Found Deceased CA - Fang Jin, 47, flew to LA from China, train to Palm Springs, Morongo Basin, 21 Jul 2023, w/ John Root Fitzpatrick, 55, (fnd dec.), 30 Jul ‘23 #3

[slowpoke]

Yes^^^ Thank you.
They likely had no first aid kit, no way to get medical attention.
SO Heat stroke, heart attack, somehow incapacitated.

What about rattlesnakes???????????

Only bc facing a rattlesnake would likely give me a heart attack.
JMO
"This area is home to rattlesnakes. While not aggressive, they are venomous. If you encounter a rattlesnake, leave it be and maintain a safe distance."
Anza-Borrego Desert State Park

Tips to Safely Enjoy Anza-Borrego Desert State Park This Winter Season

California State Parks

www.parks.ca.gov

Different county but good info about rattlesnakes. ONLY approx "300 rattlesnake bites are reported annually" to CA poison control. YIKES!

Snakes on a trail: Tips for hiking in rattlesnake country

Summer is the perfect time to hike Sonoma County's trails. It's also the time of the year when the northern Pacific rattlesnake is most active in the region's parks. While it's rare for a human to suffer a rattlesnake bite, it is helpful to know some basics about rattlesnake behavior and what to...

parks.sonomacounty.ca.gov

Where I am, there are rattlesnakes, too. Usually, they are not much of an issue, even though I’ve encountered many.

When I see one ahead on the trail, I just stop and wait for it to cross by. Only ONE time did I have one get into defensive posture, ready to strike, and that’s only because we surprised each other.

I was running on a winding trail, and just as I rounded a corner, there it was! I stopped short, walked slowly backwards, then waited a good while before peeking back to see it was gone. Whew. I admit, that time was scary. Generally, they won’t be a problem.

 

[justtrish]

Could it be the case is still sealed because LE is suspicious of someone close to this case like a friend of JRF or someone in his neighborhood? Maybe they are investigating and not wanting to spook someone as they are watching and waiting on maybe lab results or records requests or something like that?

 

[iamshadow21]

Could it be the case is still sealed because LE is suspicious of someone close to this case like a friend of JRF or someone in his neighborhood? Maybe they are investigating and not wanting to spook someone as they are watching and waiting on maybe lab results or records requests or something like that?

Anything's possible. Without opening the box, we have no idea if it's full of evidence and suspects or contains nothing but the sound of crickets.

MOO

 

[cenazoic]

Could it be the case is still sealed because LE is suspicious of someone close to this case like a friend of JRF or someone in his neighborhood?

I can’t find the the dang source now, but when I briefly researched why a case in CA might be sealed, I took away the idea that it’s typically done when an investigation is ongoing. So, grain of salt to go with the lack of sauce.

 

[sfinkz]

Where I am, there are rattlesnakes, too. Usually, they are not much of an issue, even though I’ve encountered many.

When I see one ahead on the trail, I just stop and wait for it to cross by. Only ONE time did I have one get into defensive posture, ready to strike, and that’s only because we surprised each other.

I was running on a winding trail, and just as I rounded a corner, there it was! I stopped short, walked slowly backwards, then waited a good while before peeking back to see it was gone. Whew. I admit, that time was scary. Generally, they won’t be a problem.

I hear ya. Perusing CDC cause of death stats in the U.S. yields:

Misadventure/Unintentional = 245,000
Drug Overdose = 110,000
Motor Vehicle Traffic = 45,000
Homicide = 22,000
Domestic Partner Violence = 1,300
Rattlesnake = 2

(I know stats don’t lie but neither does my serpent-phobia)

 

[BlaiseFinlay]

Where I am, there are rattlesnakes, too. Usually, they are not much of an issue, even though I’ve encountered many.

When I see one ahead on the trail, I just stop and wait for it to cross by. Only ONE time did I have one get into defensive posture, ready to strike, and that’s only because we surprised each other.

I was running on a winding trail, and just as I rounded a corner, there it was! I stopped short, walked slowly backwards, then waited a good while before peeking back to see it was gone. Whew. I admit, that time was scary. Generally, they won’t be a problem.

Yeah, with the anything is possible caveat, this seems unlikely unless the desert has significantly more aggressive rattlesnakes than I'm used to. I can't stand seeing any kind of snake, but I nonetheless hike in rattlesnake territory and have seen some. I won't say I'm used to it by now, not even close, but I will acknowledge that those things are slow. I will wait until a snake completely crosses my path before crossing, but that process takes like 5 minutes.

Most rattlesnake bites to humans in California are from people startling a snake (like not seeing one and stepping on it) or doing something stupid. That said, I think the desert might have a more aggressive kind of rattlesnakes? I know there aren't any aggressive ones in my area of California, but I'm not sure if that holds true when you get out to the desert. Still find it unlikely.

 

[ch_13]

While I may be wrong, I still have not seen a single fact or piece of evidence in this case that points to anything other than an accident.

RSBM.

I have to disagree with you here. The police noted a distinct odor of decomposition in JRF's trailer on August 1 which led them to request a search warrant.

Of course that's not definitive and there are other possible explanations. Personally, I don't know what happened and my views change from day-to-day. However, until that odor is explained and/or we learn the results of the crime scene analysis, I can't rule out the possibility of a murder.

 

[dulcinea]

I live in So Cal, not too far from the various locations mentioned in this thread. I frequently drive through the desert areas and show one or two bars of signal but cannot send messages or make a phone call. The reverse is also true, that I show I have service but I cannot receive text messages or phone calls (I'll get a delayed notification or show a missed call when I should've been able to receive the call). So, it seems that I am connecting to a tower but despite the bars on my phone, the signal is not strong enough. This has happened with Verizon and T-Mobile, so it seems more of a signal/connectivity issue than a carrier issue? Anyway, just some thoughts about why no contact could be made even though the phones were supposedly "on."

 

[10ofRods]

Could it be the case is still sealed because LE is suspicious of someone close to this case like a friend of JRF or someone in his neighborhood? Maybe they are investigating and not wanting to spook someone as they are watching and waiting on maybe lab results or records requests or something like that?

I have said this before, but ALL autopsy/ME remain sealed UNTIL they have

1) A manner of death (which requires investigation and an extensive report in most cases)

and

2) A CAUSE of death (which can end up being "unknown" or "supposed" but no medical examiner is going to give up easily. there are tons of tests to be run and facts to consider.

THEN, if the case is thought to be a suicide, the family has the option to continue the seal in most cases.

So - we do not know what the MoD is. None of us knows. We may never know. But if it remains sealed indefinitely, all the public is entitled to find is that a death certificate exists. That the person is dead. We already know that. But we are not entitled to know MoD if the family wants compassionate privacy. That's why it's very hard to know when someone in particular suicides. Sometimes, no family can be found, and even in those cases, sometimes the Coroner him/herself decides to keep it sealed, for the dignity of the victim.

The fact that there was a suicide still goes into aggregate records kept by various agencies - but we, the public, may find it sealed forever.

In homicides, if there's an active investigation (which there is, in this case), it will also remain sealed.

In short, it is WAY too soon for these experts to know all the facts. And accidental and natural death are very hard to distinguish out in the desert, especially with complete skeletonization of the bones. There are bones sitting in various coroner's custody for long periods of time, awaiting more study and possible identification. I think each Coroner has their own ideas and rules about when to go ahead and bury the bones (not sure if they still bury, maybe some cremate? I only knew what our own Coroner used to do - and he kept a lot of bones).

And sometimes, he was able to eventually identify some of them, using ever-newer techniques.

This case could be sealed for many reasons, but surely homicide has not been ruled out and for that reason alone, of course it's sealed.

IMO.

 

[LucyOso]

Possible, though if JF had been using JRF's phone as a wifi hotspot (or connecting to his wifi at the trailer) I would expect there to be records of an additional device connecting to the network in his internet and/or phone provider logs.

If JF had been doing that I suspect LE would already know, and they'd know when and where it last connected.

Very true. It could be information that's not been released as well.

 

[dulcinea]

I have said this before, but ALL autopsy/ME remain sealed UNTIL they have

1) A manner of death (which requires investigation and an extensive report in most cases)

and

2) A CAUSE of death (which can end up being "unknown" or "supposed" but no medical examiner is going to give up easily. there are tons of tests to be run and facts to consider.

THEN, if the case is thought to be a suicide, the family has the option to continue the seal in most cases.

So - we do not know what the MoD is. None of us knows. We may never know. But if it remains sealed indefinitely, all the public is entitled to find is that a death certificate exists. That the person is dead. We already know that. But we are not entitled to know MoD if the family wants compassionate privacy. That's why it's very hard to know when someone in particular suicides. Sometimes, no family can be found, and even in those cases, sometimes the Coroner him/herself decides to keep it sealed, for the dignity of the victim.

The fact that there was a suicide still goes into aggregate records kept by various agencies - but we, the public, may find it sealed forever.

In homicides, if there's an active investigation (which there is, in this case), it will also remain sealed.

In short, it is WAY too soon for these experts to know all the facts. And accidental and natural death are very hard to distinguish out in the desert, especially with complete skeletonization of the bones. There are bones sitting in various coroner's custody for long periods of time, awaiting more study and possible identification. I think each Coroner has their own ideas and rules about when to go ahead and bury the bones (not sure if they still bury, maybe some cremate? I only knew what our own Coroner used to do - and he kept a lot of bones).

And sometimes, he was able to eventually identify some of them, using ever-newer techniques.

This case could be sealed for many reasons, but surely homicide has not been ruled out and for that reason alone, of course it's sealed.

IMO.

I think it's important, too, to keep in mind that in addition to everything you've described, the counties involved are very large, highly populated, and struggling with time and resources so that might add to the delay. In my area alone, we have many missing people and murders being actively investigated. Make that countywide, and it must be overwhelming. Add in a couple of other counties...there is a lot of information to collect and coordinate.

 

[LucyOso]

So based on what I understand of the roads and locations, I've put this together using a Google Maps image. Someone please correct me if I've mistaken anything.

Although this is a large area and difficult to search, to me it seems to have quite clear delineation. Everything seems to fall within the Pinyon Wash/Harper Canyon/Route 78 area. The items that have been found also seem to be exactly where the run-off from the mountains would be expected to wash them.

View attachment 456582

There's also a possibility Fang's backpack could have been left there at some point by someone else...

When was FJ's backpack found?

 

[slowpoke]

When was FJ's backpack found?

Our VI told us a backpack was found, but it has not been confirmed to be hers, officially.

VI’s post

 

[slowpoke]

As a person who lives in the desert and drives around, sometimes to remote places - I would absolutely never drive to a remote place in the summer without a ton of water in my car. That's just desert survival 101. You could have car problems far from services, other people, or cell coverage. You could get stuck in soft sand. So many other things can happen. I keep at least one large thing of water in my car during hot months, even if I'm not going to any notably remote place. And I am not a Navy Seal trained in survival, I'm just someone who does basic smart things to be prepared for occurrences that are not that statistically improbable.

If my dog is with me (and he usually is) I bring even more water. Let alone if I had another person with me, particularly someone not familiar with desert heat who I was trying to impress and make sure was well taken care of.

I can't see any logical way JRF and JF went out there, even for a day drive, let alone a hike or off road adventure, without notable amounts of water in the truck. And as LE has informed us, there was no notably water in the truck.

Lack of water supply in his truck—that is one really puzzling thing, like you say. JRF lives in the desert, so he should know.

I’m sure with his training in the military, hydration had to have been stressed, as well.

(I’m glad you think of your dog, as well as yourself, @patternsfinder!)

 

[Herat]

Last night I was reviewing a lot of older posts and the more current info on the geography of the Harper Flat area in relationship to the vehicle and his remains. Harper Flat is roughly rectangular, about 2.5 x 1.5 miles and not flat, but with a downslope from the southwest towards the northeast, where the elevation of the south end of Harper Canyon is at about 2300 ft elevation.

There are three main ways to enter Harper Flat, and the Harper Canyon trail, where his remains were found, is not one of them.

They are:
1. Pinyon Wash Road - going south from Highway 78. However, this gravel, rock and sand road does not appear to be driveable by a conventional 4wd vehicle because of a series of rocks just at at the south end, precisely where the blue dot is on that great map that @LucyOso found. The hiking trail reports note that vehicles park just north of those rocks and hike into the flat area.

2. Pinyon Mountain Road - this is accessible from the west on S2 road near Shelter Valley or from Highway 78 a bit farther north. This is the road with The Squeeze, and Heart Attack Hill, which are sections only for modified Jeep or other jacked-up vehicles such as serious off-roader groups. There are some side dirt roads that appear to bypass these areas so that it appears, to me, to be passable with care to the Harper Flat area with high-clearance 4WD and desert driving experience. However, there is a barbed wire fence with a walking passage at the end of Pinyon Mountain Wash where the Orange dot is on the map. This fence appears to be placed to prevent vehicles from entering Pinyon Mountain Wash, but it would also prevent vehicle driving east from entering Harper Flat.

3. Fish Creek Wash Road - this is a very long drive in sandy wash beds that starts off of Ocotillo Wells on Highway 78 driving south on Split Mountain Road, then to Fish Creek Wash and winds around in a long tortuous semicircle on more sandy scrub track to end up on Olla Wash and then more long sandy tracks to end up where Pinyon Mountain Road ended, on the west side of the fence. By looking at the tracks on Google, I cannot see that this route enters Harper Flat anywhere on the east side of the fence. I would guess this was 40 miles of unpaved, progressively more sandy and rocky wash road, the kind of remote travel where you take two spare tires, both on rims, to avoid getting completely stranded. (One flat is an inconvenience, two flats can be deadly - old desert driving motto). I also think you would have to have a map or some experience driving this route to be sure to find your way to Harper Flat area. Lots of places to go off the wrong way.

So I think the vehicle had to be on the Orange dot on the map, not the Blue one. Only if JRF was able to drive over the rocks at the end of Pinyon Wash Road (#1) could he have ended up on the east side of the fence or anywhere else nearer the entrance to Harper Canyon. Another possibility is that he did try to cross the rocks and damaged the undercarriage, or a wheel, or suspension, or even rolled the vehicle, ending up with it disabled near the Blue dot.

If they had wanted to visit Harper Canyon, they would have parked near the north end, where there are numerous cacti and the area is called Cactus Garden. This might roughly be the area where her backpack was found ( closer to the red pointer than the purple dot, my guess). If they had been looking for archeologic sites in the rocky hills north of Harper Flat, they could have left the vehicle beside Pinyon Wash Road and walked east. If there was flooding there after his death, I think a large flood there would have pushed the vehicle north, not south into the Harper Flat area.
So right now I think they took either the 2nd or 3rd option and suffered severe enough vehicle damage that they had to hike out and the closest appeared to be Harper Canyon to Highway 78. But that's just today's thoughts.

https://www.websleuths.com/forums/attachments/harper-canyon-jpg.456582/

 

[Herat]

It also strikes me that this last trip was intended as a day trip, not an overnight camping trip. The LE report of the car is so skimpy it doesn't actually say anything about camping equipment, extra tires, shovels, sand ladders, jacks, or other preparations for remote desert driving or camping, only that there was no water. And the photos we've seen of them in his truck do not show much of anything in the truck bed or in the back seats. Perhaps they were staying in one of the small towns off of Highway 78 and intending on doing day trips.

 

[Cedars]

RSBM.

I have to disagree with you here. The police noted a distinct odor of decomposition in JRF's trailer on August 1 which led them to request a search warrant.

Of course that's not definitive and there are other possible explanations. Personally, I don't know what happened and my views change from day-to-day. However, until that odor is explained and/or we learn the results of the crime scene analysis, I can't rule out the possibility of a murder.

Another factor that set off alarms bells right away, was the impression that JRF was active and using his phone, but Fang Jin, uncharacteristically, was not.

As pointed out above, it's possible the ping was an unsucessful attempt to connect with a tower from A-B Park. There was a case like that, a guy who went missing years ago in JT Park, his remains only recently found. That's a rabbit hole, I'm not going down.

Perhaps someone already stated this, but to me it is noteworthy that DH reported they were going to A-B Park, and that is, indeed, where the truck and JRF were found. That, to me, is unexpected when contemplating foul play. My impression is, if a cover-up is involved, an attempt to make people disappear, more often that involves taking them where they are not expected to be.

Yes, you can say, well, that's what the criminal intends, to make it appear misadventure, but I don't recall many cases like that. It is hard to control the circumstances, environment, etc, to have it turn out as mysteriously as it has, IMO.

But, time will tell.

JMO

 

[Ou41aw]

Last night I was reviewing a lot of older posts and the more current info on the geography of the Harper Flat area in relationship to the vehicle and his remains. Harper Flat is roughly rectangular, about 2.5 x 1.5 miles and not flat, but with a downslope from the southwest towards the northeast, where the elevation of the south end of Harper Canyon is at about 2300 ft elevation.

There are three main ways to enter Harper Flat, and the Harper Canyon trail, where his remains were found, is not one of them.

They are:
1. Pinyon Wash Road - going south from Highway. However, this gravel, rock and sand road does not appear to be driveable by a conventional 4wd vehicle because of a series of rocks just at at the south end, precisely where the blue dot is on that great map that @LucyOso found. The hiking trail reports note that vehicles part just north of those rocks and hike into the flat area.

2. Pinyon Mountain Road - this is accessible from the west on S2 road near Shelter Valley or from Highway 78 a bit farther north. This is the road with The Squeeze, and Heart Attack Hill, which are sections only for modified Jeep or other jacked-up vehicles such as serious off-roader groups. There are some side dirt roads that appear to bypass these areas so that it appears, to me, to be passable with care to the Harper Flat area with high-clearance 4WD and desert driving experience. However, there is a barbed wire fence with a walking passage at the end of Pinyon Mountain Wash where the Orange dot is on the map. This fence appears to be placed to prevent vehicles from entering Pinyon Mountain Wash, but it would also prevent vehicle driving east from entering Harper Flat.

3. Fish Creek Wash Road - this is a very long drive in sandy wash beds that starts off of Ocotillo Wells on Highway 78 driving south on Split Mountain Road, then to Fish Creek Wash and winds around in a long tortuous semicircle on more sandy scrub track to end up on Olla Wash and then more long sandy tracks to end up where Pinyon Mountain Road ended, on the west side of the fence. By looking at the tracks on Google, I cannot see that this route enters Harper Flat anywhere on the east side of the fence. I would guess this was 40 miles of unpaved, progressively more sandy and rocky wash road, the kind of remote travel where you take two spare tires, both on rims, to avoid getting completely stranded. (One flat is an inconvenience, two flats can be deadly - old desert driving motto)

So I think the vehicle had to be on the Orange dot on the map, not the Blue one. Only if JRF was able to drive over the rocks at the end of Pinyon Wash Road (#1) could he have ended up on the east side of the fence or anywhere else nearer the entrance to Harper Canyon. Another possibility is that he did try to cross the rocks and damaged the undercarriage, or a wheel, or suspension, or even rolled the vehicle, ending up with it disabled near the Blue dot.

If they had wanted to visit Harper Canyon, they would have parked near the north end, where there are numerous cacti and the area is called Cactus Garden. This might roughly be the area where her backpack was found ( closer to the red pointer than the purple dot, my guess). If they had been looking for archeologic sites in the rocky hills north of Harper Flat, they could have left the vehicle beside Pinyon Wash Road and walked east. If there was flooding there after his death, I think a large flood there would have pushed the vehicle north, not south into the Harper Flat area.
So right now I think they took either the 2nd or 3rd option and suffered severe enough vehicle damage that they had to hike out and the closest appeared to be Harper Canyon to Highway 78. But that's just today's thoughts.

https://www.websleuths.com/forums/attachments/harper-canyon-jpg.456582/

I have been studying that area in depth recently as well, and have actually been off-roading all around there in the past. Used to camp, party, and off-road all around Ocotillo Wells in my younger days. #3 Fish Creek Wash Road is still my pick as that is probably the route I remember most people taking, and I always remember as the prettiest/coolest route in that area. Off-roading through Fish Creek Wash is mostly the only reason anyone is off-roading on that side of HWY 78. The scenery through there is amazing and most 4x4 trucks can make it pretty far in. It is sandy but not too bad until really far in. I could see him maybe wanting to take her through this route for the amazing sites of the rock walls and rock caves in that canyon. There is also a primitive campsite in that area that people use for camping. The pics you can get here are really nice. Here are some sites with write ups about it, and some pics/vids.

Jeeping in Fish Creek Wash Anza Borrego

Fish Creek Wash Anza Borrego Overview Anza Borrego state park in southern California is a beautiful desert state park with endless amounts of off-road fun a...

www.tendigitgrid.com

Anza-Borrego Desert State Park: Fish Creek Wash - DesertUSA

Fish Creek Primitive Camp

Heading back west for more desert exploration we stopped first in order to check out the Ocotillo Wells SVRA. That first night, instead of camping in the SVRA itself, we took the opportunity to sta…

www.adventureswithdog.com

 

[Herat]

I have been studying that area in depth recently as well, and have actually been off-roading all around there in the past. Used to camp, party, and off-road all around Ocotillo Wells in my younger days. #3 Fish Creek Wash Road is still my pick as that is probably the route I remember most people taking, and I always remember as the prettiest/coolest route in that area. Off-roading through Fish Creek Wash is mostly the only reason anyone is off-roading on that side of HWY 78. The scenery through there is amazing and most 4x4 trucks can make it pretty far in. It is sandy but not too bad until really far in. I could see him maybe wanting to take her through this route for the amazing sites of the rock walls. There is also a primitive campsite in that area that people use for camping. The pics you can get here are really nice. Here are some sites with write ups about it, and some pics/vids.

Jeeping in Fish Creek Wash Anza Borrego

Fish Creek Wash Anza Borrego Overview Anza Borrego state park in southern California is a beautiful desert state park with endless amounts of off-road fun a...

www.tendigitgrid.com

Anza-Borrego Desert State Park: Fish Creek Wash - DesertUSA

Fish Creek Primitive Camp

Heading back west for more desert exploration we stopped first in order to check out the Ocotillo Wells SVRA. That first night, instead of camping in the SVRA itself, we took the opportunity to sta…

www.adventureswithdog.com

WOW. This is great information.

Yes, I can see how this would be a great trip. Looks like they wouldn't have been able to do Sandstone Canyon in those narrow areas.

Did you even make it to Harper Flat? Can you comment on whether it's possible to enter Harper Flat on the east side of the fence? Would you have driven that route all the way to Harper Flat as a single vehicle, in July?

Do you think they might have left a camp on the east side of Fish Creek Wash, as you describe, as a base for a day trip into this area? Would that have been a safe place to leave stuff?

Thanks so much for this. It makes me want to go there, in February.

 

[Herat]

So, #Ou41aw

How do you think he (they?) ended up at the top of Harper Canyon with his vehicle on Harper Flat, possibly behind the fence and damaged?