Identified! CA - Huntington Beach, WhtFem 40UFCA, 18-30, poss name Andrea, Apr'90 - Andrea Kuiper

[webrocket]

I know some years back there was a movement to make it easier to unseal adoption records. the reasons lawmakers often used to justify it was that adoptees needed access to medical history of biological parents. I do recall some backlash from the birth mother community where usually through representative spokespersons indicated that as far as they were concerned it was an ironclad promise by the state when they entered into the adoptions that it was over and done with.

many of these women had moved on with their lives and had families of their own and whether their husbands knew about the prior birth, they often did not want their children to know. so you can imagine their fury that in some states, their privacy was unsealed and they got the unwelcome knock on the door.

a private placement adoption works best for most people in the long run in my opinion. I guess the lesson here is that if a toxic combination of adoptee curiosity, teenage rebellion, soul searching and pure defiance takes hold, otherwise blameless adoptive parents get the brunt of it and they can wind up with a runaway adoptee who had all the creature comforts in life he or she would never have had if the adoption had not taken place.

 

[sloane7777]

has Paulette Susan Jaster been submitted yet? that does seem like a perfect match, and I wonder if the black stone has any Goth meaning that i dont know about?

 

[killarney rose]

has Paulette Susan Jaster been submitted yet? that does seem like a perfect match, and I wonder if the black stone has any Goth meaning that i dont know about?

She looks like a possibility- especially the nose.

 

[Roselvr]

The only missing canadian girl I found that made me look twice was this girl

http://www.doenetwork.org/cases/312dfon.html

I excluded her because while one picture has a resembalnce to Andrea the other one looks nothing like Andrea. However, when searching for other pictures of this girl I found a post by a half sister who did mention adoption, thus I thougt it was worth posting this girl here.

mjak

I found the board & posted for them to check Andrea out.
I took the mention of adoption to mean the sister that posted was adopted; not Amber. The resemblance is close enough for those that knew her to see if it should be looked into further.

 

[CarlK90245]

I'm thinking there might be a bit of admixture in her. Though she appears to be primarily Caucasian, there might be some AA or Hispanic ancestry a couple of generations back.

... but I'm pretty sure she's not Shannon Potter or Christina Monteiro. Andrea's nose is more turned up than either of their noses, and her nose is clearly is clearly turned up like that naturally, not the result of the accident. Andrea had a very large laceration on her forehead, and her right eye was blackened, but the rest of her face was undamaged.

The spacing of her facial features reminds me of Paulette Jaster, but I'm sure that she is not Paulette either.

has Paulette Susan Jaster been submitted yet? that does seem like a perfect match, and I wonder if the black stone has any Goth meaning that i dont know about?

She looks like a possibility- especially the nose.

I had mentioned Paulette earlier. She does look quite similar to Paulette, but I really don't think she is Paulette. PJ does have a similar nose, and basically the same facial shape, but she would have been 36 in 1990.

 

[mjak]

I found the board & posted for them to check Andrea out.
I took the mention of adoption to mean the sister that posted was adopted; not Amber. The resemblance is close enough for those that knew her to see if it should be looked into further.

I was unclear if it was the half sister who was adopted, Amber or both of them. I also read further in the thread and it stated that Amber's biological father was Cree indian. I Immediatly thought of Andrea's dark hair and skin. Andrea was also found with a motel key and Amber was alledged to have left all her stuff abandoned in a motel. Oh appearance I don't think there is a really strong match, but there is a resembalance, but there dose seem to be a lot of circumstantial information that could be consistent. When I look at the doe network listing for Amber I do not see DNA listed, however in that thread there is mention of DNA. Obviously DNA would give a conclusive answer. Do I think Amber is Andrea probably not. The problem is I can only say probably and would love to see her conclusivly ruled out.

mjak

 

[Roselvr]

I am bringing Montanamans post forward to show some important information I think. First of all, her age. If she left home before she was 16, she probably would not have had a driver's license. If she was living on her own and on the street, she would not have been able to get one. I am assuming she probably had her SS card since she said she was working, but then again she could have been working for cash as an undocumented worker. That could be a very good reason she did not have any ID.....

I also wonder if Montanaman's Andrea was living with a relative. I'm thinking of Jodi Riley Wilson (in my sig) who left NJ a few years ago to live with her aunt in OK. If MM's Andrea was adopted; "sending her" to live there may work out better then having a teen with "emotional issues" stemming from the adoption; living in their home; especially if they were well known where they lived. It's possible she turned 18 & left.

I still feel a FB page would not hurt. We'd be able to get MM's story out there; possible someone will read it & realize she should have been reported missing but was not.

And I had forgotten about "all the jewlery she was wearing". Maybe this is how she was getting money. Pawning her jewelry. If she didn't have anything with her, she was out of jewelry to pawn therefore out of money. Montanaman said she was in Seattle around 88/89 which is just a year or so before she died. If it was truly silver jewelry she could probably live a while off of each post.

Silver wasn't that expensive back then IIRC

I just feel this Andrea and Montanamans Andrea are the same person. Too many similarities and the stories she told him seem so much like this Andrea. This girl is so close to being identified, but I am not smart enough to figure out how to find the last name of Big Mouth Andrea.:banghead:

IMO; most of us feel this is probably true.

 

[Roselvr]

I was unclear if it was the half sister who was adopted, Amber or both of them. I also read further in the thread and it stated that Amber's biological father was Cree indian. I Immediatly thought of Andrea's dark hair and skin. Andrea was also found with a motel key and Amber was alledged to have left all her stuff abandoned in a motel. Oh appearance I don't think there is a really strong match, but there is a resembalance, but there dose seem to be a lot of circumstantial information that could be consistent. When I look at the doe network listing for Amber I do not see DNA listed, however in that thread there is mention of DNA. Obviously DNA would give a conclusive answer. Do I think Amber is Andrea probably not. The problem is I can only say probably and would love to see her conclusivly ruled out.

mjak

From what I understand of the post; both parents gave DNA.
We do not have her actual morgue photo & I'm not doubting Carl's ability; but he says there are things that still bother him with the recon. Between the sketch & what you pointed out; there are enough similarities that they should check into it.

 

[Roselvr]

I also wonder if Montanaman's Andrea was living with a relative. I'm thinking of Jodi Riley Wilson (in my sig) who left NJ a few years ago to live with her aunt in OK. If MM's Andrea was adopted; "sending her" to live there may work out better then having a teen with "emotional issues" stemming from the adoption; living in their home; especially if they were well known where they lived. It's possible she turned 18 & left.

I still feel a FB page would not hurt. We'd be able to get MM's story out there; possible someone will read it & realize she should have been reported missing but was not.

It's also possible she would not have told MM that it was a relative.

Wow! Thanks, Carl! She looks really different than I imagined "Andrea" as looking from the sketch provided by Orange County. She looks a bit like Shannon Potter to me --

https://www.findthemissing.org/en/cases/1868/8
http://doenetwork.org/cases/356dfmd.html
http://www.charleyproject.org/cases/p/potter_shannon.html

yet she also reminded me of Christina Monteiro enough to wonder about possible admixture. She is probably not Christina Monteiro, though because she has tattoos that the UID does not have.

https://www.findthemissing.org/en/cases/7827/72

Up to this point, the only UID from Orange County that I have see a post mortem photo of (and thus compared with their sketch) is the unidentified homicide victim from Garden Grove (http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=170281).

Were these ever called in?
It really aggravates me that her NamUs page isn't updated with rule outs.

My own feeling is, Andrea is going to be found through searches of girls who went missing in 1989 to 1990. I just don't think she had been on the street that long. It may be simplistic but, I figure if someone cared enough about her to pay for 'excellent' dental care (coroner in an OC article), then they would have cared enough to report her missing.

Didn't they say she was thought to recently have work done?

NamUs
Doe

Dentals: Her teeth showed signs of previous orthodontics and she had received dental care shortly before her death.

Did they eventually cremate her remains and scatter them at sea as they said they would? Out of curiosity, how long are Doe,s stored before laid to rest?

Good question

Here is where my thinking is going at the moment. The stone and hair ring make me think of some sort of coven. The substance abuse and general inconsistencies as well as her age lead me to believe that some form or degree of mental illness had manifested. That said, the cocaine could have brought forth or exaserbated that instability. Perhaps she was cocaine paranoid, who knows.

Do we know if there was a tox screen?

The one possible aquaintance from the punk scene says she had a Seattle area accent. Well could that have been Vancouver instead? Perhaps she is Canadian?

If her dental work was carefully documented, I still say that will be the point if discovery. Work like that is still a luxury today. A full mouth of porcelein crowns today is a good 50 grand

Do we know if there is a difference between Canadian & US dental work?
The crown cost could be minimum depending on insurance. I had work done in the 90's with great insurance; co pay was minimum.

 

[CarlK90245]

Did they eventually cremate her remains and scatter them at sea as they said they would? Out of curiosity, how long are Doe,s stored before laid to rest?

Good question

IIRC, one news article said that the remains are held for about 3 years before being cremated and disposed of at sea.

Here is where my thinking is going at the moment. The stone and hair ring make me think of some sort of coven. The substance abuse and general inconsistencies as well as her age lead me to believe that some form or degree of mental illness had manifested. That said, the cocaine could have brought forth or exaserbated that instability. Perhaps she was cocaine paranoid, who knows.

Do we know if there was a tox screen?

Yes, there was both alcohol and cocaine in her system.

 

[Roselvr]

using the given date of birth and first name, I found an Andrea from MA at ancestry.com.

using other people finder sites (the free teaser info, not anything paid for) the same person shows up with a married name living in Ohio.

I've used this same sort of system to find lost classmates and it has always worked out to be accurate.

Thank you. Some how I missed a bunch of posts

Andrea: coroner case # 90-01853-LY

Information from archive articles in the Orange County Register. Direct links to each article cannot be posted as these are paid-for articles and the link expires. Can be retrieved by a search under jane doe, andrea in OC Reg archives.

Respectfully snipped.
Hitting the thanks button was not enough to tell you how appreciated your hard work was!

‘I see this as a girl who ran away, a bohemian type, into some kind of a scene – maybe a follower of a certain kind of music, what used to be called punk but is something different now. Her clothing is almost like a costume – thrift store stuff’; Bruce Lyle, supervising deputy, OC Coroner’s Office, April 14, 1990.

Montanaman; be sure to read what Zwiebel posted.

I found the board & posted for them to check Andrea out.

I went back to add Andrea's links; there is no post by me; so now I'm not sure if I ever submitted it. I have so many tabs open; possible it's in one of them

I need more coffee!

Yes, there was both alcohol and cocaine in her system.

Thanks Carl. I didn't remember if we knew that & just saw what Zwiebel posted; still have to fully read it

 

[Jerri Blank]

you take a few days off to get pummeled by a blizzard and look what you miss!

Zwiebel, thank you for compiling all that info from the articles you were so kind to purchase, same to you Carl!

i am leaning toward taking anything Andrea said to the people she met in CA as fantasy/delusion. maybe she was adopted. maybe she was from virginia. but its just as likely she was a runaway. it's just as likely she was from chicago. or florida. or seattle... her transient life, her drug use and her ultimate end point to some form of mental illness (IMO), and i think she is what a writer may call "an unreliable narrator" when it comes to her life story.

i am toying with the idea of pursing the one potential lead we have on who MM's Andrea is - that she lived/worked for an elderly woman. i am thinking of tossing some posts out on seattle area forums asking if anyone remembers her. maybe they hired her to care for their mother or they remember the goth chick that used to take care of grandma? do you all think that would be a waste of time?

 

[webrocket]

i am toying with the idea of pursing the one potential lead we have on who MM's Andrea is - that she lived/worked for an elderly woman. i am thinking of tossing some posts out on seattle area forums asking if anyone remembers her. maybe they hired her to care for their mother or they remember the goth chick that used to take care of grandma? do you all think that would be a waste of time?

if you posted such an inquiry online, the worst thing that would happen Jerri is that your post is ignored so there is no harm in it.

 

[nannymo]

I don't think she is among any current listings of missing persons. From what she told her new friends, it appears that she left her adoptive family to search for her birth parents.

If she was reported missing, the Police probably saw this as no sign of foul play, and therefore, no urgency. It is very possible that even if her adoptive parents showed up at the police station to report her missing, they would have told them that she's an adult and has the right to go missing.

But I suspect that her adoptive parents didn't even do that. They may have just decided that she had left them and found her birth family and didn't want to come back.

You are probably right. This would be a good reason for never reporting her. I have good friends who adopted siblings from foster care. All three of their children left home and never returned to their adoptive parents home. Everything seemed ok to friends, but apparently it was not ok to the kids. But that still did not keep the adoptive parents from keeping up with their whereabouts. They did still care.

 

[zwiebel]

This is a bit off the wall, but interesting. This artist, Ilene Sova, is undertaking a project of painting a large-scale portrait of EVERY woman who's gone missing in Ontario from 1970-2000. And she is researching everything she can get hold of about each person too.

I suspect her likenesses are good - two look very familiar to me. Does anyone think it would be worth sending her a link and/or a pic of our Andrea, and asking her to keep our Andrea's face in her mind, during her researches?

http://ilenesova.ca/section/160058_Missing_Women.html

 

[nannymo]

This is a bit off the wall, but interesting. This artist, Ilene Sova, is undertaking a project of painting a large-scale portrait of EVERY woman who's gone missing in Ontario from 1970-2000. And she is researching everything she can get hold of about each person too.

I suspect her likenesses are good - two look very familiar to me. Does anyone think it would be worth sending her a link and/or a pic of our Andrea, and asking her to keep our Andrea's face in her mind, during her researches?

http://ilenesova.ca/section/160058_Missing_Women.html

It certainly would not hurt at all. She obviously has an eye for details of facial features. She also must have a huge heart to paint these missing women. Go for it!

 

[zwiebel]

I will. You never know, it might attract her attention to Andrea's case here and research skills are only ever welcome. Also, this artist seems to have a high public profile and be very committed to the cause of missing women.

I'll let you all know any response.

By the way - anyone affected by this blizzard, I hope you are all safe and well!

 

[zwiebel]

Louis Hannah. Very last person to come up on my search here. I think the nose is a match and hair, eyes, height are okay. But the jaw is too square and lips too thin?

http://www.missing-u.ca/MPDetail.aspx?PersonID=295

 

[Roselvr]

Going to be busy today... wanted to check in & let everyone know there has been no reply to my post on the Amber thread on another board

 

[Roselvr]

i am toying with the idea of pursing the one potential lead we have on who MM's Andrea is - that she lived/worked for an elderly woman. i am thinking of tossing some posts out on seattle area forums asking if anyone remembers her. maybe they hired her to care for their mother or they remember the goth chick that used to take care of grandma? do you all think that would be a waste of time?

Did you read what my thoughts were on this? I'll add them below.
I think what you want to do would be a great idea

I also wonder if Montanaman's Andrea was living with a relative. I'm thinking of Jodi Riley Wilson (in my sig) who left NJ a few years ago to live with her aunt in OK. If MM's Andrea was adopted; "sending her" to live there may work out better then having a teen with "emotional issues" stemming from the adoption; living in their home; especially if they were well known where they lived. It's possible she turned 18 & left.

I still feel a FB page would not hurt. We'd be able to get MM's story out there; possible someone will read it & realize she should have been reported missing but was not.