GUILTY CA - Gianni, 24, & Sal Belvedere, 22, Ilona Flint, 22, San Diego, 24 Dec 2013 - #1

[rizzo0904]

And all I can find is the Ilona worked at a vintage store. Maybe going thru the mall directory could narrow it down.

 

[TravelingBug]

My curiosity is growing...

Salvatore Belvedere of San Diego was found shot around 1:15 a.m. Tuesday in a car parked the 1600 block of Camino Del Rio North. He was taken to a hospital in critical condition, but later died, according to San Diego police Lt. Mike Hastings. Police did not say when Belvedere died.

This wording makes me REALLY think there is more to this... And it's also really making me wonder if he had already far earlier than we were all led to think (as in maybe days ago) for some reason.

The "and later died" makes me think that more than the the part about them not saying when he died (which obviously we know from that other article in the U-T that they sealed the ToD and Cod)...I was thinking maybe it had only been overnight or something. I'm starting to think it was long before that.

They're also backing down a bit on suspect details - more qualifiers, I mean.

Hastings on Tuesday described the possible suspect as a male of unknown race, around 5 feet 9 to 5 feet 11, last seen wearing tan pants and a shirt. He may have fled in dark gray 2008-2011 Honda.

Gianni is described as 6 ft tall.

Having heard them talk about judging the height of someone else on an incident last night, who was only seen in a car, was very interesting.

Someone CLEARLY saw the suspect - b/c now they've given pant colour AND an estimated height, both of which would be virtually impossible with only a passing glance.

Having heard the height discussion just hours ago, I can see how they'd come up with a range, but not with a very, very brief glance (or not a very well-educated guesstimate or a range) but the pants obviously wouldn't have been seen to be described unless someone saw him...somewhere. Whether it was on video footage or in person.

Considering they've said they have a few witnesses and are asking for anyone else who may have been in the area or saw or knows anything to come forward, I'd love to know the source of that info.

Especially since we had SO many changes in what the car colour was from the get go - but somehow tan pants have been consistent from the get go.

If they saw a person at/near the car or with a gun or something, and enough so to have given the pants colour, how would they not have more specifics on other things... Someone saw the pants but didn't get a shirt or hair colour? Or ethnicity? What has them so sure it's the right person when other more notable details don't appear to exist.

And sure, LE could just not be releasing it, but then why bother with the tan pants thing. It's not like that's going to allow anyone to narrow things down or anything...

 

[Curious Me]

I'm so sorry to hear Salvatore has died. The thought that he might have died earlier and it wasn't being announced has crossed my mind too.

There's something strange about how this story has come out that leaves me confused and upset.

Was Ilona working there at the mall, and if so, where was she working? Or were the two or the three shopping earlier? Why was Ilona so calm on the 911 call, and then was found deceased when LE got to her? Why didn't she say Salvatore had been shot too? That's only the tip of the iceberg of questions I have.

Thank You TravelingBug for all your info and thoughts. This is an upsetting case that just keeps raising more questions. Worried for the Families, with the other brother, Gianni, still not found. What a nightmare for the families.

 

[TravelingBug]

And all I can find is the Ilona worked at a vintage store. Maybe going thru the mall directory could narrow it down.

Unless it's only coming from SM sources, the only place I've seen anything about her working somewhere in particular is from KFMB (the same place SDHelps heard the same details last night)

And that's actually about where she worked previously (for the person hosting the vigil) - or at least his reference to the vintage store.

He said Flint worked for him at Briones' vintage clothing boutique in La Jolla for a year-and-half before he closed shop in the spring.

The (his?) only reference to her presently working also seemed to come from him - or the only thing I've seen in the MSM - and that just said that she worked at Mission Valley but wouldn't say where.

As far as it being somewhere vintage, I have to think that may have blurred together with her previous job, or maybe I just have very different standards, but there's not even anything in Mission Valley that I think could even be considered vintage.

Am I missing something possible?

I'm not sure what the reason would be, but this is also really the only person speaking out about her/them. From almost immediately after it happened he had the vigil planned, and we're really not hearing anything else.

That's part of why I think it's a little odd he's talking about her working at the mall and Salvatore picking her up, how he did that often, including when she worked for him, etc. How is it he seems to be kind of in the middle of it all... Why is that? If he's speaking on behalf of the family then that needs to be said (and I don't think he is) IMO

It seems a bit like everyone else may be not speaking out for a reason. It's unusual in a double shooting to have so little said from people who know the victims, and when basically all we do have is from one source, I can't help but wonder how that person became so central (unless they were like a family spokesperson)

I really can't imagine if she worked at the mall that SOMEONE else wouldn't have been on TV or in an article talking about how she was such a great co-worker or something...we're way too many days into this for that not to have happened if it were the case, IMO.

 

[Curious Me]

My curiosity is growing...



This wording makes me REALLY think there is more to this... And it's also really making me wonder if he had already far earlier than we were all led to think (as in maybe days ago) for some reason.

The "and later died" makes me think that more than the the part about them not saying when he died (which obviously we know from that other article in the U-T that they sealed the ToD and Cod)...I was thinking maybe it had only been overnight or something. I'm starting to think it was long before that.

They're also backing down a bit on suspect details - more qualifiers, I mean.



Gianni is described as 6 ft tall.

Having heard them talk about judging the height of someone else on an incident last night, who was only seen in a car, was very interesting.

Someone CLEARLY saw the suspect - b/c now they've given pant colour AND an estimated height, both of which would be virtually impossible with only a passing glance.

Having heard the height discussion just hours ago, I can see how they'd come up with a range, but not with a very, very brief glance (or not a very well-educated guesstimate or a range) but the pants obviously wouldn't have been seen to be described unless someone saw him...somewhere. Whether it was on video footage or in person.

Considering they've said they have a few witnesses and are asking for anyone else who may have been in the area or saw or knows anything to come forward, I'd love to know the source of that info.

Especially since we had SO many changes in what the car colour was from the get go - but somehow tan pants have been consistent from the get go.

If they saw a person at/near the car or with a gun or something, and enough so to have given the pants colour, how would they not have more specifics on other things... Someone saw the pants but didn't get a shirt or hair colour? Or ethnicity? What has them so sure it's the right person when other more notable details don't appear to exist.

And sure, LE could just not be releasing it, but then why bother with the tan pants thing. It's not like that's going to allow anyone to narrow things down or anything...

BBM

Another big question you brought up is who saw something. Be on the look out for tan pants. LE must have some witnesses and we're only getting part of the story. I would think someone heard shots fired and saw something.

Worried why Gianni has not come forward by now. Worried that this story could get more tragic.

 

[TravelingBug]

Andre certainly has done the media rounds.

It looks like every location station has an interview/video with him. He also seems to be the ONLY person talking - really.

Essentially everything about Ilona and Salvatore that hasn't been said out of the mouths of LE or the family at the interview seems to be straight from him.

This was something that I thought was...interesting.

Briones agreed to talk to 10News on the condition that we not ask about her relationships with her fiancé, Gianni Belvedere, and Belvedere’s brother, Sal.

http://www.10news.com/news/vigil-to-be-held-for-victim-in-mall-shooting12262013

Wonder what their families think about that? Maybe it's just not thinking things through on his part, but that sure makes it sound like there's more to the story...

 

[TravelingBug]

I'm so sorry to hear Salvatore has died. The thought that he might have died earlier and it wasn't being announced has crossed my mind too.

There's something strange about how this story has come out that leaves me confused and upset.

Was Ilona working there at the mall, and if so, where was she working? Or were the two or the three shopping earlier? Why was Ilona so calm on the 911 call, and then was found deceased when LE got to her? Why didn't she say Salvatore had been shot too? That's only the tip of the iceberg of questions I have.

Thank You TravelingBug for all your info and thoughts. This is an upsetting case that just keeps raising more questions. Worried for the Families, with the other brother, Gianni, still not found. What a nightmare for the families.

That sure is an understatement! :scared:

The more I read (and now that I've realized the only talker seems to be Andre) the more I really doubt she was working at the mall.

Unless they think a co-worker did it, I don't think that the media would have omitted saying she was leaving work...

And frankly I can't think of a place - nor did I after looking at the mall directory in case I had forgotten something - that fits with what someone indicated she may work at, though I do think that's really a matter of details of her previous job getting mixed into the current reality.

It doesn't make any sense that the families wouldn't have said that anyway (there is no way they are oblivious to the fact that it appears this is a love triangle type of thing) as it would definitely decrease questions and suspicion, as well.

And it wouldn't make sense for him to have been picking her up from work and a family member being unsure why he'd be there with her...

The only way that could make things seem worse (IMO) is if Gianni were also there at the mall - unless he was simply shopping - because then why would his brother have been going to get her and why wouldn't HE have just picked her up.

Or am I missing something?

I think what I'm missing is why Andre is so eager to talk to everyone...that's REALLY got me curious that he's just chatting it up with everyone and he's the ONLY one doing that.

 

[TravelingBug]

Well THIS is interesting:

On Thursday, law enforcement sources told NBC 7 that Salvatore Belvedere had died. However, this has not been confirmed by the family or the hospital, which said it had been asked by the family not to release further information on his condition.

That seems to confirm the fact that the ToD wasn't what they were wanting people to think...And really makes me wonder about the CoD even more since that's sealed, as well (and should be obvious)

Family members said they don’t know why Salvatore Belvedere was at the Mission Valley mall with his brother's girlfriend on Tuesday.

I still don't see how it's possible to reconcile that statement with any possibility of Ilona working there and him picking her up. They would know why he was there.

I'd believe the family members over the friend who seems to be a very loose talker at this point.

http://www.nbcphiladelphia.com/news...ting-Mall-Christmas-237306241.html?akmobile=o

 

[rizzo0904]

Suspect in tan pants and shirt...does that mean the shirt is tan too? Or is tan only a qualifier for the pants?

Khakis really aren't popular anymore...I never see them worn at work. So maybe it's a store uniform. Who wears khakis? Target, Best Buy.

 

[Curious Me]

Andre certainly has done the media rounds.

It looks like every location station has an interview/video with him. He also seems to be the ONLY person talking - really.

Essentially everything about Ilona and Salvatore that hasn't been said out of the mouths of LE or the family at the interview seems to be straight from him.

This was something that I thought was...interesting.


http://www.10news.com/news/vigil-to-be-held-for-victim-in-mall-shooting12262013

Wonder what their families think about that? Maybe it's just not thinking things through on his part, but that sure makes it sound like there's more to the story...

Andre...yeah, he is getting his 15 minutes on tv, but he's only a former employer of Ilona's.

We really need to hear some actual details of what the family knows of that night. I've heard all kinds of versions as to why the two or maybe the three were at the mall. The vagueness of details is what bothers me.

Poking around I see some family on social media urging the public to find Gianni. There's no hint though as to what the family knows or thinks.

There's no hint that Gianni could have been there, and maybe he was abducted by someone else. There's no hint of some other person outside the family being a threat. It's more a plea for him to come back, as though he's on the run.

No one is saying Gianni had any kind of issues. The brothers look real close, and Ilona seems close to both of them. I wish the family could fill in some of the missing info, but at this point it doesn't sound like a stranger shot Ilona and Salvatore. I can only hope one of them got to name who did this to them before they passed away. Any way you look at it, this is a tragedy.

 

[TravelingBug]

Andre...yeah, he is getting his 15 minutes on tv, but he's only a former employer of Ilona's.

We really need to hear some actual details of what the family knows of that night. I've heard all kinds of versions as to why the two or maybe the three were at the mall. The vagueness of details is what bothers me.

Poking around I see some family on social media urging the public to find Gianni. There's no hint though as to what the family knows or thinks. There's no hint that Gianni could have been there and maybe he was abducted by someone else. There's no hint of some other person outside the family being a threat. It's more a plea for him to come back, as though he's on the run.

No one is saying Gianni had any kind of issues. The brothers look real close, and Ilona seems close to both of them. I wish the family could fill in some of the missing info, but at this point it doesn't sound like a stranger shot Ilona and Salvatore. I can only hope one of them got to name who did this to them before they passed away.

That's what concerns me about Andre - he hired her and has called himself one of her best friends, but he's the ONLY one talking and media are treating what he says as if it's gold and utter truth. That scares me...

Mostly because if what he's saying is incorrect, it could mean people are not looking at/for the right things, or making assumptions that may be incorrect, etc.

What you said is what's so puzzling about this. They all seem so close. So would someone be unfaithful to one brother with the other? That just screams of betrayal at a horrific depth...and seems unlikely. Just like it seems unlikely that the brothers would turn on one another - because, as you said, they seem so close.

I'm very curious if more will come out now that Salvatore has died as well.

It sort of seems like they were releasing the little bits they have in smidges. Yesterday we got them looking for Gianni (though we knew he was missing), today we find out Salvatore died (though that was yesterday probably it seems), so that means tomorrow we will get what happened today (in real life time) it seems given the pattern...

The public would be able to be of more help if some things were a bit more clear I think...

 

[katydid23]

if I read between the lines, which is sometimes misleading, I cant help but wonder if Gianni 'caught' his brother and gf together and shot them?

 

[Curious Me]

Was that black car the bodies were found in owned by Salvatore?

Bizarre how some of the news has made it sound as though they were holiday shopping. If it wasn't a stranger, then is Gianni out there desperate and has a gun? Who goes holiday shopping with a gun? Did any of the three own a gun? Was this a heated, anger killing? Was their an on-going situation that suddenly blew up?

I don't understand how these two young people are now dead supposedly from shopping at the mall. I don't want to believe it was done by someone who knew and loved them. Tell me it isn't my imagination that that is what is sounds like. The pain for the families must be unbearable waiting for Gianni to be found.

I realize the news reports have to give limited info as part of the investigation. It is driving me crazy with unanswered questions, but I'm reminding myself to be patient.

 

[Curious Me]

Are they positive that was Gianni seen at the mall on Tuesday? BBM

Family members of shooting victims ask missing person to make whereabouts knownhttp://www.sandiego6.com/story/woma...sion-valley-shopping-mall-identified-20131226

"Gianni Leonardo Belvedere was last seen Monday at 10 p.m. at his residence located in the Tierrasanta community of San Diego, according to the press release issued by the San Diego Police Department. U-T San Diego is reporting that Gianni Belvedere was seen at the Mission Valley shopping mall on Tuesday."


and then


Male victim in parking lot shooting at Mission Valley mall dies
http://www.sandiego6.com/story/male...shooting-at-mission-valley-mall-dies-20131227

"Hastings on Tuesday described the possible suspect as a male of unknown race, around 5 feet 9 to 5 feet 11, last seen wearing tan pants and a shirt. Hemay have fled in dark gray 2008-2011 Honda."

"Meanwhile, police were continuing to search for Flint's fiancé, Gianni Leonardo Belvedere, 24, who was last seen at his residence in Tierrasanta about 10 p.m. Monday."
"Relatives pleaded Thursday for him to come forward."

"We need you right now, please call us,'' sister Antoinette Belvedere said."

 

[Wolf Dreamer]

if I read between the lines, which is sometimes misleading, I cant help but wonder if Gianni 'caught' his brother and gf together and shot them?

I think that's quite a natural direction for thoughts to go in. It's hard to find a logical reason for him to continue to be missing that doesn't include him being somehow involved. I did wonder at one point if it was a murder-suicide as one report said both had been shot in the head, but I've also now seen reports both were shot in the torso?

 

[elmomom]

I think that's quite a natural direction for thoughts to go in. It's hard to find a logical reason for him to continue to be missing that doesn't include him being somehow involved. I did wonder at one point if it was a murder-suicide as one report said both had been shot in the head, but I've also now seen reports both were shot in the torso?

I do know that early reports were that Salvatore had brain injury. !Later reports state that the mE report is sealed. I assuming that he was shot in the head, and I am considering it may be self-inflicted - which would give a reason why LE wanted the report sealed. If it wasn't self-inflicted I do not know why they would choose to seal the COD. Jmo however!

 

[Wolf Dreamer]

What you said is what's so puzzling about this. They all seem so close. So would someone be unfaithful to one brother with the other? That just screams of betrayal at a horrific depth...and seems unlikely. Just like it seems unlikely that the brothers would turn on one another - because, as you said, they seem so close.

Whereas to me it seems absolutely possible that this would happen, it's one of the oldest stories in the world.

 

[SDHELPS]

Andre certainly has done the media rounds.

It looks like every location station has an interview/video with him. He also seems to be the ONLY person talking - really.

Essentially everything about Ilona and Salvatore that hasn't been said out of the mouths of LE or the family at the interview seems to be straight from him.

This was something that I thought was...interesting.


http://www.10news.com/news/vigil-to-be-held-for-victim-in-mall-shooting12262013

Wonder what their families think about that? Maybe it's just not thinking things through on his part, but that sure makes it sound like there's more to the story...

Had to jump on real fast before finishing the work day to respond. I have a neighbor who is a KFMB news anchor and out of privacy I will not mention the name. However, I did ask what he/she thought was going on? They also speculate there is a lot more to the story but cannot report or comment on it but are working a lot of different angles. As of today it seems only Andre is talking to media, hence he is the only one getting the attention.

I know it's not much but thought I would share.

 

[SurfieTX]

Had to jump on real fast before finishing the work day to respond. I have a neighbor who is a KFMB news anchor and out of privacy I will not mention the name. However, I did ask what he/she thought was going on? They also speculate there is a lot more to the story but cannot report or comment on it but are working a lot of different angles. As of today it seems only Andre is talking to media, hence he is the only one getting the attention.

I know it's not much but thought I would share.

He works at Lone Flag. Is that in the mall?

 

[Curious Me]

He works at Lone Flag. Is that in the mall?

The way I understand it, but somebody correct me if I'm wrong.

This Andre who keeps getting on the news, owned a vintage clothing shop, far from the mall, that closed some time ago. Ilona worked for him, but this was last Spring when he still had the shop. He says favorable things about Ilona, but seems to be enjoying the spotlight. I still have no idea how close a friend he was to Ilona. When was the last time he saw or talked to her? :dunno:

Like SDHELPS mentioned, "As of today it seems only Andre is talking to media, hence he is the only one getting the attention."