CA - Joey, Summer, Gianni, Joseph Jr McStay Murders - Feb 4th 2010 #10

[missy1974]

Thanks, wary!

In furtherance of my reply above, I don't believe that CA asking for the DP has any bearing on his actual guilt, nor do I believe that a circumstantial evidence case is any weaker than a direct evidence case. I watched CSI in its infancy but don't cotton to the notion that 'if the video doesn't exist, you must acquit'.

When you tie all of the circumstantial evidence in this case together, CM is the killer of a family of four, and deserves whatever punishment the jury believes fits the crime.

I think if the jury can give him life instead of the DP, it may be easier to convict. I wonder if they will know that before deliberations? Anyone know?<modsnip: Do not get into general discussion regarding the DP>

 

[missy1974]

Before posting again in this case, please take note of the following:

STOP personalizing posts. Timeouts will be forthcoming if this manner of posting continues.

Emotions are running high and reading through the last thread the tension is palpable against anyone who presents an opposing view. Differences of opinion are to be expected and are allowed as long as the discussion remains civil and respectful. Looking at something from another angle is the foundation of this forum community. To expect members from all over the world and all walks of life to think the same is unrealistic.

If you don’t agree with a post, either scroll and roll or put the other member on ignore. Do not announce that you are placing someone on ignore- just do it.

Stick to the facts and use links to back up your assertions. If you see a problematic post, hit the alert/report button and move on.

Click the "like" button to indicate that you have read this post.

bumping

 

[Texas Red]

I would definitely have to agree with this after listening to Boles testimony. What I posted earlier was just a drop in the bucket of what all came out lol There was another question he didn't want to answer before 'conferring with AT&T', I think it was about the cell reception where CM lived. Calls that were hitting towers near his place 1 minute, 18 miles away the next minute. Scary stuff that these are relied upon to interrogate witnesses (like we saw in the small clip of Merritt's interview) and to put people away. JMO

“Calls that were hitting towers near his place 1 minute, 18 miles away the next minute.”

If you recall we discussed this matter in the threads early on, I believe it was thread #3 or less. I explained how calls in the area to my phone were constantly dropping and when they reconnected the phone had gone into roam mode indicating it had connected to some distant tower.

That’s why I had received a letter from Sprint (uploaded and posted here) explaining how they were voiding the contract because I was overusing the free roaming being provided. IMO the cell towers back then in that area were defective resulting in erroneous location data. I hope the defense team is aware of this, perhaps, I’ll send them an email, informing them just to make sure they know about it.

 

[missy1974]

“Calls that were hitting towers near his place 1 minute, 18 miles away the next minute.”

If you recall we discussed this matter in the threads early on, I believe it was thread #3 or less. I explained how calls in the area to my phone were constantly dropping and when they reconnected the phone had gone into roam mode indicating it had connected to some distant tower.

That’s why I had received a letter from Sprint (uploaded and posted here) explaining how they were voiding the contract because I was overusing the free roaming being provided. IMO the cell towers back then in that area were defective resulting in erroneous location data. I hope the defense team is aware of this, perhaps, I’ll send them an email, informing them just to make sure they know about it.

If I have time, I will go back and see if I can find what exactly Boles looked at, in regards to time-frame. I think it was limited. I don't think he looked at the "history", if that makes sense. And he did not have a clear understanding of what AT&T did and did not record in their Call Detail Records. IMO

 

[Alisajo]

whose home was secluded/isolated? the Mcstays had many neighbours

IIRC 3474 Avocado Vista Ln, Fallbrook is the McStay's former home. The house is in the community of Lake Rancho Viejo. Their wedsite - www.lakeranchoviejohomes.com - 1st page, Community Information states;- "Lake Rancho Viejo is a secluded community in Fallbrook, California".
It is 11 miles from downtown Fallbrook.

 

[mrjitty]

And you are free to disregard it. I would agree that the defense implying things doesn't make it true and it needs to be "proven".... but I also feel the same for the prosecution. There are a lot of things in this case that does not have evidence to support the theory. JMO

Ok but you were the one saying there is call evidence to support this alternate accounting theory

So I am asking you what evidence indicates the cheques were discussed on the calls?

AFAIK there is no evidence before the court.

Chase and JM talked many times per day.

Proximity of calls shows nothing

 

[mothwings]

I think if the jury can give him life instead of the DP, it may be easier to convict. I wonder if they will know that before deliberations? Anyone know? It seems to be widely known though that in California, that they don't actually apply the death penalty?

I just did a quick google search.... says the last execution in California was in 2006???? Why do they even still have the DP if they aren't actually putting them to death???

I think the reason is because it's a huge factor into where he will be placed in prison, his confinement, his restrictions and no-contact visitations. I know in Arizona that is how it is. DP prisoners are basically in a cell 23 hours a day with very few privileges. I remember Sierra Lamar's father saying that's why he was disappointed because of how life-sentenced prisoners have so many privileges in California. I think it also will help the prisoner reflect on his crime. I'm just not sure with all those appeals, that it is worth it.

 

[Texas Red]

This doesn't work for 2 reasons

1. At midday on the 5th, how could he know "Joey was not around"?

2. He must have created the first Paul Mitchell Cheque in Joey's office

I am yet to see one solid explanation for the backdating amongst the "non traditional accounting" theories

1. At midday on the 5th, how could he know "Joey was not around"?

It’s possible early on CM didn’t know. It’s not vital that he knew immediately JM was missing since it was something he’d been doing all along anyway.

2. He must have created the first Paul Mitchell Cheque in Joey's office

IMO data retrieved from the office computer is not reliable because the computer had been removed from the house and was in the possession of others.

 

[Tortoise]

Ok but you were the one saying there is call evidence to support this alternate accounting theory

So I am asking you what evidence indicates the cheques were discussed on the calls?

AFAIK there is no evidence before the court.

Chase and JM talked many times per day.

Proximity of calls shows nothing

It's interesting because one poster who uses QB (IIRC) said that two users can't both access the program at the same time. One could make the argument that Chase was calling to find out what Joey was doing before he went on there, or if afterwards to find out if Joey had noticed anything he'd just done. If one wanted to speculate, like the defense

 

[LadyL]

Other than your assumption that Chase is the killer here, what evidence is there that Chase had no boundaries.

gambling excessively and defrauding/stealing are both examples of someone living outside boundaries

 

[missy1974]

Ok but you were the one saying there is call evidence to support this alternate accounting theory

So I am asking you what evidence indicates the cheques were discussed on the calls?

AFAIK there is no evidence before the court.

Chase and JM talked many times per day.

Proximity of calls shows nothing

Listen... I have said they have implied it, I don't think I said it's "proof". I have actually even shown where in the testimony the "theory" is coming from. When watching the testimony, listening to the questions and answers and even the questions that are objected to, I can see where the defense is going with it or what they are implying, this is what JMarsh has been saying and I was coming to their defense because I'm tired of people asking him/her if they are related and/or part of the defense team because some disagree. I can also see what they are implying based off of what I've heard... I'm not related, and I definitely don't work for the defense, I live in friggen Canada haha If you are watching everything, putting together the defenses theory of what took place is easy. When they present their case, we will see what they can and cannot prove. IMO

The calls were not recorded, and unless they have text messages or emails or something in writing indicating that it's possible this is what they were doing (financially), I doubt they will be able to prove it. But there a lot of things that there is no proof of in this case, wouldn't you agree?

There is no proof that Chase was getting fired that day, there is no proof that Joey "just found out" about the Feb 2nd cheque, there is no proof he called the bank to ask about said cheque.... I could go on, but I won't. It doesn't stop the prosecution or anyone from using that "theory".

All JMO

 

[Niner]

No - day 25 was the hearing and was audio only. Day 26 was this past Thursday when they had the camera back in the courtroom and it still hasn’t been uploaded to YouTube.

Actually I wasn't counting 2/27/19 since the jurors were off that day.... I guess I can change it as Day 25.

 

[Texas Red]

Yes

This is one of the issues with passage of time. As I understand it, actual ping data (i.e phone shaking hands with towers) is all lost.

We are only getting tower info when a call actually connected as that is stored.

If police had been able to get warrants sooner, we might have been able to piece together movement as the phone moved between towers - not just from calls.

So, you agree, the phone data cannot be relied upon?

 

[missy1974]

I think the reason is because it's a huge factor into where he will be placed in prison, his confinement, his restrictions and no-contact visitations. I know in Arizona that is how it is. DP prisoners are basically in a cell 23 hours a day with very few privileges. I remember Sierra Lamar's father saying that's why he was disappointed because of how life-sentenced prisoners have so many privileges in California. I think it also will help the prisoner reflect on his crime. I'm just not sure with all those appeals, that it is worth it.

<modsnip: general discussion of the DP is not allowed>

I recall reading an article that said that because they put the DP on the table, it actually allowed Merritt more resources for experts, lawyers, etc. One thing that Merritt will not be able to use on appeal is Ineffectiveness of Counsel if he is convicted at least LOL I know there are always things that we don't see, and they haven't presented their case yet, but right now... it seems hard to believe they are not doing everything they can.

It's unfortunate... I think this case will go on for years regardless of the outcome. If he is acquitted, the debate will go on... if he is convicted, the appeals will be endless IMO Isn't Scott Peterson still appealing, and he was convicted and given the DP in 2004. Crazy justice system IMO

 

[Mony Mony]

When CM writes his book/autobiography, he should call it "A Series of Unfortunate Events" .

 

[Texas Red]

Also the fact that it's a death penalty case sets the bar much higher. Many would oppose his conviction even if he were caught red handed.

This case is about as far from being caught red handed as you can get.

 

[oceanblueeyes]

I think if the jury can give him life instead of the DP, it may be easier to convict. I wonder if they will know that before deliberations? Anyone know? <modsnip>

I respectfully disagree. If the jury finds him guilty they won't have one problem recommending death, which he so richly deserves.

Trials dont work that way in the US anyway.

There is a legal reason there are two phases only if the defendant should be found guilty. They are totally separate conclusions from each other for the jury to weigh individually.

Until they complete the trial phase first they aren't there to decide the sentence before the guilt phase is finished.

Iirc CA has over 600 on death row.

It shows the CA juries have no problem giving the harshest sentence allowed under CA law when they believe its applicable to each particular individual.

Its afterwards that bogs the system down due to the unnecessarily long appeals process.

I did read an article last year that they do plan to find ways to speed the appeal process up.

In most other states the process doesn't take nearly as long, and executions happen at a faster pace, but then it seems CA. drags a lot of things out.

This is most definitely a death penalty qualified case if there ever has been one.

The state has to only prove ONE prong among many to choose from.

1. Were the murders extremely cruel, atrocious, and heinous? Absolutely.

2. Were children under 12 among the murder victims? Sadly, yes.

3. Were the murders committed for financial gain? Yes, imo.

If this man is convicted they will give him death. He deserves no less.

All they have to do is look at what he did to these four victims, and how he chose to end all of their lives.

Jmo

 

[missy1974]

It's interesting because one poster who uses QB (IIRC) said that two users can't both access the program at the same time. One could make the argument that Chase was calling to find out what Joey was doing before he went on there, or if afterwards to find out if Joey had noticed anything he'd just done. If one wanted to speculate, like the defense

That's believable as well, maybe the prosecution will show that?

 

[Texas Red]

Or maybe phone records just aren't all that accurate.

That’s a definite possibility, I was attempting to force a logical explanation but that would be contrarian to the Occam’s Razor theory that I see referenced here occasionally.

 

[missy1974]

they absolutely can and do
they've called me before to notify me of fraudulent activity


gambling excessively and defrauding/stealing are both examples of someone living outside boundaries

Just want to clarify...

They can and do what? lol

I have also had my bank account (and credit card) frozen when things did not look "normal" and looked fraudulent and it required a call from me to unfreeze. This is not what happened in this case though I don't think, because I am pretty sure they would have record of that.

What I question is, that if I call my bank.... I give them my account number and ask them a question about my account, is the bank computer system going to log that employee accessing my account? I believe they would. If they didn't, I would not want my bank account in said bank lol