Found Deceased CA - Fang Jin, 47, flew to LA from China, train to Palm Springs, Morongo Basin, 21 Jul 2023, w/ JohnRoot Fitzpatrick, 55, missing, 30 Jul ‘23

[10ofRods]

If FJ is still with JRF, she doesn't need an interpreter and is unlikely to go hang out with a Chinese speaking community.

If FJ is on her own in SoCal, she will run into many different Chinese-speaking communities, but it would be next to impossible to locate her among just Szechuan speakers (it's my understanding that that's her language). If the idea is to send out announcements aimed at FJ, her own family only has to make pleading videos and post them on SM. China has SM and some of it overlaps with ours. People would find it and repost - or they could email it to local police, libraries, communities of Chinese speakers, etc.

If the idea is to make a "Please contact us" announcement, they already speak her language and do not need to hire anyone. If the idea, instead, is to try and figure out where the Szechuan speaking communities are in SoCal, it would be best to contact Chinese teachers, professors, community centers, etc, and email/reach out to them.

But how would FJ know where her co-language speakers are and why would she reach out to them instead of her family? How does speaking Szechuan help find FJ? It's not as if there's any evidence that she ran away from Morongo Valley and is now without a phone (and homeless?) inside a community of Chinese-language speakers (of any of the Chinese languages).

Interestingly, the high desert has many small Chinese-speaking communities and an even greater population of Chinese-speakers (all major languages) who live among everyone else, in regularly suburban/urban housing. We have four mostly monolingual families (Mandarin and Cantonese speaking) on my block. I have from 2-20 Chinese speaking students in every class - and all of them also read and write English. Very well, too. However, they do live in housing together (mostly) and are an easy resource to reach out to.

But why would the family need an interpreter? I'm not following. A private investigator, yes (who could also be tasked with sending video pleas to social media). If we here on WS had such a video, we'd put it in this thread or a media thread, and then many of us would share it broadly. For that, they would need an English-speaker translator. It would be great to do it in both English and Szechuan (also Mandarin and Cantonese). IOW, the number of monolingual Chinese speakers in the high desert (or the low desert or San Diego County or San Bernardino County) is quite low.

If a plea to FJ herself is the goal (and I totally understand that), then it needs to be in her language - and IMO, spoken by friends or family members, begging her to get in touch. And it needs to be video and we all need to share it broadly if it ever occurs. If, instead, the hope is that lots of people will look for FJ as a result of a video plea (or presser), then it needs to be mostly in English, with ASL and Chinese language involved as well.

IMO.

 

[10ofRods]

JF is a loner living in a desert trailer park.

EXACTLY.

Thank you. He has that one 'friend' or acquaintance. None of his family has come forward to plead with him to reappear. Or to try and show up at the last known spots. Indeed, there's almost no coverage of his disappearance at all (that's normal, there are a lot of missing people) and almost as little for FJ.

The goal should be to raise awareness - with initial emphasis on that truck (but without unduly inconveniencing every blue truck driver in California and adjacent states).

IMO>

 

[slowpoke]

If FJ is still with JRF, she doesn't need an interpreter and is unlikely to go hang out with a Chinese speaking community.

If FJ is on her own in SoCal, she will run into many different Chinese-speaking communities, but it would be next to impossible to locate her among just Szechuan speakers (it's my understanding that that's her language). If the idea is to send out announcements aimed at FJ, her own family only has to make pleading videos and post them on SM. China has SM and some of it overlaps with ours. People would find it and repost - or they could email it to local police, libraries, communities of Chinese speakers, etc.

If the idea is to make a "Please contact us" announcement, they already speak her language and do not need to hire anyone. If the idea, instead, is to try and figure out where the Szechuan speaking communities are in SoCal, it would be best to contact Chinese teachers, professors, community centers, etc, and email/reach out to them.

But how would FJ know where her co-language speakers are and why would she reach out to them instead of her family? How does speaking Szechuan help find FJ? It's not as if there's any evidence that she ran away from Morongo Valley and is now without a phone (and homeless?) inside a community of Chinese-language speakers (of any of the Chinese languages).

Interestingly, the high desert has many small Chinese-speaking communities and an even greater population of Chinese-speakers (all major languages) who live among everyone else, in regularly suburban/urban housing. We have four mostly monolingual families (Mandarin and Cantonese speaking) on my block. I have from 2-20 Chinese speaking students in every class - and all of them also read and write English. Very well, too. However, they do live in housing together (mostly) and are an easy resource to reach out to.

But why would the family need an interpreter? I'm not following. A private investigator, yes (who could also be tasked with sending video pleas to social media). If we here on WS had such a video, we'd put it in this thread or a media thread, and then many of us would share it broadly. For that, they would need an English-speaker translator. It would be great to do it in both English and Szechuan (also Mandarin and Cantonese). IOW, the number of monolingual Chinese speakers in the high desert (or the low desert or San Diego County or San Bernardino County) is quite low.

If a plea to FJ herself is the goal (and I totally understand that), then it needs to be in her language - and IMO, spoken by friends or family members, begging her to get in touch. And it needs to be video and we all need to share it broadly if it ever occurs. If, instead, the hope is that lots of people will look for FJ as a result of a video plea (or presser), then it needs to be mostly in English, with ASL and Chinese language involved as well.

IMO.

The World Journal article said:
“Ms. Cui said that the name of the missing woman is Fang Jin, who lives in Guangdong, China.“

The Wikipedia for Guangdong lists Cantonese first in a list of languages.
But, also—isn’t Mandarin the official language for all of China? My knowledge of such things are limited, I am willing to admit, but maybe Fang would understand the Mandarin language, too?

 

[Laughing]

<modsnip: quoted post was removed> there seems to be little information sent back to family, imho.

No specifics about the 'tour guide," little information about where they went or what they did.

If I email you from a trip -- you know where we ate lunch & what we had, traffic backups & slowdowns, how the dog reacted at the different convenience stores, gas stations, pet-friendly patios, info about the motel, etc etc etc.

Yeah, I'm wordy....

jmho ymmv lrr

 

[slowpoke]

<modsnip: quoted post was removed>

No specifics about the 'tour guide," little information about where they went or what they did.

If I email you from a trip -- you know where we ate lunch & what we had, traffic backups & slowdowns, how the dog reacted at the different convenience stores, gas stations, pet-friendly patios, info about the motel, etc etc etc.

Yeah, I'm wordy....

jmho ymmv lrr

Any mpression of “how vague FJ's communications with family” we might get could also be a skewed conclusion due to several factors. JMO

Like maybe Fang’s family are unwilling to put forth a lot of detail (cultural reason or just the way the family is).

Media getting it wrong or things ’lost in translation’.

Fang also may have told ‘white lies’ to her family to better “sell“ her in-reality-throwing-caution-to-the-wind internet romance, to lessen their worry.

MOO

 

[slowpoke]

JF is a loner living in a desert trailer park.

We may not have a complete picture of JRF to say he is a loner. He may very well be.

But, I consider myself a loner. Yet I also think I am a person who values kindness to others, and always trying to do the right thing.

A “desert trailer park”. I’ve seen some really nice mobile home parks. I don’t know what JRF’s is like, but I hesitate to judge anyone just because of his living in a “desert trailer park”.

 

[RickshawFan]

We have been told (I think source is her family members) that she arrived at LAX (no mention of the flight roster) and headed to Downtown LA, near Union Station intending to take a train to Palm Springs. But there was a prior sandstorm that covered up the tracks, so Amtrak was using busses instead. She made it to Palm Springs (probably dropped off at the Amtrak station by bus - although apparently Amtrak has another stop it uses when it's running the bus route).

Then we have her pictures (sent to family) that begin with Joshua Tree and areas immediately adjacent to Morongo Valley/29 Palms. No pictures of Palm Springs that I know of (or of, for example, going up the tram, doing tourist things in Palm Springs). It was a pretty quick trip to JT, IMO.

That's it, aside from his phone giving evidence of still working in Thermal and Julian (generally southward - away from the Morongo military facility and Edwards, as well - but en route to San Diego County - which is an apparent coincidence - given that the recently discovered Chinese spies were interested in the Pacific Fleet operations).

JRF claims to be a former Navy Seal. It's an interesting pair-up, for sure. If there's any reason for this pair to want to go off grid, it could appear that the tourism established that...they were just tourists, but then...they disappear. And at this point I think it's likely that the truck is not alongside any minor road or at a public or private campsite. If JRF was in his truck when his phone pinged in Julian, then he was heading south (with or without FJ).

IMO.

Thanks for catching me up. I was in this case at the start and then got focused on other things.

I can't imagine a foreign national navigating all of that upon arrival. You have to do all that while severely jet-lagged and not speak the language?

29 Palms is where the big base is.....And no evidence of her after that. Just his phone? And it went to Thermal and Julian, so probably across Anza Borrego (I've actually been that very route, and spent the night in Julian).

Now I'm even more in cloak-and-dagger mode....There could be all kinds of details in this package: a covert handoff, a staged disappearance, an assassination, a murder somewhere in Anza-B, an insertion into some facility, a balloon launch, installing a mini listening station out in the desert....

Does this "Navy Seal" speak Chinese?

 

[RickshawFan]

I think that's how the Chinese authorities would play it, in any case of this type. So in October, she would officially have overstayed her visas. Knowing lots of people who have overstayed visas of various types, I can pretty much say that there are no "visa police" that go out and look for people. If a person is from a nation where the FBI has ongoing concerns about terrorism or espionage, then the FBI would go looking for her last known American contact (hotel, friend, etc - in this case, JRF I would think).

I am not really sure what happens if a Chinese citizen traveling on a tourist visa decides to go to Mexico (that would count as exiting the US - but getting back in would have to happen before that visa expired or...she'd be in violation). I do know people who went to Mexico while on a tourist visa from a Middle Eastern nation - intending not to come back to the US and exiting before US visa expired, picking up a Mexican visa of some kind along the way - and they flew home from Mexico quite a while later. One of their party decided to re-enter the U.S. while the visa was still good, which is how I know the story (that person was in the process of changing to a student visa - which turned out to be possible).

I'd think that if FJ had used her visa to cross into Mexico, that would be known to authorities. And, she'd need to come back before October to avoid the visa expiring (or fly out of Mexico). If the U.S. has no record of her returning from Mexico, this could effect issuance of a future tourist visa to her. It would likely be regarded as an overstayed visa in any case - barring her from entry to the U.S. again, perhaps for life.

IMO.

Isn't there a method by which you can extend your 3 month visa by leaving the country and re-entering? IIRC the foreign nationals I met while thru-hiking the AT had to leave and come back when they inevitably couldn't complete the hike in 3 months. But they could just leave for a day (they'd go to Canada).

 

[RickshawFan]

<modsnip: quoted post was removed> Righty-ho! Maritime Security Team Leader....

I'll bet the military is actively looking for this guy, MSM notwithstanding. Nightmarish scenario to lose a guy with these credentials into the wild blue yonder, deep blue sea, or anything related.

 

[crhedBngr]

If FJ is still with JRF, she doesn't need an interpreter and is unlikely to go hang out with a Chinese speaking community.

If FJ is on her own in SoCal, she will run into many different Chinese-speaking communities, but it would be next to impossible to locate her among just Szechuan speakers (it's my understanding that that's her language). If the idea is to send out announcements aimed at FJ, her own family only has to make pleading videos and post them on SM. China has SM and some of it overlaps with ours. People would find it and repost - or they could email it to local police, libraries, communities of Chinese speakers, etc.

If the idea is to make a "Please contact us" announcement, they already speak her language and do not need to hire anyone. If the idea, instead, is to try and figure out where the Szechuan speaking communities are in SoCal, it would be best to contact Chinese teachers, professors, community centers, etc, and email/reach out to them.

But how would FJ know where her co-language speakers are and why would she reach out to them instead of her family? How does speaking Szechuan help find FJ? It's not as if there's any evidence that she ran away from Morongo Valley and is now without a phone (and homeless?) inside a community of Chinese-language speakers (of any of the Chinese languages).

Interestingly, the high desert has many small Chinese-speaking communities and an even greater population of Chinese-speakers (all major languages) who live among everyone else, in regularly suburban/urban housing. We have four mostly monolingual families (Mandarin and Cantonese speaking) on my block. I have from 2-20 Chinese speaking students in every class - and all of them also read and write English. Very well, too. However, they do live in housing together (mostly) and are an easy resource to reach out to.

But why would the family need an interpreter? I'm not following. A private investigator, yes (who could also be tasked with sending video pleas to social media). If we here on WS had such a video, we'd put it in this thread or a media thread, and then many of us would share it broadly. For that, they would need an English-speaker translator. It would be great to do it in both English and Szechuan (also Mandarin and Cantonese). IOW, the number of monolingual Chinese speakers in the high desert (or the low desert or San Diego County or San Bernardino County) is quite low.

If a plea to FJ herself is the goal (and I totally understand that), then it needs to be in her language - and IMO, spoken by friends or family members, begging her to get in touch. And it needs to be video and we all need to share it broadly if it ever occurs. If, instead, the hope is that lots of people will look for FJ as a result of a video plea (or presser), then it needs to be mostly in English, with ASL and Chinese language involved as well.

IMO.

RBBM

I was thinking of a PI who spoke Szechuan, as well as other Chinese dialects, fluently. This way, s/he could brief FJ's family more easily on a regular basis.

Also, the PI could talk to any other Chinese who spoke Szechuan (or another dialect) in some of the places FJ and JRF visited. Perhaps some Chinese might be more willing to volunteer information on her sighting(s) if they were questioned by someone speaking their language.

Lastly, I wonder if FJ knew she was in trouble early during her trip, and tried to convey this to someone. If JRF showed a violent side within a day or two, she may have tried to pacify him and not make any trouble. If this was the case, though, she may have realized she needed to get away, and the PI would be asking if anyone saw "suspicious" behavior.

Apologies if I didn't state this clearly. I wasn't referring to both a PI and an interpreter, but a PI who would speak Chinese.

JMVHO.

 

[ch_13]

I haven’t seen any mention of the possibility that Fang Jin may be trying to defect to the US, but want’s to keep it quiet to protect her family still in China. I think it’s a small possibility, but a possible reason she has been out of touch with her family.
MOO

edired to change is to may be

Defection isn't really an option. Maybe some high-value politico or scientist who has knowledge of state secrets could defect, but the U.S. is just going to send any normal Chinese citizen right back home.

Now she could try to file for asylum. Although based on what we know about her she doesn't seem to meet the criteria. And in any case to file for asylum you simply fill out a form. There's no need to run off and hide.

If she did disappear voluntarily then she may have just decided that she wanted to stay illegally and live off the grid with JRF. Although it doesn't seem her family thinks that's something she would do.

 

[flowershop]

Fang Jin operated a homestay in Portugal and that leads me to believe she liked to travel and trusted others.

If you aren't familiar, look up what a homestay entails. Travelers share a home with a local. Presumably this is arranged without traveler or host really knowing each other.

Based on this I find it fitting that she would trust an American she had never met to be her tour guide.
MOO

 

[10ofRods]

The World Journal article said:
“Ms. Cui said that the name of the missing woman is Fang Jin, who lives in Guangdong, China.“

The Wikipedia for Guangdong lists Cantonese first in a list of languages.
But, also—isn’t Mandarin the official language for all of China? My knowledge of such things are limited, I am willing to admit, but maybe Fang would understand the Mandarin language, too?

Whether Mandarin is the 'official language' for all of China doesn't mean that locals in various places actually speak it as their native gone.

When converting to an industrial economy, China had to face the linguistic problems. Mandarin and Cantonese conferred huge advantages on workers from those languages (not dialects, btw). So, China started using English as the lengua franca of the Chinese workforce. Naturally, people still speak their local languages at home. But there is no requirement that everyone speak the "official language" (more like...product instructions are in Mandarin...but that's written, not spoken, langauge).

120 million Chinese speak Szechuan at home - or in the workplace, while also reading Mandarin. This results in a figure of 70% or so speaking "some form" of Mandarin.

I would guess that Fang in particular would read, write, speak and understand Mandarin. It's a bit like the ability to switch between Spanish and Portuguese. Or, even, Spanish and Latin. Lots of overlap.

But Fang Jin is traveling in the US and likely also knows some English. Further, if the messaging is aimed AT Fang Jin, then surely the family is capable of writing/getting someone to read out what they want to say? If the messaging is aimed at someone else - who would that be?

I too am wracking my brain for possible solutions to this part of the question. I don't see the problem as linguistic - I see it as a problem of SM and MSM coverage. OTOH, if the family believes FJ is "listening" somehow to either Chinese media or U.S. media - then of course, they should produce a video in their own language. And get it out there.

It's the "getting it out there" that is the difficulty. Family already speaks the same language as FJ. If they think she might contact them if they plead with her (or the person she's with), then...they might want to do that (IMO). China permits, hosts and uses TikTok. TikTok is basically a Chinese medium. It's called Douyin in China and has 750 million daily users in China. However, to reach what we Americans know as TikTok, they'd need VPN (probably not cool in China) OR someone in the US to stick their video up on TikTok (which would reach millions in California).

But to find Fang Jin, I think the key part is getting the word out to Californians, Arizonans, Nevadans and Mexicans (in English and Spanish). The family might need an interpreter to communicate with their TikTok representative - but I don't see why they can't just caption their own plea for Fang Jin's safety (and then...the missing link would be getting it translated into English/Spanish). I think that could happen if some of us could get hold of such a plea video. Any number of Chinese Americans in SoCal could help with that (and the TikTok upload) if there were an organized effort.

Would FJ actually see it? Not if she has no access to a phone or is trying to spend some time away from SM/phone. So many questions (I have, anyway). But if we want to find that blue truck, the languages to use on SM are English and Spanish.

IMO.

 

[10ofRods]

Fang Jin operated a homestay in Portugal and that leads me to believe she liked to travel and trusted others.

If you aren't familiar, look up what a homestay entails. Travelers share a home with a local. Presumably this is arranged without traveler or host really knowing each other.

Based on this I find it fitting that she would trust an American she had never met to be her tour guide.
MOO

I do too. I also believe (after reading posts on Chinese netizen sites) that she had some ownership or interest in the homestay properties (maybe not though - it's hard to tell, these people do not know her - but the daughter was interacting with them and not denying what they said). (The links are on an earlier page of this thread - I don't think there's a Media thread for this case, but it may be about time to try and get someone to start one).

Her life in Portugal was also conducive to trusting neighbors and others IMO. With the homestays, most of the renters have to give up a credit card number, an address, and (when we've done it) passport numbers. But I do wonder how much specific info FJ gave to JRF before arriving/employing him/driving around with him - whatever it was.

I am also well aware that I've never been great about telling my kids the names and addresses of BnB owners when we've traveled in Europe. OTOH, I urge my students traveling to Mexico to leave and update their travel plans. I urge them to do this in wilderness/adjacent travel in North America in general. If I were the one traveling and I thought I was staying with a trusted person, not sure I'd be so diligent. I'll urge diligence more often.

IMO.

 

[slowpoke]

Fang Jin operated a homestay in Portugal and that leads me to believe she liked to travel and trusted others.

If you aren't familiar, look up what a homestay entails. Travelers share a home with a local. Presumably this is arranged without traveler or host really knowing each other.

Based on this I find it fitting that she would trust an American she had never met to be her tour guide.
MOO

Thanks for bringing up her position as a homestay host in Portugal. When I read it earlier, I didn’t really process it in my head, not being real familiar with that kind of accommodation for a vacation trip.

it gave me a thought. The SBCSD habe been saying JRT was hired as a tour guide by Fang, which puzzled me, as we heard conflicting things.

What if JRT was a homestay host, too? Do homestay hosts take their guests around to places like he did?

If not officially (as in he’s listed with a company), maybe informally (as in he made the offer after it came up in conversation about her doing homestay hosting in Portugal.)

Just my late night ponderings.

 

[AliceInPain]

I wonder why her NamUs says "There are no vehicles associated with Fang at this time", when they know she'd been travelling in it.
Plus with the different dates of disappearance, if I hadn't known about this I'd think the cases were completely unrelated.

Maybe they could tell from the camera footage there was only one person in the truck?

 

[imstilla.grandma]

According to public information, the Veterans Processing Court was established in 2008 to deal with the legal issues of American veterans in the criminal justice system. The court is thought to be only for traumatized U.S. veterans returning from the battlefield. Many of these have been shown to numb drugs and alcohol.

Unknown person harassing relatives and friends in search

In the process of searching for Jin Fang's relatives and friends, an incident occurred that made the family even more worried about his safety.

"My mother is a very sharing person. She shares her situation on social media every day." That's why Ms. Lim felt abnormal when her mother stopped updating on social platforms. Ms Lin said not everyone knew about John. After her mother collapsed, relatives and friends could only search for family members and friends who suspected John on the Internet, and sent messages to ask about Jin Fang's whereabouts. "But I didn't get an answer."

During this process, a person who claimed to be John's friend contacted Jin Fang's relatives and friends. "However, during the communication process, we found that this person not only did not disclose useful information to us, but instead used our words to ask about our search progress and disrupt our search." Ms. Lin said that this incident made them feel that John Maybe "this so-called friend is not like John himself, which also makes us doubt whether John has an accomplice, and also makes us more worried about the safety of our mother."

Ms Lin said US police had not released any further information about the search. Because the case is now a missing persons case, Ms. Lim was unable to use an emergency visa to travel to the United States to track down her mother.

https://min.news/en/world/cd0dc30b6b582357c745498f78ec4e4e.html

 

[ch_13]

According to the article that @imstilla.grandma posted, Jin Fang's daughter reported that she's been out of contact since July 21. However, the friend of John Fitzgerald says that his final contact was on July 30, and the friend then contacted police on August 10.

Even though they're missing person dates are different, I don't think we've heard before that JRF's last contact was nine days after Jin's. IMO, that does sounds good at all.

 

[Herat]

I'm sort of surprised someone as comfortable with international travel as Jin Fang did not have some sort of Apple Tad or other tracker device on her luggage or in her purse.

It seems unusual that a simple tourist living in China would have a business in Portugal, that deals with international travelers. Because of that, I assume she is fairly well-travelled in Europe and has language capacities for at least English and perhaps Spanish, French, Portuguese or other languages more in use in Europe and other countries.

I also think it would take some entrepreneurial experience to keep a property half the world away and deal with the business aspect. How often would she even be able to travel to Portugal to check up on it? It seems like the kind of business where one would store cash that she doesn't want China to have access to. She may also have other kinds of investment properties outside of China.

So I think she is smart, and relatively affluent and entrepreneurial. Not a simple bus tour traveler who could be easily conned by a tout, as JF seems to come off as. Did she have interests in US properties? Palm Springs area would be the kind of place you could own and operate a homestay, too. Was she traveling with a lot of money, or did JF think she was? Are there real estate agents in the area that speak Mandarin or other Chinese language used in business? Would it be worth contacting one to find out if they had heard from her?

And back to my original thought. I find my Apple tags were invaluable in my travels, and I really liked using them to check the location of my luggage, my backpack, my keys, etc.

 

[AliceInPain]

According to the article that @imstilla.grandma posted, Jin Fang's daughter reported that she's been out of contact since July 21. However, the friend of John Fitzgerald says that his final contact was on July 30, and the friend then contacted police on August 10.

Even though they're missing person dates are different, I don't think we've heard before that JRF's last contact was nine days after Jin's. IMO, that does sounds good at all.

No, his date of last contact July 22, reported missing July 30, announced by police Aug 10.
Acc. to NamUs and Morongo Basin Sheriff's Station.

Missing Person / NamUs #MP106457
Morongo Basin Sheriff's Station FB announcement:
Missing Person: John... - Morongo Basin Sheriff's Station