CA - Hannah,16,Devonte,15,&Ciera Hart,12 (fnd deceased),Mendocino Cty,26 Mar 2018 #5

[mtnlites]

Here where I live, some European women go topless. It seems the butt floss bikini bottoms are more in now and are covered. Weird.

Anyway, some kids do talk about it. You can get postcards of naked women here right in the grocery store.

Child sex abuse is a huge problem here. Not sure of the correlation between puritan and repression and sex crimes. There are plenty child sex busts in Europe.

I think watching or watching real people have sex can be prosecuted in the US for child sex abuse

There is a huge difference between exposing children to the body in a natural setting, like at home, and exposing children to live or recorded sex.

I was at a nude hot springs once and a family showed up. The kids were very little, I was under the water, and just stayed there until they went up a few pools.... Which I think they did because it was clear none of the adults were pleased.

Thanks @flourish. I was having trouble making that correlation between the two. I assume that some of this is coming from my post, the one in which I said I'd rather my child be exposed to sex than violence and the same post in which I said that we have more freedom with nudity in our house. How THAT got translated into allowing children to watch "" is just another way that things can take on a life of their own.

 

[rosemadderlake]

The photo journalist who took a photo of Devonte heading to the police officer during 2014 protest (not the most viral one) said she visited the Harts house (calling it a crime scene), met and talked to the neighbours for there two hours. Hopefully, we read about it soon Link https://www.instagram.com/p/Bg_3gJQhh1-/ (It is not a MSM link but the journalist's professional account / page on Instagram).
Replying to a poster who asked about this photo few pages back that I can't easily find right now : (


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There is an Instagram page #devontehart with some other photos of Devonte from that same day.

One in particular where it looks like he is trying to smile through his tears. Two expressions are happening at the same time. I think he looks so overwhelmed.

The iconic photo of Devonte is a true lesson. When I first saw it in 2014 I thought it was an officer comforting an overwhelmed child. Then all of the "meaning" ascribed in the "story" of the photo felt amped up, but as a moment it hit all the right buttons of hope in troubled times.

I think as more information has come out about this tragedy and the clear intent of murder/suicide, more people, journalists, will emerge with a deeper look.

It won't bring these babies back, but their voices need to be heard.

I'll never look at iconic photos quite the same...

 

[RickshawFan]

Off-topic, but why is everyone taking Benadryl for allergies? Isn’t non-drowsy Claritin better?

In my house, we keep Benadryl around in case of an allergic reaction (as opposed to seasonal allergies), or as a sedative. The only thing I ever knew about Benadryl is that people use it to knock out their kids on long trips, and it can help with hives during an allergic reaction.

Benadryl actually makes me very hyper: I can't be given it in a medical setting. If these women were trying to grog out the kids on a regular basis, but one or more had a hyper reaction, this could have resulted in BIG consequences for the child.

I use chlorphenarime. It's cheap and it works.

 

[gitana1]

Here where I live, some European women go topless. It seems the butt floss bikini bottoms are more in now and are covered. Weird.

Anyway, some kids do talk about it. You can get postcards of naked women here right in the grocery store.

Child sex abuse is a huge problem here. Not sure of the correlation between puritan and repression and sex crimes. There are plenty child sex busts in Europe.

I think watching or watching real people have sex can be prosecuted in the US for child sex abuse

Allowing children to view pornogrpahy would likely be contributing to the delinquency. Allowing children to view a normal sex act would not be unless you're doing it to achieve sexual gratification from exposing the child to sex. Intent is important. Allowing kids to see sex scenes in a movie that's not rated X would be unlikely to be a crime.

Also, there is a difference between purposefully plopping your kid down to watch two adults mess around and simply not losing your mind if they catch a glimpse in a regular movie or at a hippy fest, or catch you with your spouse or whatever.

In any event, I do agree with those who think that not everything these women did has to be nefarious just because they were abusive. But I do believe that they're focus was on themselves, and what they're children caused them to be seen as, not their children's interests and thus they likely exposed their children to things that weren't harmful, failed to expose them to things they should have and were in general likely insensitive and self-serving when it came to what they did with these children.

Of course no one is ever that black and white. But narcissists as I truly have come to be certain they were, are virtually never motivated by anything other than they're own self interests.

 

[fridaybaker]

One of my daughter's best friends has half of her hair shaved , in a cheetah pattern, just like that. The other side is long.

She has also hah it shaved in zebra pattern, and had words or symbols shaved. She loves it and gets lots of compliments. She is African American and no one has said it is inappropriate to shave it that way.

I am not sure we can point to the women and accuse them of anything nefarious here...the boys may have chosen it themselves at the barber shop. It is a common hair adornment.

https://www.pinterest.com/pin/494973815266981900/

https://www.pinterest.com/pin/402227810440092878/

I guess this may be another instance of perception: It was pointed a few posts back that the Devonte/officer photo could be interpreted in different ways; now I realize that, perhaps in a different circumstance, the hair cuts could be perceived very differently. As a "fun and innocent" thing to do.

Thanks for the difference in perspective.

 

[gitana1]

Y'all think the kids picked their clothes too? [emoji854]


MOO*

Exactly. I think some are missing that these women have been described as exceedingly controlling. Down to forcing a foster kid to have a makeover, pulling kids out of school to avoid scrutiny, intense isolation and punishing their kids with starvation for very minor transgressions.

Or maybe some have not had the pleasure of meeting narcissistic parents. No way in hell were these kids picking out anything they wore or any hair style or anything else for themselves. IMO.

 

[fridaybaker]

Agreed.



There are many different attitudes about nudity and children's exposure to it. And people are free to parent their children accordingly, within the limits of the law. Our nation is rooted in a Puritan ethic that sees the human body, as sinful and something to be kept secret. But not every culture feels that way and not every American feels that way.

I was exposed to naked adults as a kid. Just casually sleeping naked or strolling along. It just made me and my brothers giggle. No trauma and no negative effect for me. I think as long as no one is trying to flash a kid for sexual purposes and the adults don;t freak out and act insane at the possibility that their kid might catch a glance of a naked butt, kids will not be traumatized by that.

I respect that some parents do not want their little kids to see naked adults. That's acceptable but it's just differences in attitudes.

Just a note here that some parents don't see "the human body as sinful" but still think it should be kept "secret"!

 

[gitana1]

Portland did not have an issues with police?

I could you clarify what you're asking? I'm feeling dense right now.

 

[gitana1]

Just a note here that some parents don't see "the human body as sinful" but still think it should be kept "secret"!

Of course. But that cultural attitude originated from the belief in the body as sinful. That archaic belief affected our cultural attitudes today. Why do cultures in developed nations tend to believe the body should be kept secret while those from hunter gather societies for example, do not?

Certain societies were exposed to theories about sin etc., and others were not.

https://books.google.com/books?id=Q...rigin of shame.about the body culture&f=false

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/27283045/

 

[RickshawFan]

Thinking about where they were prior to the crash. My guess is that they were staying with a "friend or friends" between their home and the crash site. I am speculating that the "friend" is too ashamed to reveal themselves or just does not want to be involved in the investigation in any way. Maybe they feel some type of guilt is my guess.

I based this speculation on the vacation in San Francisco. The whole family stayed with that lady in San Francisco for 2 weeks who ended up reporting them for abuse. She was someone they met on Facebook, a complete stranger. They seem like the type to stay with friends rather than pay for a hotel room. Also, Jen "caught" a ride with that man after the rollover on the highway.

Did they get a room for the night after the incident?
Was the car totaled or damaged if they had to ride to their destination with someone else?
Who catches a ride with a stranger with 6 kids? A strange story.

I am convinced they camped. The official "missing persons" bulletin upthread implies a night camping as well. They could have camped for just a few dollars or nothing. They would have known this, since they'd camped before. There are sooo many public (i.e. cheap) campgrounds along that route.

If they camped, and the car wreck was on the spur of the moment, their camp equipment might still be set up at the campground. However, it should be understood that they could have camped at a campground that is empty this time of year (been there, done that) or they could have just set up in a National Forest. There's square mile after square mile of forest. All they had to do was to drive up a river canyon.

I'm not sure I have a timeline. They were in Newport OR in the am, correct? Then the banana purchase in Fort Bragg was a day later in the am? Or maybe I'm mixed up?

While I'm on overnighting issues, it should not be assumed that 400 miles could be covered quickly when driving along the coast road. It would be HOURS of driving. It's slow and twisty. It gets foggy, windy, exposed. I wouldn't be surprised if they'd camped nearer the Oregon border than further south, and the Harts might have been familiar with how easily they could have camped without being seen.

They could even have camped on the beach.

Has there been any discussion about the possibility that the missing kids might have been killed during the night before the car murder?

 

[Sillybilly]

Any further sniping, snark, personal attacks or bickering in this thread and timeouts will be issued.

Post respectfully or don't post.

Thanks.

 

[bluwaters]

I agree.
I also don't doubt that they got some negative feedback on the viral photo.
Could some of that been constructive or angry reaction from African Americans who saw it and were shocked by the image?
That community would be the next to last one Jen would want criticizing her and questioning her motives in adopting those particular children.
The veil was lifted.
Perhaps Jen was exposed in a way she never imagined?

 

[Lilibet]

I am convinced they camped. The official "missing persons" bulletin upthread implies a night camping as well. They could have camped for just a few dollars or nothing. They would have known this, since they'd camped before. There are sooo many public (i.e. cheap) campgrounds along that route.

If they camped, and the car wreck was on the spur of the moment, their camp equipment might still be set up at the campground. However, it should be understood that they could have camped at a campground that is empty this time of year (been there, done that) or they could have just set up in a National Forest. There's square mile after square mile of forest. All they had to do was to drive up a river canyon.

I'm not sure I have a timeline. They were in Newport OR in the am, correct? Then the banana purchase in Fort Bragg was a day later in the am? Or maybe I'm mixed up?

While I'm on overnighting issues, it should not be assumed that 400 miles could be covered quickly when driving along the coast road. It would be HOURS of driving. It's slow and twisty. It gets foggy, windy, exposed. I wouldn't be surprised if they'd camped nearer the Oregon border than further south, and the Harts might have been familiar with how easily they could have camped without being seen.

They could even have camped on the beach.

Has there been any discussion about the possibility that the missing kids might have been killed during the night before the car murder?

BBM

Yes, they were in Newport Saturday morning and Fort Bragg Sunday morning. Although it’s slow-going along the coast, they had to have gotten to Mendocino County (or at least Southern Humboldt) on Saturday in order to be seen on video in Fort Bragg Sunday morning. For all we know, they slept in the car Saturday night at the very turnout Jen used on Sunday night.

Yes, there has been discussion that the missing kids may have been killed prior to the car murder. That certainly broadens the search field. LE seems to think the two missing kids were in the car though. It wouldn’t surprise me if the CPS visit precipitated violence toward the two “rebels.”

 

[gitana1]

What I think people don't realize is just by being self-centered they were liable to be insensitive to their children. You don't have to be conscious and have hate evil or ill will on your mind to do things that fit into that category.

Defensive people in this thread are trying to turn the argument into a superficial good or bad motive this and that but it's more complicated than that. When people see minority and/or children as less they will not think twice about their actions and will place themselves first. Some might even feel insulted when challenged not realizing they're in the wrong. Doesn't remove their culpability though


MOO*

I really agree with your first paragraph. It's not that everything they did to or with these kids was because they're evil and wanted to harm them. But some
of us recognize that probably every single thing they did with or to their kids was as from selfish motives. Not beneficent.

 

[flourish]

We don't know that the Hart children asked for this...


MOO*

That wasn't what I asked.

 

[fridaybaker]

Of course. But that cultural attitude originated from the belief in the body as sinful. That archaic belief affected our cultural attitudes today. Why do cultures in developed nations tend to believe the body should be kept secret while those from hunter gather societies for example, do not?

Certain societies were exposed to theories about sin etc., and others were not.

https://books.google.com/books?id=Q...rigin of shame.about the body culture&f=false

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/27283045/

I don't agree that the concept of keeping the body private (or "secret") originated in the idea that the body, itself, is sinful. However, we can certainly agree to disagree.

 

[human]

Too many reasons to list here. Read some comments on recent articles about the Hart family (like on that recent link - I wish I hadn't read them). Look at how people want to attack Devonte's birth family. Etc. Do you remember how angry everyone was during the Ferguson protests people were? How hateful? Yes, many people were supportive. A lot of people read whatever they wanted to into that picture and found it hopeful or a sign of what could be. And I know it's easy to dismiss everything JH says as a lie, but some people are ugly and when ugly people get see a young black male interacting with a white police officer (no matter the circumstance) they are not sympathetic and they are not shy about letting their feelings known.

Why would angry, hateful trolls NOT let the Hart family know exactly what they thought about the photograph?

I am curiois as I do not remember seeing the picture at the time of Ferguson or maybe I did and have forgotten it.

I am confused as to why someone would be angry. They were angry because they saw Jen mining the situation as that one link that you posted indicates? People were attacking her online?

How did people get her contact info? I never read 4chan or reddit . I think the newspapers such as Oregon monitor comments.

I can see the media getting her address, but after awhile, and very shortly I might add, Americans are on to the next bit of news.

The Pizzagate story got a random guy going to shoot someone so there are some unusual people out there doe sure.

 

[human]

Not sure if it's been already posted here, but these are the missing children posters published by FBI with their full names and dates of birth:
Tweet: https://twitter.com/FBIMostWanted/status/985986719924109312
Site:
Hannah Jean Hart D0B: February 25, 2002
https://www.fbi.gov/wanted/kidnap/hannah-jean-hart/person-view
Devonte Jordan Hart: October 24, 2002
https://www.fbi.gov/wanted/kidnap/devonte-jordan-hart/person-view
Sierra Maija Hart: April 20, 2005 (Cierra Rose)
https://www.fbi.gov/wanted/kidnap/sierra-maija-hart
They asked for info from anyone who has any knowledge of the whereabouts..., including sightings prior to the 'traffic accident.',.... in these locations/ sites the family might have visited/ travelled by:
Ten Mile Beach in Westport, California, near Fort Bragg, California

Russian Gulch south of Fort Bragg, California

MacKerricher State Park in Mendocino County, California

Surfwood Campground in Mendocino County, California

Pinewood Campground in Mendocino County, California

Cleone Campground in Mendocino County, California

Hannah and Devonte are 8 months apart. That means he must have been premature. After having a baby, it takes awhile to heal and then be able to have sex. Two infants. Wow. That is a lot of work

 

[LonelyChild]

Hannah and Devonte are 8 months apart. That means he must have been premature. After having a baby, it takes awhile to heal and then be able to have sex. Two infants. Wow. That is a lot of work

No theyre not biological siblings. Markis, Abigail and hannah are bio siblings. Devonte Jeremiah and Sierra have the same mom and different dads.

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[human]

Thanks @flourish. I was having trouble making that correlation between the two. I assume that some of this is coming from my post, the one in which I said I'd rather my child be exposed to sex than violence and the same post in which I said that we have more freedom with nudity in our house. How THAT got translated into allowing children to watch "" is just another way that things can take on a life of their own.

Um, I was not talking about you at all. I was talking about the correlation between puritanical and sex crimes. I don’t see it. I see that there are plenty of sex crimes everywhere. Nothing at all in the slightest tiniest bit to do with you