Found Deceased CA - Fang Jin, 47, flew to LA from China, train to Palm Springs, Morongo Basin, 21 Jul 2023, w/ JohnRoot Fitzpatrick, 55, missing, 30 Jul ‘23

[Seni]

Has the family requested visas?
I would imagine they would be fast tracked if they had.

 

[slowpoke]

Has the family requested visas?
I would imagine they would be fast tracked if they had.

Chinese articles suggest that they have:
Google translated:

”Ms. Lin said that the U.S. police did not disclose more information about the search. Since this case is now a case of disappearance, Ms. Lin is unable to go to the United States to find her mother's whereabouts through an emergency visa.”

(From the same article I referenced in my previous post.)

I don’t understand why they’d be denied, though.

 

[megs1477]

Chinese articles suggest that they have:
Google translated:

”Ms. Lin said that the U.S. police did not disclose more information about the search. Since this case is now a case of disappearance, Ms. Lin is unable to go to the United States to find her mother's whereabouts through an emergency visa.”

(From the same article I referenced in my previous post.)

I don’t understand why they’d be denied, though.

This is just a guess, but it could be related to the classification of "voluntarily missing" which (as explained above) does not trigger many resources, etc. They could classify it as 'not an emergency.' I can see how this could be abused in order to get Visa's.

 

[10ofRods]

Has the family requested visas?
I would imagine they would be fast tracked if they had.

We don't know. Fast track is "emergency visa" and the rules are rather narrow (although people apply on other bases all the time and get them - but don't know China's standing).

However, just a regular tourist visa is usually quickly processed by the US:

Apply for a U.S. Visa | Appointment Wait Times - China (English)

3 days from the time of application, according to that site.

Application is online? Even if there are delays, it probably isn't more than a week or two. I am guessing there could be delays on the Chinese side but the Chinese govt appears to approve as many travel visas as they possibly can. Both sides very much want tourism. US is competing with other destinations - and we like tourists.

 

[RickshawFan]

I first learned about Lauren's case while searching for cases possibly related to this one. I really do wonder what happened to Lauren... I guess it's something we may not know...

IMO the family knows. Case closed.

 

[Seni]

We don't know. Fast track is "emergency visa" and the rules are rather narrow (although people apply on other bases all the time and get them - but don't know China's standing).

However, just a regular tourist visa is usually quickly processed by the US:

Apply for a U.S. Visa | Appointment Wait Times - China (English)

3 days from the time of application, according to that site.

Application is online? Even if there are delays, it probably isn't more than a week or two. I am guessing there could be delays on the Chinese side but the Chinese govt appears to approve as many travel visas as they possibly can. Both sides very much want tourism. US is competing with other destinations - and we like tourists.

Yes, based upon having a brother in China and his experience.

 

[RickshawFan]

Has the family requested visas?
I would imagine they would be fast tracked if they had.

The US is not on good terms with China at the moment.

 

[10ofRods]

(snipped by me)

@cenilla posted a link to a Chinese language news report, and the translated version says this:

”On August 12, the staff of the Chinese Consulate General in Los Angeles told reporters that the consulate has contacted the local police and the family members of the missing person, and continues to pay attention to the progress of the incident. So far, the search is still in progress.”

So, the answer is yes, they know. Unknown what reporters is referenced. Only reporters in China?

Couldn’t the Consulate help guide the family with obtaining emergency visas to the US?

It could - but it's designed to help people already in the US on visas. Embassies deal with visa issuance; Consulates typical deal in visa revisions, renewals or problems with expirations/overstay.

The U.S. Embassy in China would be the place to go to try and get a faster-than-three-day approval for a visa. My point is partly that a regular tourist visa is quite feasible, not only for family members, but friends of Fang Jin. The U.S. will make its best attempt to issue the visa (which is issued by the US, not by China, of course) unless China has criminal or other records that make a visa questionable on the applicant. It is not the Chinese consulate in the US that provides the U.S. with this information - but a department of the Chinese government parallel to our State Department.

So, the Consulate knows, and is watching. That is rather different to "actively searching on its own" or "aiding in getting visas." If the family members called the Los Angeles Consulate they'd be given instructions in Chinese on contacting the U.S. Embassy (in China - where workers are also Chinese-speaking) to start a visa application. They likely would have had their visas within 3-7 days. Paying for a flight is a different matter and not one that either Embassies or Consulates will typically do. This presumes that the family members already had passports (it's my impression that many people in China have them - but no clue about the length of that process). The family is not going to be advised by either an Embassy or a Consulate on how to go about conducting a missing persons investigation.

I do not think "paying attention" to FJ's plight is a concrete action by the Consulate, it's pretty much a minimal response, as expected - because aside from offering advice from afar to the family in China (should they dial up the Consulate and need visa advice), the Consulate has no techniques, methods or budget for a missing persons search for most of SoCal. Could the Consulate hold a press conference in L.A. and invite big MSM?

I think it could. As of right now, it has not (but maybe it only found out in mid-August; maybe LE told them it wouldn't be helpful, no way of knowing). What the Consulate can do is advise the daughter to contact the US Embassy in China (not a Chinese consulate in SoCal) about expediting the visa (but the Chinese government's role in the visa is a completely separate issue and the Consulate has no way of influencing that process from afar - it's routine, U.S.-requested information that has to accompany any visa application).

IMO.

 

[Pyrite]

I haven’t seen any mention of the possibility that Fang Jin may be trying to defect to the US, but want’s to keep it quiet to protect her family still in China. I think it’s a small possibility, but a possible reason she has been out of touch with her family.
MOO

edired to change is to may be

 

[RickshawFan]

I haven’t seen any mention of the possibility that Fang Jin is trying to defect to the US, but want’s to keep it quiet to protect her family still in China. I think it’s a small possibility, but a possible reason she has been out of touch with her family.
MOO

IMO we don't have a typical missing persons case in terms of what the scope might be. <modsnip> We really don't know in what sense this person is missing, because there are sources here we may not be able to trust.

 

[Herat]

I don't think any LE or consulates will be taking any action until she does not show up for the return flight in October.

At that point, then, she has either illegally overstayed her US travel VISA, or she is now officially a missing person.

Harsh, but I think it's the sad practicality of this all.

 

[10ofRods]

<modsnip - quoted post was removed>

We have been told (I think source is her family members) that she arrived at LAX (no mention of the flight roster) and headed to Downtown LA, near Union Station intending to take a train to Palm Springs. But there was a prior sandstorm that covered up the tracks, so Amtrak was using busses instead. She made it to Palm Springs (probably dropped off at the Amtrak station by bus - although apparently Amtrak has another stop it uses when it's running the bus route).

Then we have her pictures (sent to family) that begin with Joshua Tree and areas immediately adjacent to Morongo Valley/29 Palms. No pictures of Palm Springs that I know of (or of, for example, going up the tram, doing tourist things in Palm Springs). It was a pretty quick trip to JT, IMO.

That's it, aside from his phone giving evidence of still working in Thermal and Julian (generally southward - away from the Morongo military facility and Edwards, as well - but en route to San Diego County - which is an apparent coincidence - given that the recently discovered Chinese spies were interested in the Pacific Fleet operations).

JRF claims to be a former Navy Seal. It's an interesting pair-up, for sure. If there's any reason for this pair to want to go off grid, it could appear that the tourism established that...they were just tourists, but then...they disappear. And at this point I think it's likely that the truck is not alongside any minor road or at a public or private campsite. If JRF was in his truck when his phone pinged in Julian, then he was heading south (with or without FJ).

IMO.

 

[10ofRods]

I don't think any LE or consulates will be taking any action until she does not show up for the return flight in October.

At that point, then, she has either illegally overstayed her US travel VISA, or she is now officially a missing person.

Harsh, but I think it's the sad practicality of this all.

I think that's how the Chinese authorities would play it, in any case of this type. So in October, she would officially have overstayed her visas. Knowing lots of people who have overstayed visas of various types, I can pretty much say that there are no "visa police" that go out and look for people. If a person is from a nation where the FBI has ongoing concerns about terrorism or espionage, then the FBI would go looking for her last known American contact (hotel, friend, etc - in this case, JRF I would think).

I am not really sure what happens if a Chinese citizen traveling on a tourist visa decides to go to Mexico (that would count as exiting the US - but getting back in would have to happen before that visa expired or...she'd be in violation). I do know people who went to Mexico while on a tourist visa from a Middle Eastern nation - intending not to come back to the US and exiting before US visa expired, picking up a Mexican visa of some kind along the way - and they flew home from Mexico quite a while later. One of their party decided to re-enter the U.S. while the visa was still good, which is how I know the story (that person was in the process of changing to a student visa - which turned out to be possible).

I'd think that if FJ had used her visa to cross into Mexico, that would be known to authorities. And, she'd need to come back before October to avoid the visa expiring (or fly out of Mexico). If the U.S. has no record of her returning from Mexico, this could effect issuance of a future tourist visa to her. It would likely be regarded as an overstayed visa in any case - barring her from entry to the U.S. again, perhaps for life.

IMO.

 

[slowpoke]

Trying to organize people names relevant to this case:

Fang Jin (missing woman tourist from China)

John Root Fitzpatrick (missing Morongo Valley, CA man, Fang’s internet friend she came to see, as either a love interest or hired tour guide)

Family friend (organizer of a crowdfunding site. Name shown on the site’s page. Possibly the one who reported Fang missing to the SBCSD?)

Ms C (Voluntarily assisting Fang’s daughter. Presumably local, or at least, in the US. Posts on another forum in attempt to get info and help family find Fang Jin. Her surname is given in Chinese media. She did not know family personally prior.) World Journal, 8/10/23

An unnamed friend of JRF (friend reported JRF missing on 7/30/23)

Ms. L (daughter of Fang Jin. In China. Surname given in Chinese media) Xinmin Weekly

SBCSD Public Information Officer Gloria Huerta (quoted in news reports as saying that JRT was hired by Fang as a tour guide) Hi-Desert Star, 8/11/23

SBCSD Public Information Officer Mara Rodriguez (also quoted in news reports that JRT was hired by Fang as a tour guide. Also said the two are both listed as voluntary missing, with investigation ongoing) KESQ, 8/10/23

SBCSD Detective Tyler Bengard (his name is listed on both missing person posters as the contact. Morongo Basin station)

 

[richie2023]

Nothing Burger until JRF's Tacoma Truck is found or the body (of either one) sadly.

 

[Herat]

I checked the US VISA regulations for those holding B1/2 US Tourism visas.

She would be able to depart and re-enter the US if she was traveling within the time limit allowed for this visit. So she would be able to legally enter Mexico and re-enter the US from Mexico if it was prior to the October date of the validity for this current entrance. She could technically also enter Canada, but she would have to have a Canadian visa.

In addition, with a US B1/2 tourism VISA, she could also travel to other countries or return to China later than the October current visa deadline, but she would have to have documentation of finances, plans, and a reason to re-enter that would satisfy immigration officials at the port of entry.

So, it is certainly possible for them to both legally depart the US for Mexico and return back into the US if they were within the October deadline.

If they had done this by plane, there would have been a record of their flights. I think US plate readers would have picked up his vehicle at the border crossings.

If they took a bus or walked over by foot, they might not have been detected. Hopefully LE did check with Mexican authorities to see if there is a record of them being admitted into Mexico by foot or bus.

 

[10ofRods]

I checked the US VISA regulations for those holding B1/2 US Tourism visas.

She would be able to depart and re-enter the US if she was traveling within the time limit allowed for this visit. So she would be able to legally enter Mexico and re-enter the US from Mexico if it was prior to the October date of the validity for this current entrance. She could technically also enter Canada, but she would have to have a Canadian visa.

In addition, with a US B1/2 tourism VISA, she could also travel to other countries or return to China later than the October current visa deadline, but she would have to have documentation of finances, plans, and a reason to re-enter that would satisfy immigration officials at the port of entry.

So, it is certainly possible for them to both legally depart the US for Mexico and return back into the US if they were within the October deadline.

If they had done this by plane, there would have been a record of their flights. I think US plate readers would have picked up his vehicle at the border crossings.

If they took a bus or walked over by foot, they might not have been detected. Hopefully LE did check with Mexican authorities to see if there is a record of them being admitted into Mexico by foot or bus.

That's my understanding too. So she/they could be in Mexico. Having a blast, or otherwise. But for some reason, FJ stopped sharing the trip with her family back home.

Technically could be Canada, but their trajectory makes it less common sensical.

She could indeed then apply for a visa in Mexico (and she's been using her 180 days in the EU, as I understand it - IMO).

Not all the border crossings have plate readers and not all plates are readable (the number of illegally covered over plates I see per day is very high - I commute in the L.A. area).

She can indeed go to Mexico and come back (or stay in Mexico and be declared an overstay on her US visa - and if she doesn't get a Mexican visa, she'll be an overstay there too, IMO).

I personally know of several ways of walking over by foot where there would be no records. Not so much in California, though. But they were near the border with AZ - which is where I know of 2-3 crossings where one can walk and wear a COVID mask and no one would figure out that someone crossed. This is the kind of thing I could see JRF knowing.

IMO.

(One of the ways of going over involves using private land...and I know someone else who knows several people who permit it on their land).

 

[crhedBngr]

Has JF's family hired a Private Investigator? Someone fluent in her Chinese dialect?

Apologies if this was suggested upstream.

JMVHO.

 

[slowpoke]

Has JF's family hired a Private Investigator? Someone fluent in her Chinese dialect?

Apologies if this was suggested upstream.

JMVHO.

I’m sure it was suggested to the family in China, but I’ve not seen any action or word in that regard. MOO

I agree that would be the best next move at this standstill in the case. It’s a lot to ask, but If that Ms C volunteer would consider to generously be the translator/go-between contact, maybe a non-Chinese speaking PI would still work (which would help widen the choices of PI). MOO

 

[richie2023]

JF is a loner living in a desert trailer park.