Found Deceased CA - Fang Jin, 47, flew to LA from China, train to Palm Springs, Morongo Basin, 21 Jul 2023, w/ John Root Fitzpatrick, 55, (fnd dec.), 30 Jul ‘23 #3

[10ofRods]

Just bringing up the Mickey Guidry case that happened in this exact area back in 2009. I know someone posted about it previously. He stole his parents Jeep Grand Cherokee and went to visit friends camping near HWY 78 in Ocotillo Wells. The Jeep was found badly damaged, not drivable, and abandoned with his belongings in it. It is believed he went off-road up Fish Creek Wash and the Jeep finally became inoperable in the Harper Flat area where it was left stuck. The front bumper was torn off, rear spare tire cover fell off, and one of the tires had shredded to the rim and was sunk into the sand. His mom posted the below map showing where the Jeep was found, and some other items that had fallen off the Jeep. All in the same area as JRF truck may have been. No trace of him was ever found until 4/2022, 13 years later, despite numerous searches when he disappeared. Hikers found his clothes/shoes around the entrance of Harper Canyon, very close to where JRF was found. They believed when he got lost and stuck, he was heading into Harper Canyon trying to get back to HWY 78. He never made it and has been missing since, with no remains recovered. Looking at the map for his case and this case shows many similarities. All coincidence, but maybe further searches in this area can hopefully turn up more evidence for both cases.

Bless you for bringing this up. Like you, I always go back through all the other deaths/misadventures/murders/mishaps in an area. The damage to his car is so interesting. While water could be one reason, reckless driving over boulder-strewn "roads" during off-roading attempts is possible as well but, to me, far less likely.

Someone driving like an angry/crazy person through some of those roads/washes is going to damage their car. (Or someone driving like a geologist, but that's just me digressing).

It was amazing that his belongings were found and I keep thinking about that. JRF died in such a way (and near his vehicle and apparently with ID somewhere around) that he was readily identified.

Since JRF was found, I've been guessing that Guidry's remains might well have washed down the same gully/canyon. Not it appears that perhaps both men were trying to get back to the 78.

I spent more than half my life studying the Everett Reuss case (Utah), and still can't believe that one was solved. Went up there, tried to follow his route and look around, I was immediately overwhelmed on every possible level. But he was found.

It's possible that both JRF and JF ran into similar hazards and miseries up there. Sadly. Tough country. Imagine how badly a person would feel if they took someone else into such an environment and things went wrong.

IMO.

 

[megs1477]

This was brought up earlier but I think may have been lost in some of the back-and-forth discussion.

In addition to Pinyon Wash which is on the northeast of Harper Flat, there's also Pinyon Mountain Road which lies to the south. It's a one-way 4x4 trail, that is considered to be a challenging drive. Especially the section known as Pinyon Drop-off, aka Heart Attack Hill. Here's the best map I could find of the road and surrounding area.
View attachment 456544

I wonder if JRF tried driving down this road and something went wrong. Later rains could have washed the truck into the wash and JRF's body into Harper Canyon. Or maybe it's even possible that the truck was found near Pinyon Drop-off, not Pinyon Wash, but the similar names gave rise to confusion over its location. (I know some reporting mentioned the truck was found in Harper Flat.)

There is no date on this site, but it specifically notes the difficulty of each road and that "the squeeze" to "heart attack hill" were impassable. I am not sure where that is exactly, but it is my understanding it is near Harper Flat.

All roads

borregohiking.com

 

[sfinkz]

Honestly tho...if the situation was reversed and we found her body and not his... We'd feel 100% that he murdered her and was on the run. Has anyone considered that the opposite happened? Admittedly there is nothing to suggest this...but I just wanted to mention the perhaps double standard. IMO we are certainly looking at a murder suicide. Hope they find her soon. She seemed like a great person.

I wholeheartedly agree. Also alternatively, if JRF had journeyed to China—which, according to family sources of the latest media update this week (‘Hi-Desert Star’), he was deceptive about, knowing his criminal record would have precluded it—this case probably would have never occurred and if it did would have been long-solved already.

 

[10ofRods]

Good point.

Also, I've forgotten when it was that LE actually announced they were searching for JF, JRF and JRF's blue truck. If nobody knew to be on the lookout for it, they probably wouldn't report seeing it.

Did they ever announce that they were searching? I mean, they entered them into NAMUS as voluntarily missing. Very few news outlets picked that up. There were no organized searches that we know of (because the voluntarily missing don't get big searches?)

LE must have known right away that something was amiss and no need for a BOLO. The only place the truck was mentioned was in NAMUS. Only a couple of small local papers picked it up.

The blue truck is mentioned in NAMUS. NAMUS is not something most people read every day. There was minor local media coverage, but hardly anyone reads local news or watches it. I didn't learn it was a blue Tacoma until about week 2. At which point, I started seeing blue Tacomas of that year every time I drove anywhere (I live 150 miles away). Most people do not memorize the vehicle information of missing persons, even if they do read a brief article.

People who spend a lot of time in desert country, hiking and scrambling, are probably less likely than I am to follow such news.

IMO.

 

[ch_13]

There is no date on this site, but it specifically notes the difficulty of each road and that "the squeeze" to "heart attack hill" were impassable. I am not sure where that is exactly, but it is my understanding it is near Harper Flat.

All roads

borregohiking.com

Is this note what you are referring to?
Black: More difficult road, but I drove them, at a certain date, in a Subaru Forester or RAV 4. The only black road we were unable to drive: From The Squeeze to Heart Attack hill.

I don't think the author is saying the road is impassible, as it's a popular 4x4 trail. Here's a video of someone doing it that was uploaded in May:

Searching on TikTok brings up many more videos: heart attack hill pinyon mountain｜TikTok Search

I think the author is saying that he couldn't do the drive in a normal, unmodified SUV, like a Forester/RAV4. Could you run the trail in a stock Toyota Tacoma? I tend to doubt it, but it's possible that JRF thought he could and erred.

 

[megs1477]

I wholeheartedly agree. Also alternatively, if JRF had journeyed to China—which, according to family sources of the latest media update this week (‘Hi-Desert Star’), he was deceptive about, knowing his criminal record would have precluded it—this case probably would have never occurred and if it did would have been long-solved already.

This is incorrect. The HDS has falsely reported information related to his criminal record since the start of the investigation. They do not seem to understand the legal process and/or are not reading the actual disposition versus the initial charges. JRF has never been convicted of a Felony, which is what would prevent him from obtaining a visa. Having an open case could have caused issues, but his case was closed this past April. After that point, he should not be prevented from obtaining a Tourist Visa because of the singular misdemeanor conviction. His military service and the detailed information required would likely be more of a hindrance.

China Visa Application and Requirements | A Briggs

The government of China requires that travelers have a visa to enter. Find out if you meet the visa requirements and submit a Chinese visa application today.

abriggs.com

Exit and Entry Administration Law of the People's Republic of China - Wikisource, the free online library

en.wikisource.org

 

[megs1477]

I think the author is saying that he couldn't do the drive in a normal, unmodified SUV, like a Forester/RAV4. Could you run the trail in a stock Toyota Tacoma? I tend to doubt it, but it's possible that JRF thought he could and erred.

Sorry, I wasn't very clear. This is exactly the point I was trying to make!! Thank you for the video link tho, very...umm, interesting! The difficulty of the terrain plus less than adequate vehicle plus nighttime trip or inexperienced/over confident driver could easily result in tragedy IMO.

 

[10ofRods]

Is this note what you are referring to?
Black: More difficult road, but I drove them, at a certain date, in a Subaru Forester or RAV 4. The only black road we were unable to drive: From The Squeeze to Heart Attack hill.

I don't think the author is saying the road is impassible, as it's a popular 4x4 trail. Here's a video of someone doing it that was uploaded in May:

Searching on TikTok brings up many more videos: heart attack hill pinyon mountain｜TikTok Search

I think the author is saying that he couldn't do the drive in a normal, unmodified SUV, like a Forester/RAV4. Could you run the trail in a stock Toyota Tacoma? I tend to doubt it, but it's possible that JRF thought he could and erred.

As a long time SUV owner, let me just say that one should gradually work up to a road like that one. I've been stuck and stupid. But not out in a waterless place without cell service and in the highest heat of the year.

Interesting side point: if JRF found showing off his 4WD skills to be important, was that what he was doing? Right now it looks like the truck went up to the point where, normally, one would take a fairly passable road to Harper Flat (but it was blocked by a fence). I don't think there's any evidence that JRF was on Heart Attack Hill (I was thinking so, at first, but now that I know where his body was discovered - thanks to discussions here - that seems unlikely).

However, if JRF (with JF in tow) did attempt something he couldn't handle (wrecked his truck somehow, whatever) then attempting to get back to Highway 78 was crucial. All wilderness survival manuals tell you to NEVER separate from a companion (bring them along with you, no matter how hard that is). Bring LOTS of water (LE says there were no or few supplies in the truck). Bring first aid. Prior training in other environments (with a commander and a support unit as in the Seals) is not the same as solo venturing into Anza Borrego (where people die of misadventure with some regularity, like once every year or two).

But I think a fence blocked JRF from getting to that road. And he got into some kind of trouble anyway, with his truck on a relative flat spot.

Somehow. IMO.

 

[sfinkz]

This is incorrect. The HDS has falsely reported information related to his criminal record since the start of the investigation. They do not seem to understand the legal process and/or are not reading the actual disposition versus the initial charges. JRF has never been convicted of a Felony, which is what would prevent him from obtaining a visa. Having an open case could have caused issues, but his case was closed this past April. After that point, he should not be prevented from obtaining a Tourist Visa because of the singular misdemeanor conviction. His military service and the detailed information required would likely be more of a hindrance.

China Visa Application and Requirements | A Briggs

The government of China requires that travelers have a visa to enter. Find out if you meet the visa requirements and submit a Chinese visa application today.

abriggs.com

Exit and Entry Administration Law of the People's Republic of China - Wikisource, the free online library

en.wikisource.org

Only quoting source in approved MSM. Seems JRF was encouraged to be the gentleman (according to the source) and endure the journey for initial encounter.
Apparently, he balked. Military hindrance IYO.
Not being in total control in MOO.
Also IMOO, the perception/reality of this case as military hero/wounded warrior lies at the heart.

 

[Interested_But_Confused]

What I find puzzling is the fact that the case is STILL sealed. I could understand LE not wanting to spook a suspect, and I understand the sensitive nature of the case given JF's status as a foreign visitor.

But if LE found anything in JRF's trailer, they've probably had a pretty good idea what happened for some time. If they consider JRF a suspect, he's dead and can't exactly run away. The only thing they obviously haven't found is JF herself, and whilst finding her should be a priority, LE could still announce what they believe happened.

The case still being sealed makes me wonder if LE either DON'T know what happened, or perhaps think there might be third-party involvement.

 

[patternsfinder]

Is this note what you are referring to?
Black: More difficult road, but I drove them, at a certain date, in a Subaru Forester or RAV 4. The only black road we were unable to drive: From The Squeeze to Heart Attack hill.

I don't think the author is saying the road is impassible, as it's a popular 4x4 trail. Here's a video of someone doing it that was uploaded in May:

Searching on TikTok brings up many more videos: heart attack hill pinyon mountain｜TikTok Search

I think the author is saying that he couldn't do the drive in a normal, unmodified SUV, like a Forester/RAV4. Could you run the trail in a stock Toyota Tacoma? I tend to doubt it, but it's possible that JRF thought he could and erred.

I have no personal idea about this trail and Toyota Tacomas, beyond that a prior video shared on this thread autoplayed into this one, of a Tacoma on Heart Attack Hill.

UPDATE: @ch_13 pointed out that this truck looks lifted, whereas JRF's truck did not. I went back to the youtube video description and @ch_13's guess was correct, the video in this truck is lifted. So this isn't necessarily a good visual for whether JRF's truck could do such a drive.

(From the YouTune video description: "2015 Tacoma doing Heart Attack Hill AKA Pinyon Drop Off. Sway bar was still installed but has since been removed. Had I removed it before this day trip I might still have the passenger side mirror, which was taken off by the Squeeze earlier in the day. Not suspension travel with that damn thing on and Quick Disconnects haven't been developed for this year model yet. So off it went. Drives fine without it, handle way better on the dirt without it too.Front lift is 3", back is 2" with 33" wheels")

 

[acutename]

Bless you for bringing this up. Like you, I always go back through all the other deaths/misadventures/murders/mishaps in an area. The damage to his car is so interesting. While water could be one reason, reckless driving over boulder-strewn "roads" during off-roading attempts is possible as well but, to me, far less likely.

Someone driving like an angry/crazy person through some of those roads/washes is going to damage their car. (Or someone driving like a geologist, but that's just me digressing).

It was amazing that his belongings were found and I keep thinking about that. JRF died in such a way (and near his vehicle and apparently with ID somewhere around) that he was readily identified.

Since JRF was found, I've been guessing that Guidry's remains might well have washed down the same gully/canyon. Not it appears that perhaps both men were trying to get back to the 78.

I spent more than half my life studying the Everett Reuss case (Utah), and still can't believe that one was solved. Went up there, tried to follow his route and look around, I was immediately overwhelmed on every possible level. But he was found.

It's possible that both JRF and JF ran into similar hazards and miseries up there. Sadly. Tough country. Imagine how badly a person would feel if they took someone else into such an environment and things went wrong.

IMO.

I would think that if this situation were solely the result of car problems/Hillary storm, the bodies of JRF and FJ would be close to each other. I realize that he weighed more than her, but I think it is odd that they would be separate. Not sure if that means that she was injured elsewhere. I guess storm wash is unpredictable and she was lighter so wash itself could account for that but ....seems odd to me.

 

[flowershop]

I have no personal idea about this trail and Toyota Tacomas, beyond that a prior video shared on this thread autoplayed into this one, of a Tacoma on Heart Attack Hill.

I didn't understand the terrain involved in this hobby at all until I saw this video and the one shared by @ch_13. This is part of offroading then? I am unfamiliar.

What damages to a vehicle would one expect if one makes an error with this hobby? I felt like this car could easily flip while watching the video.

 

[Interested_But_Confused]

I didn't understand the terrain involved in this hobby at all until I saw this video and the one shared by @ch_13. This is part of offroading then? I am unfamiliar.

What damages to a vehicle would one expect if one makes an error with this hobby? I felt like this car could easily flip while watching the video.

BBM. Pretty much any damage imaginable, but particularly damage to the wheels, suspension, steering, etc. Get it wrong and a vehicle could easily be undriveable.

Attempting such a thing in a vehicle that wasn't designed to handle it is... risky.

 

[ch_13]

I have no personal idea about this trail and Toyota Tacomas, beyond that a prior video shared on this thread autoplayed into this one, of a Tacoma on Heart Attack Hill.

Great find. But I suspect this truck has been modified for off-roading. Looking at the wheel wells and how high the truck sits, it looks like it's been lifted. In other words, the suspension has been altered to increase the vehicle's height. That has the advantage of giving it more clearance underneath.

I doubt that was true of JRF's truck. (Although I don't know for sure.)

 

[Interested_But_Confused]

I would think that if this situation were solely the result of car problems/Hillary storm, the bodies of JRF and FJ would be close to each other. I realize that he weighed more than her, but I think it is odd that they would be separate. Not sure if that means that she was injured elsewhere. I guess storm wash is unpredictable and she was lighter so wash itself could account for that but ....seems odd to me.

My gut feeling is that JRF was higher up on the ridges above Harper Flat, and was washed down by the flood water.

If JF was up there with him, she may have been tangled on something that prevented her from also being washed down; or she may have been washed down even further towards the road; or in the worst case scenario, silt could have buried her and she's right where people have been looking,

 

[acutename]

I didn't understand the terrain involved in this hobby at all until I saw this video and the one shared by @ch_13. This is part of offroading then? I am unfamiliar.

What damages to a vehicle would one expect if one makes an error with this hobby? I felt like this car could easily flip while watching the video.

you may want to read this:

sway bar and axle lock switches

My 2013 Rubicon has a sway bar and axle lock switch. Not much on four wheeling and was wondering if someone could tell me the purposes of these two switches. Chuck:beerme:

www.wranglerforum.com

in the video posted above, they say that they have no sway bar and locked their axles... they talk about it in the comments. In a "regular" low clearance vehicle you would be ripping out the suspension, the oil pan and who knows what else and you would not have any traction. IMO.

 

[flowershop]

My gut feeling is that JRF was higher up on the ridges above Harper Flat, and was washed down by the flood water.

If JF was up there with him, she may have been tangled on something that prevented her from also being washed down; or she may have been washed down even further towards the road; or in the worst case scenario, silt could have buried her and she's right where people have been looking,

Would JF seem agreeable to off roading? Maybe our VI knows her attitude towards this type of thing.

Would a person off road alone?

 

[slowpoke]

This is incorrect. The HDS has falsely reported information related to his criminal record since the start of the investigation. They do not seem to understand the legal process and/or are not reading the actual disposition versus the initial charges. JRF has never been convicted of a Felony, which is what would prevent him from obtaining a visa. Having an open case could have caused issues, but his case was closed this past April. After that point, he should not be prevented from obtaining a Tourist Visa because of the singular misdemeanor conviction. His military service and the detailed information required would likely be more of a hindrance.

China Visa Application and Requirements | A Briggs

The government of China requires that travelers have a visa to enter. Find out if you meet the visa requirements and submit a Chinese visa application today.

abriggs.com

Exit and Entry Administration Law of the People's Republic of China - Wikisource, the free online library

en.wikisource.org

So, it is not true he was on probation?
If he was, the terms can specify that you cannot travel outside of the country.

 

[10ofRods]

I would think that if this situation were solely the result of car problems/Hillary storm, the bodies of JRF and FJ would be close to each other. I realize that he weighed more than her, but I think it is odd that they would be separate. Not sure if that means that she was injured elsewhere. I guess storm wash is unpredictable and she was lighter so wash itself could account for that but ....seems odd to me.

I agree. Quite puzzling. I can't go with "situation the result of Hillary storm" because that storm is 20 days further into the timeline. The photojournalist who gave the skeleton pictures to LE says on Oct 17 that she got the pictures from a hiker a little more than a month before. So, let's say Sept 16. I would wager that the hiker who found the remains didn't just immediately have the photojournalist on speed dial, but probably followed her (she's amazing at reporting on wilderness conditions).

Car problems had to have happened much earlier. If there *were* car problems (in July ?) then the two could have separated for some reason. I would think that if JRF went on down toward the 78 on his own to get help, that Fang would attempt the same route if she thought he was not able to come back. Most people would try to stay together.

If both of them were in that wash, yes, it's unpredictable. Stranger things have happened, of course - but NO sign of Fang is really weird. Apparently, just her backpack - not necessarily in the wash, but reported as being near Highway 78. That's quite far for a gully washer to float a back pack, but not impossible, and there was flooding on the north side of the road during that period - so maybe the whole area was inundated.

Still, I think all of that happened long after they were incapacitated. The hurricane moved through around August 21. They were out of touch with anyone they knew after July 24, as far as we know. No way they were alive out there for a month. The behavior of bones in such conditions perplexes all of us, as yes, some bones are lighter (and can be swept along on the surface of a flood) and others are heavier, and individuals are different.

I just wish we knew if the truck itself was moved by debris and water (indicating the power of the flood). More important, I hope the truck can reveal when it first arrived up there.

IMO