GUILTY CA - Gianni, 24, & Sal Belvedere, 22, Ilona Flint, 22, San Diego, 24 Dec 2013 - #1

[jggordo]

I agree.

For one thing, these families have long ties in these Italian food ventures and several of the businesses have multiple owners (like 8 and more). Also, there are these facts: Mario's in Lakeside posted that it was changing hands in December, 2013. Ottavio's in Provo was closed in 2009. Ottavio's in El Cajon closed in 2012. Mangia Bene Ristorante Italino in El Cajon, closed in 2013. All of these business are inter-rated by the families. When businesses close, investments are lost.

This was the quote I was looking for. If you look at the Ottavio's in Provo alone that closed in 2009 as a beginning and then go from there. We're not talking about little small time deals here. Very interesting story really how they are all intertwined.

 

[Curious Me]

What if the shooter only realized it was salvatore after he shot him? Maybe after he shot him Ilona yelled "omg, sal!!" And that is how the shooter realized it was not Gianni. At that point, Gianni was hunted down and killed, as well.
IDK. Maybe I'm reaching here, but, Ilona being a victim doesn't fit, for me, unless it was mistaken identity.

JMO

I appreciate that you and others are reaching for any logical answers. We know only a few facts, so anything seems possible. The brothers do look similar enough to be mistaken for each other, IMO.

The person LE is looking for was seen at the mall hours before the shootings. I've heard Ilona was supposedly working and Sal picked her up, but I don't know what time Sal arrived at the mall and if the shooter was following him from home or at the mall. Does anyone know what time Salvatore left his home to pick up Ilona?


New Suspect Description in Christmas Eve Mall Shootings
SDPD lieutenant said, "If this case can be solved, this case will be solved." Friday, Jan 24, 2014 | Updated 11:30 AM PST
http://www.nbcsandiego.com/news/loc...lice-Briefing-Belvedere-Ilona--241839911.html

"Lt. Mike Hastings said the suspect is a man wearing a black hoodie with white bands in the biceps area of the sweatshirt, tan pants and white tennis shoes. He is described as an unknown race, standing 5-foot-10 to 6-foot, police said."

"It's believed that the suspect was at the Mission Valley mall at 11:15 p.m. the night before the shooting and returned to the mall at 12:15 a.m. on Dec. 24."

Source: http://www.nbcsandiego.com/news/loc...Belvedere-Ilona--241839911.html#ixzz2smtJ2sc4

 

[jggordo]

IMO it seems that the shooter was lying in wait to commit these murders. And that LE has it on tape possibly but with the hoodie on don't have facial ID.

 

[Curious Me]

IMO it seems that the shooter was lying in wait to commit these murders. And that LE has it on tape possibly but with the hoodie on don't have facial ID.

I hope you're right and LE does have lots of additional information we don't know about yet.

The mall shootings happened at 1:10 to 1:13 a.m. on Dec. 24, 2013.

The suspect was seen at the mall at 11:15 p.m., and then again at 12:15 a.m.

Where was Gianni at that time?
Gianni was seen a couple hours before the shootings. Ilona was possibly working until the store closed. Was she calling Gianni to pick her up and couldn't get a hold of him?

I think LE has talked to a lot of people and asked them to remain quiet while the investigation continues. I notice no one that may have worked with Ilona or people who worked with the brothers have made any news interviews.

My sincere condolences to the families and loved ones.

 

[thebestinthewest]

I feel like the shooter didn't mistakenly identify any of them if that was the case the family would be hiding. From what I know they're all still working at Marios. Also without getting dinged for speculation I heard from someone close to the family "we hope they catch these guys soon" that makes me think they know it was more than one person

Sent from my SM-N900V using Tapatalk

 

[jggordo]

There was an article from KGTV-10 done January 21 and 24, 2014 in regard to a future "family business" in which Gianni had filed for federal trademarks in his name using family product and such from Provo, Utah. But the trademark address is that of Marios in Lakeside, Ca. I did not know how to link it so you'll have to look it up. But it's an awful lot of coincidences. And they state that 4 detectives went there. Why would they do that just because the brothers worked there?

 

[Peachy]

Thanks for bringing that forward, Curious Me! I had forgotten that TravelingBug had provided us so much information near the beginning.



Rereading early posts about the scanner feed, I got confused about something. I think I originally missed that this is referring to Ilona's actual demeanor/statements; I thought it was referring to what the dispatcher was relaying to others. Was the 911 call audible on the scanner? Is that normal in California or something? TIA for the help!

Scanner audio feeds carry "traffic" between LE / EMS and their respective dispatches, in my experience.

I've personally not heard direct 911 calls when I've had :earson:
ETA: typically, we hear dispatch relay messages from the 911 callers (e.g., "Complaintant states," or "Caller states," etc) over the air.
:twocents:

However, I wasn't on the San Diego feed that fateful night. TravelingBug is definitely the best WSer to answer this one specifically.

Perhaps another WS Scanner expert could chime in as well?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Kimi, that's been my experience as well. I can't recall ever hearing an actual 911 call on the scanner. It's always been the dispatcher and LE or EMS when I've listened.

 

[jggordo]

Sharing another article here.

More detailed information revealed about business started by murder victim Gianni Belvedere
Family idea appears to have come from Utah
http://www.10news.com/news/investig...ess-started-by-murder-victim-gianni-belvedere

Three years after his family was quoted as ready to launch the new business, Gianni Belvedere registered La Primavera as a business in Utah in February 2013. The three-year gap could not be explained through public records requests.

"In April 2013, Belvedere applied for a federal trademark for his business. On that application, he used the address for Mario's in Lakeside. Gianni hired attorney Eric W. Peterson in San Diego for the application. Team 10's calls to Peterson were not immediately returned."

"It can take several months for a federal trademark application to be processed. Once it clears the initial phase, it is published in a federal document and people have 30 days to oppose."

"Belvedere's application was published for opposition on Jan. 7, when he was listed as missing."

Thank you CuriousMe for posting this earlier in this thread. My apology for duplicating the same information but I think this theory does make more sense than love triangles and drugs.

 

[jggordo]

http://www.10news.com/news/live-at-...erence-on-the-belvedere-murder-mystery-012414

"San Diego police officials said they are taking the lead in the Mission Valley investigation and the Riverside probe."

"I understand the want for information in this case. ... I can assure you that if this case can be solved, this case will be solved, and it will be solved lawfully, morally and ethically," Hastings said. "I expect to be releasing additional information if it is significant and as it comes about."

BBM

This another piece of good work from CuriousMe earlier up the thread. Who do you think the statement in bold is directed to? I have never heard LE say something like that in a press release. Almost like I know you know who did this but let us handle it. Or am I reading too much into it?

 

[Curious Me]

Posted on 12-27-2013, 08:32 AM

Those two were my first thoughts as I listened to it all play out.

Once I heard it wasn't just the then believed to be sole female person shot, I was surprised - based on her call.

Then once they said there was an 11-44 (death) I was sure it was the second person.

I don't remember now if they had even stated whether the second person was male or female yet at that point.

Shortly after, when it was said that the one who died was female I was floored. Because that obviously meant that the caller was the one who had died since they hadn't stated it was the RP who died, meaning they couldn't both be female or they'd have to have clarified which one.

I literally said out loud (and I'm not in the habit of talking to myself!) "Wait...what?! She's the one that called 911!"

It all happened SO quickly I seriously was SURE they were mistaken and there were either two females or somebody made a major mistake!

That in that short of time she went from able to call 911 and calmly (whether from shock or not) relay some information, yet be dead when officers got there and not even an attempt to transport her was made because it was clear that was futile just doesn't compute for me. Especially after some other calls where it's pretty clear the person is already dead, but they make a last ditch effort just in case or something...

Interestingly, at least to me, is that in one of the PC's Hastings did, the question isn't fully audible, but clearly about location to some degree. You can get the gist of it in the answer he gave - but I wish he had repeated the question like most do - which was essentially, we can't rule out that they may have moved around some after being shot.

Some of the first page posts are worth bumping, especially because TravelingBug did a great job capturing what she surmised from listening to the scanner. I don't think she actually heard Ilona's voice though? It's not usual to hear the 911 callers, only the dispatchers and officiers on the scanner, but it can tell the story.

 

[jggordo]

I believe there might be some confusion between what TravelBug is / has reported from her hearing the scanner activity. (How she can figure out all that jibberish is to be admired). And that the media for a short time played the actual 911 call. Two separate things entirely. I believe they stopped airing the actual 911 tape once it was discovered that she actually died on the phone. Seconds after she stated "I've been shot". The fact that LE has that wired down to the seconds tells me they have it all on tape.

 

[jash]

I hope you're right and LE does have lots of additional information we don't know about yet.

The mall shootings happened at 1:10 to 1:13 a.m. on Dec. 24, 2013.

The suspect was seen at the mall at 11:15 p.m., and then again at 12:15 a.m.

Where was Gianni at that time?
Gianni was seen a couple hours before the shootings. Ilona was possibly working until the store closed. Was she calling Gianni to pick her up and couldn't get a hold of him?

I think LE has talked to a lot of people and asked them to remain quiet while the investigation continues. I notice no one that may have worked with Ilona or people who worked with the brothers have made any news interviews.

My sincere condolences to the families and loved ones.

BBM - The first time I heard the suspect was seen at the mall twice earlier that night it made me wonder if that person was waiting for Ilona to finish her shift. Seeing you lay out all the times like that makes me question again the perpetrator's familiarity with Ilona's schedule.

Does anyone know what Macy's normal "extended holiday hours" were? Did the shooter expect Ilona's shift to end at 11:00? When she didn't emerge from the store, did he come back every hour? I wonder if Ilona was scheduled to work until 1:00 AM that day, or if she was asked to stay late last minute.

The position of the car still bugs me too. Is that where Sal was parked and waiting for Ilona or did he pick up Ilona elsewhere and they just ended up in that spot?

And I can't wrap my head around the 911 stuff. According to CBS8:
1:10:47 AM - Call is picked up.
1:13:32 AM - "X-Ray said I'm at Mission Valley Westhills Mall"
1:13:55 AM - "Then yelled ouch I've been shot"
1:14:21 AM - "The RP (reporting party) stopped talking"

There is just over 3 minutes from the time Ilona called 911 until she was shot. In those circumstances, that is a LONG time. I just watched the clock, imagining I was in her place, and it felt like an eternity.

Clearly something happened to make her call 911. Why did she (and Sal, if he wasn't hurt at that time) stay in the car after the initial "event"? Why not move the car, honk the horn, run from the car yelling for help? Did she think the danger was gone? Had the suspect left but seeing the light from Ilona's phone through the tinted window made him return? It's frightening to contemplate her last minutes.

 

[Niner]

BBM - The first time I heard the suspect was seen at the mall twice earlier that night it made me wonder if that person was waiting for Ilona to finish her shift. Seeing you lay out all the times like that makes me question again the perpetrator's familiarity with Ilona's schedule.

Does anyone know what Macy's normal "extended holiday hours" were? Did the shooter expect Ilona's shift to end at 11:00? When she didn't emerge from the store, did he come back every hour? I wonder if Ilona was scheduled to work until 1:00 AM that day, or if she was asked to stay late last minute.

The position of the car still bugs me too. Is that where Sal was parked and waiting for Ilona or did he pick up Ilona elsewhere and they just ended up in that spot?

And I can't wrap my head around the 911 stuff. According to CBS8:
1:10:47 AM - Call is picked up.
1:13:32 AM - "X-Ray said I'm at Mission Valley Westhills Mall"
1:13:55 AM - "Then yelled ouch I've been shot"
1:14:21 AM - "The RP (reporting party) stopped talking"

There is just over 3 minutes from the time Ilona called 911 until she was shot. In those circumstances, that is a LONG time. I just watched the clock, imagining I was in her place, and it felt like an eternity.

Clearly something happened to make her call 911. Why did she (and Sal, if he wasn't hurt at that time) stay in the car after the initial "event"? Why not move the car, honk the horn, run from the car yelling for help? Did she think the danger was gone? Had the suspect left but seeing the light from Ilona's phone through the tinted window made him return? It's frightening to contemplate her last minutes.

My question - and I don't believe I've actually seen this anywhere is:

WHY did she call 911 in the first place?? :waitasec: WHAT was she trying to report to 911??

Anyone??

TIA! :wave:

 

[jash]

My question - and I don't believe I've actually seen this anywhere is:

WHY did she call 911 in the first place?? :waitasec: WHAT was she trying to report to 911??

Anyone??

TIA! :wave:

Exactly! What did Ilona say in the 2.5+ minutes from the time her call was answered until she said she was at the mall?

 

[Curious Me]

From reading the comments under the article, we aren't the only ones who think the details of the call lack critical information. There's a news video included here.

Poor Ilona, I don't know why she or Sal didn't blare the horn. :dunno:
I don't know if someone had a gun pointed at her, or if Salvatore had already been shot. She did call 911 for "some kind of help".

911 call reveals new information in triple murder
http://www.cbs8.com/story/24631133/new-details-revealed-in-triple-murder

"A dispatch log obtained by CBS News 8 shows 22-year-old Ilona Flint called for help before she was shot."

BBM

 

[Wolf Dreamer]

Clearly something happened to make her call 911. Why did she (and Sal, if he wasn't hurt at that time) stay in the car after the initial "event"? Why not move the car, honk the horn, run from the car yelling for help? Did she think the danger was gone? Had the suspect left but seeing the light from Ilona's phone through the tinted window made him return? It's frightening to contemplate her last minutes.

If I remember rightly from the photos, the car's front wheels were angled and the car itself was slewed towards a neighbouring car. So possibly they were trying to get away, and Ilona called the police whilst Sal drove - they just didn't get far.

 

[jash]

From reading the comments under the article, we aren't the only ones who think the details of the call lack critical information. There's a news video included here.

Poor Ilona, I don't know why she or Sal didn't blare the horn. :dunno:
I don't know if someone had a gun pointed at her, or if Salvatore had already been shot. She did call 911 for "some kind of help".

<snip>

If someone did have a gun on her, maybe she dialed 911 discreetly and didn't speak to the operator until she thought it was safe to do so. But then I question if the suspect would stick around that long after pointing at a gun at Ilona (and possibly shooting Sal first).

 

[jggordo]

There is a transcription of the dispatcher activity during this time done by Peachy on "scanner Rewind" thread. I don't know if you can quote across threads. I kind of new to this. It does not appear to me (and I could be wrong) that she has the line open while she is dispatching. It looks to me as though she is dispatching at a time starting at 1:14 am. She does seem to say something about noises in the background. Is it possible that someone could bring that info from that thread over to here? Possibly LE can enhance the background noise in the actual recording?

 

[Strangeworld]

From reading the comments under the article, we aren't the only ones who think the details of the call lack critical information. There's a news video included here.

Poor Ilona, I don't know why she or Sal didn't blare the horn. :dunno:
I don't know if someone had a gun pointed at her, or if Salvatore had already been shot. She did call 911 for "some kind of help".

911 call reveals new information in triple murder
http://www.cbs8.com/story/24631133/new-details-revealed-in-triple-murder

"A dispatch log obtained by CBS News 8 shows 22-year-old Ilona Flint called for help before she was shot."

BBM

I can't help but wonder if the killer threatened to hurt Gianni - and that's why Ilona acted the way she did. Maybe they told her they had him held somewhere else. I wonder if she saw Gianni in those final moments, or if he was already dead, or had been taken somewhere else alive.

 

[jash]

There is a transcription of the dispatcher activity during this time done by Peachy on "scanner Rewind" thread. I don't know if you can quote across threads. I kind of new to this. It does not appear to me (and I could be wrong) that she has the line open while she is dispatching. It looks to me as though she is dispatching at a time starting at 1:14 am. She does seem to say something about noises in the background. Is it possible that someone could bring that info from that thread over to here? Possibly LE can enhance the background noise in the actual recording?

Thanks! I just went to take a look. I believe the scanner stuff has to stay in the "parking lot" (also known as the "basement") but here's a link to the post in question: Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community.