAY derogatory to any of the people involved. What people do when the lights go down, as far as I'm concerned, is their business, until someone gets hurt.
 
  • #477
Yes, I see what you are saying. But as far as I know, some of the stuff you are saying about JC is just "assumed" also. I haven't heard anything that says the Corwin's only had one car- for sure. Who knows, it's just as likely they also had a car. Or he could have had a gf and borrowed her car.
I haven't heard anything about the base cameras showing that Jon never left the base that day.

Yes, it does seem like the LE focused in on CL early. Then they let him go. Then they announced he is not a POI. I haven't read any other official documents that show in details other witnesses they've talked to, other places they've searched, other items they've tested, and other witnesses that may have made "iffy" statements. I haven't read about the any of the Corwin's stuff that was searched or any of the interviews that were done with the husband or any other friends that lived around them. Actually, I don't remember hearing a whole lot from JC at all.

As far as NL's statement go- Yeah. I don't put that much stock in it really. She probably disliked EC a lot. She very well could just be a bitter wife that could care less what happened to EC. IMO.

You're right about this case being very much like other cases. Unfortunately, it's usually the person closest to them.

Again, I understand 100% where you are coming from. I am not trying to argue or have a different opinion just to ruffle feathers. I have followed so many cases, and so many times I've seen everybody convinced of one thing- and they are absolutely heartbroken to find out different. You are probably about 99.5 % right on who hurt EC. From what we all know so far, that is the direction it looks like it is going. It's that .5% that worries me. The unknowns.

BTW- I do NOT know any of these people involved in this story at all.

As always, just my opinion.

I agree that in these types of cases we almost always find out the woman's death/disappearance was caused by her husband. Almost always. But there are a whole lot of cases where the disappearance/death is at the hands of her lover, or her jilted lover. So that really means most of these types of cases involve intimate partners of a variety of legal relationships to the victim.

Then we have Whitney Heichel's case... a neighbor.

I know that LE aren't always 'right' in their actions or assumptions. We only have a slew of stories about police misconduct in the news every day to know that, at the end of the day, they are quite human and fail like the rest of us.

But in this case, they have more facts than we do. They've spoken to all of these key players, most likely multiple times. And since they do know at least what we know in terms of the vast majority of these types of crimes being perpetrated by intimate partners, I feel confident in accepting that they've looked - and questioned and investigated and fact-checked - every bit of information about or that has come from JC. And if they found or heard or saw anything hinky, they'd be all over it.

At this point I see JC as a victim. I feel badly for him for the double-whammy he's getting of his wife being missing AND knowing, like we all do, that he's prime candidate for being suspect #1.

I just don't believe that investigators would have gone to the lengths they've gone to in investigating CL if they didn't have good reason to do so. And at the same time, they haven't had good reason to similarly investigate JC.

That's all. I don't want to make it personal, so please don't feel like I'm attacking. It's frustrating how little information has been released, because I do believe they have so much more than we are able to see, and that makes it difficult for us to do anything more than speculate. I, too, really thought it would be JC at first, I just think now with his young age and all the time that has passed, if he did it, it would become obvious. Scott Peterson, for example, couldn't hold his s%@& together for this long, and he was much older and presumably, a more experienced liar under pressure. So, I don't know. I would imagine a 20 yo kid under such intense scrutiny from both the military AND the police AND the family AND the general public would start to crack a bit. IMO, JMO.
 
  • #478
I think the ranch encompasses more property than 733. The probable cause document lists IM as being the owner of both 733 and 788 Geronimo Trail so she clearly owns more than just 733. Still this is only 10 acres with the two properties but she could own more.

There are three separate parcels in IM's name. Not going to post details here, click on name search and enter her last name only ...
http://www.sbcounty.gov/assessor/pims/(S(mitajckoap0h3usz0zpnas05))/PIMSINTERFACE.ASPX
 
  • #479
Respectfully snipped.

I've always thought the shell casings were a red herring. As others have mentioned, policing your brass is standard. Many people reload brass. Others save brass for artist friends. Shell casings are pretty hot in found object jewelry right now. They can be used for simple pin mechanisms and in design. If he got rid of the gun, he'd get rid of the shell casings. Besides, 10 rounds of a .40? That's overkill even for a crime of passion.

Also, spent casings have SO MUCH forensic information. If there is any record of the gun being fired and the characteristics being documented, this could be almost as much of a smoking gun as the actual gun. And an Alaskan and a Marine would know that.

I know when I bought my handgun, it came with a "dummy" bullet that had the "fingerprint" of the inside of the gun on it. When I registered the gun, they took the bullet and said it goes into a police database for ballistic purposes in the event of a crime. Older guns likely wouldn't have this though
 
  • #480
Something that bothers me (sorry if it has already been brought up). Why did no one black out the name of the 13 year old girl in the statement of probable cause? It seems like it would fall on both LE and the media's shoulder's to do so, and I find it unnerving that they didn't.

https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/1225468-1765-001.html
 
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