CA - Hannah,16,Devonte,15,&Ciera Hart,12 (fnd deceased),Mendocino Cty,26 Mar 2018 #6

[keeleydoll]

There was no driver error. This was absolutely done on purpose. I’m not understanding why people aren’t accepting LE’s account of it?


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[Mira_Eg]

.....My point is, kids can live without the things that are mentioned. As long as they are still properly socialized, provided with some type of education (which I would say needs to include an understanding of basic technology), and taught to be independent then they don't need a cell phone, car, or email address. ......

.. Glad you stated that you don't own a mobile phone, however you can Skype. The children didn't have the device; the medium, neither did they have access to any alternative and most importantly they didn't have the freedom of choice. This applies to many other things including Internet-based devices and driving since they didn't live in a well-connected area in terms of public transportation. Examples given previously, amongst others, are all essential to be taught or offered and then it is up to the teenager to decide.

 

[fridaybaker]

BBM

This has been quoted before, but it may explain the focus on Devonte. Jen, talking about his first night with them, said that she felt more connected to him than anyone ever (what a slap to Sarah). After describing his horrible prior life, she says:

“That night, after we finally got him to sleep, I cried harder than I had ever cried in my life. I felt like there was no way we could raise this child, and the five others we had adopted.”

Yet, she says, there was something inexplicable pulling at her heart.

“I felt more connected to this fragile little boy more than I had ever felt to anyone in my life.”

With their unconditional love, nurturing natures, patience and acceptance, Devonte defied all odds and has grown into a young charismatic man with a heart of gold.
BBM

https://www.huffingtonpost.com/chloe-johnson/meet-devonte_b_6136384.html

Thanks, Llibet. And this is a little about what I was trying to describe. For whatever reason, parents often (usually?) have an affinity to one children over the other(s). Could be that the child is just naturally charismatic, could be that the personalities jibe, etc. However, a good parent will try to "offset" this somewhat, by drawing attention to the others' talents/personalities/lives, etc. and, especially, by making sure the one isn't (at least inordinately so) at the center of photos.

JH stated her unique connection to him to the world. Wouldn't that be difficult for some of the others?

 

[fridaybaker]

Regarding the recent press release on Devonte and Hannah and that they may be "traveling together", does anyone have an idea what this means? Is this something that LE would do strictly as an SOP in this kind of situation, or does anyone think that LE may have changed their assumption that all six children were likely in the vehicle, since the finding of Ciera's body?

 

[Lilibet]

Regarding the recent press release on Devonte and Hannah and that they may be "traveling together", does anyone have an idea what this means? Is this something that LE would do strictly as an SOP in this kind of situation, or does anyone think that LE may have changed their assumption that all six children were likely in the vehicle, since the finding of Ciera's body?

Personally, I just think LE is being thorough and not making assumptions. There is probably a small chance Devonte and Hannah are together, so it makes sense to cover all bases. Privately, they may be fairly sure they were in the car, but we don’t know what further information their investigation has turned up. I’m going to hope for the best, but....

 

[human]

Dependent person

The person who has the addiction (the alcoholic, substance abuser) is referred to as the dependent. It should be noted that in many families, there can be more than one dependent person. In many cases, these are folks who are addicted to the same substance – such as alcohol.

2. Enabler

This person is usually a spouse or significant other. Generally speaking, enablers will do everything possible to make the addictive behavior stop – except what works. Confronting the person living with the addiction or leaving the relationship is not done. Enabling behavior is habitual; it will often continue for many years until something catastrophic happens to the dependent.

3. Family Hero

This is the person in the family who sees and hears what is happening and takes responsibility for the family pain by becoming successful and popular. The hero is often the oldest child in the family unit and quickly forms an alliance with sober members of the family. This person is sometimes thought of as the “good child” or the “angel” and is a source of stability and dependability. Hero’s may over-compensate for dependent person’s behaviors through over-achievement.

4. Family Scapegoat

This is the family member who commonly rejects the family system. The scapegoat is often the second oldest child in the family and gets the family’s attention by developing angry and defiant behaviors. Scapegoats are often blamed for all of the “wrongs” happening in the family. Many times these individuals are referred to as the “black sheep”

5. Lost Child

This is the family member who quietly and unobtrusively withdraws from family system. This is often the third child in birth order who is quickly overwhelmed by older siblings. This person often gives up and tends to be isolated – physically and psychologically.

6. Mascot

In many cases, this is the youngest child within the family unit. This person likes to play the class clown and jokes around a lot to relieve family tension. Conversations with mascots often are superficial because deep, meaningful dialogue can trigger deep pain and shame. Mascots often try to be funny or make light of a given situation in order to relieve family tension or to gain parental attention.

https://www.marrinc.org/roles-in-the-addicted-family-system/

 

[Mira_Eg]

I don't know if these poor dead children would have ended up that way or not

I highly doubt they were allowed to pursue careers esp. the ones with academic background. In an interview from 2014, JH expressed indifference to some 'regular or common' jobs, so did Devonte probably following her guidance. In another interview after the viral photo, she talked about planning to keep 'active', advocating for public causes. I wonder if she wanted this for D. too, assuming it is an easy 'job' and things would stay under her control. But being an activist requires more than a colourful banner hanged around the neck and definitely less rhetorical and infantile discourse about love and so. Even Internet personalities need a set of skills that necessarily involves technology. Professional politicians and public speakers understand political science and macro and micro economics and don't think that hugging the trees will save the universe (and mother Earth of course!). IMO The couple wanted the children around without a clear (and realistic) vision for their (the kids) future then would blame the cruel world.
Another point related to the children's digital image which had been mainly operated and controlled by JH: Cyberbullying is a serious problem now. I wonder if there was any chance for those children to engage in online platforms without being subject for harsh comments and stalking by trolls and 'mean kids'. Plenty of data about them were up there ready to be exploited for any evil purpose.The couple didn't think about this!!!!! Responsible parents don't put their children on display to get more likes and shares. Being different, individualistic, and even eccentric or adopting whatever lifestyle you like is fine as long as this is what you choose and can defend, which was not the case here. jmo

 

[musemoon]

Sadly my youngest daughter was admitted to the pediatric psych ward today but I found it interesting that the doctor listed Benedryl as one of the medications they will be trying with her while she is there. Most likely the Harts used the Benedryl to knock the kids out, but I found it interesting in this context it is being used as a psych med, it is just another thing to wonder.....

 

[gitana1]

Dependent person

The person who has the addiction (the alcoholic, substance abuser) is referred to as the dependent. It should be noted that in many families, there can be more than one dependent person. In many cases, these are folks who are addicted to the same substance – such as alcohol.

2. Enabler

This person is usually a spouse or significant other. Generally speaking, enablers will do everything possible to make the addictive behavior stop – except what works. Confronting the person living with the addiction or leaving the relationship is not done. Enabling behavior is habitual; it will often continue for many years until something catastrophic happens to the dependent.

3. Family Hero

This is the person in the family who sees and hears what is happening and takes responsibility for the family pain by becoming successful and popular. The hero is often the oldest child in the family unit and quickly forms an alliance with sober members of the family. This person is sometimes thought of as the “good child” or the “angel” and is a source of stability and dependability. Hero’s may over-compensate for dependent person’s behaviors through over-achievement.

4. Family Scapegoat

This is the family member who commonly rejects the family system. The scapegoat is often the second oldest child in the family and gets the family’s attention by developing angry and defiant behaviors. Scapegoats are often blamed for all of the “wrongs” happening in the family. Many times these individuals are referred to as the “black sheep”

5. Lost Child

This is the family member who quietly and unobtrusively withdraws from family system. This is often the third child in birth order who is quickly overwhelmed by older siblings. This person often gives up and tends to be isolated – physically and psychologically.

6. Mascot

In many cases, this is the youngest child within the family unit. This person likes to play the class clown and jokes around a lot to relieve family tension. Conversations with mascots often are superficial because deep, meaningful dialogue can trigger deep pain and shame. Mascots often try to be funny or make light of a given situation in order to relieve family tension or to gain parental attention.

https://www.marrinc.org/roles-in-the-addicted-family-system/

I truly see Devonte in the hero role. Performing and overachieving as if his life depended on it.

 

[gitana1]

Sadly my youngest daughter was admitted to the pediatric psych ward today but I found it interesting that the doctor listed Benedryl as one of the medications they will be trying with her while she is there. Most likely the Harts used the Benedryl to knock the kids out, but I found it interesting in this context it is being used as a psych med, it just another thing to wonder.....

Oh no!! Wow. That has to be incredibly rough to go through. I will be thinking about you. Thank you for sharing that.

 

[musemoon]

Oh no!! Wow. That has to be incredibly rough to go through. I will be thinking about you. Thank you for sharing that.

Thanks, Gitana...I just sat for an hour in the parking lot crying...but it's to help her heal...and so...sigh...it is really hard sometimes.

 

[katydid23]

FBI press release saying kids could be traveling together- wasnt sure if it had been posted already so deleted but HERE IT IS!

http://krcrtv.com/north-coast-news/...hildren-could-currently-be-traveling-together

There is one scenario in my head that gives me some hope for the missing 2, being alive and well.

The family had been to Mendocino before. And they have a network of friends from festivals and underground outdoor celebrations.

When I lived in Mendocino, I had several friends who lived entirely, totally off the grid, up in the 'Emerald Triangle' ---growing weed. There are large, organized communities up there that are impenetrable. You cannot go there unless you are literally escorted past the many barricades, electric fences, locked gates, packs of pit bulls, and armed security. Seriously.

There are mountainside communities that the police cannot even get to, unless they fly in by helicopter and bring SWAT in with them. The compounds are built in deep valleys, surrounded by steep mountain gravel roads. If you are able to get past the first fences and gates somehow, you still have to travel a long way up a singular gravel mountain road. EVERYONE can hear and see you coming. So you cannot sneak up on anyone.

People are guarding their million dollar crops and protecting themselves from police raids and from other competitors/growers. So they ain't playing.

MAYBE the Hart's knew some off the grid locals and were invited to go see them. They could have been up there during the 'missing time' before the cliff incident. They would have to be escorted up to the compound and it may have started out fine.

But MAYBE Devonte and Heather staged a rebellion while up in those woods. Maybe they ran off because they saw an opportunity because they were in a very protected environment. Maybe the women figured out that they could not do anything about those 2 at that time, so they chose to leave and try and figure out what to do next.

Maybe they just gave up because they knew the 2 escapees were going to reveal the awful secrets?

If something like this happened, then it makes sense that the kids have not come forward yet. They could easily be incorporated into that 'off the grid' community and have a new sense of family and safety. They may just want to stay away from all of the ugliness and drama for now?

 

[Talullah]

A great thing about camping is learning survival skills. Devonte is likely more comfortable outdoors than most kids his age, and learned a lot about cooking, finding clean water to drink and knowing what plants are edible, etc., by watching the women who adopted him. I pray he’s somewhere safe using those skills.
M

 

[Gooddeeds]

https://www.fhwsolutions.com/obituaries/chapel-by-the-sea/[/URL][/

What’s the chances of each individual persons obituary on this site saying the same thing? Its as though the names & dates are dropped in. There are no details on the services for anyone...not of only just the Harts. That’s odd though it most likely is their protocol but its just a weird twist of fate in relation to these sweet children.

 

[Mira_Eg]

Regarding the recent press release on Devonte and Hannah and that they may be "traveling together",....

Was it a new press release? The same words were in the FBI missing persons posters days ago: "The missing children could currently be traveling together and may have last been seen with their family members traveling in a brown 2003 Yukon XL SUV with tinted windows, which is the same vehicle that crashed."
https://twitter.com/FBIMostWanted/status/985986719924109312

LE: On 28-03, Mendocino County Sheriff Tom Allman told reporters : "We know that an entire family vanished,".... "This is a tragic week for Mendocino County." We have every reason to believe all six children were in there..... " Some reports published on 28th and 29th used "presumed dead" for the three 'missing' children.

http://www.ktvu.com/news/3-kids-sought-after-cliff-crash-kills-family
http://denver.cbslocal.com/2018/03/29/family-presumed-dead-van-california-cliff/

 

[human]

There is one scenario in my head that gives me some hope for the missing 2, being alive and well.

The family had been to Mendocino before. And they have a network of friends from festivals and underground outdoor celebrations.

When I lived in Mendocino, I had several friends who lived entirely, totally off the grid, up in the 'Emerald Triangle' ---growing weed. There are large, organized communities up there that are impenetrable. You cannot go there unless you are literally escorted past the many barricades, electric fences, locked gates, packs of pit bulls, and armed security. Seriously.

There are mountainside communities that the police cannot even get to, unless they fly in by helicopter and bring SWAT in with them. The compounds are built in deep valleys, surrounded by steep mountain gravel roads. If you are able to get past the first fences and gates somehow, you still have to travel a long way up a singular gravel mountain road. EVERYONE can hear and see you coming. So you cannot sneak up on anyone.

People are guarding their million dollar crops and protecting themselves from police raids and from other competitors/growers. So they ain't playing.

MAYBE the Hart's knew some off the grid locals and were invited to go see them. They could have been up there during the 'missing time' before the cliff incident. They would have to be escorted up to the compound and it may have started out fine.

But MAYBE Devonte and Heather staged a rebellion while up in those woods. Maybe they ran off because they saw an opportunity because they were in a very protected environment. Maybe the women figured out that they could not do anything about those 2 at that time, so they chose to leave and try and figure out what to do next.

Maybe they just gave up because they knew the 2 escapees were going to reveal the awful secrets?

If something like this happened, then it makes sense that the kids have not come forward yet. They could easily be incorporated into that 'off the grid' community and have a new sense of family and safety. They may just want to stay away from all of the ugliness and drama for now?

That sounds possible, The commu nity would see no meed to release the children. Where would they go? Do they have schools and other children?

 

[PearlClutcher]

thanks, gitana...i just sat for an hour in the parking lot crying...but it's to help her heal...and so...sigh...it is really hard sometimes.

(((hugs)))

 

[katydid23]

That sounds possible, The commu nity would see no meed to release the children. Where would they go? Do they have schools and other children?

They have communal type home-schools. But they are very serious and committed to their children. They do actually teach them and educate them. At least the community I knew did.

They had organized class time for all of the kids and the older ones helped the younger ones. And there were tests and mandated curriculum which the state gave to the home school teachers. The students do get their GEDS and typically go to the community college. I was friends with one of the parents who helped teach the students. We went to UC Berkeley together. She was very involved in the educational process.

 

[human]

They have communal type home-schools. But they are very serious and committed to their children. They do actually teach them and educate them. At least the community I knew did.

They had organized class time for all of the kids and the older ones helped the younger ones. And there were tests and mandated curriculum which the state gave to the home school teachers. The students do get their GEDS and typically go to the community college. I was friends with one of the parents who helped teach the students. We went to UC Berkeley together. She was very involved in the educational process.

Let us hope,

 

[mtnlites]

There is one scenario in my head that gives me some hope for the missing 2, being alive and well.

The family had been to Mendocino before. And they have a network of friends from festivals and underground outdoor celebrations.

When I lived in Mendocino, I had several friends who lived entirely, totally off the grid, up in the 'Emerald Triangle' ---growing weed. There are large, organized communities up there that are impenetrable. You cannot go there unless you are literally escorted past the many barricades, electric fences, locked gates, packs of pit bulls, and armed security. Seriously.

There are mountainside communities that the police cannot even get to, unless they fly in by helicopter and bring SWAT in with them. The compounds are built in deep valleys, surrounded by steep mountain gravel roads. If you are able to get past the first fences and gates somehow, you still have to travel a long way up a singular gravel mountain road. EVERYONE can hear and see you coming. So you cannot sneak up on anyone.

People are guarding their million dollar crops and protecting themselves from police raids and from other competitors/growers. So they ain't playing.

MAYBE the Hart's knew some off the grid locals and were invited to go see them. They could have been up there during the 'missing time' before the cliff incident. They would have to be escorted up to the compound and it may have started out fine.

But MAYBE Devonte and Heather staged a rebellion while up in those woods. Maybe they ran off because they saw an opportunity because they were in a very protected environment. Maybe the women figured out that they could not do anything about those 2 at that time, so they chose to leave and try and figure out what to do next.

Maybe they just gave up because they knew the 2 escapees were going to reveal the awful secrets?

If something like this happened, then it makes sense that the kids have not come forward yet. They could easily be incorporated into that 'off the grid' community and have a new sense of family and safety. They may just want to stay away from all of the ugliness and drama for now?

I don't care if this is what really happened to the other two or not, but it's what I've decided that I am going to believe until LE informs us otherwise.