CA - Joey, Summer, Gianni, Joseph Jr McStay Murders - Feb 4th 2010 #10

[Mony Mony]

Actually, according to the State criminologist that testified, it's more likely that it was transfer from someone working on the scene after the bodies were unearthed, because he doesn't believe DNA would survive that long. Although, if you accept that from him, then you also have to accept what he said about secondary transfer when explaining the DNA in the truck. We know very little about the DNA that the defense experts were able to extract, so I will wait or that testimony, quantities, etc. all play a part in DNA and asking general questions and getting general answers is good, but knowing the facts is better

So I don’t understand how the DNA would be secondary transfer from the crime scene? Wouldn’t a crime scene worker actually touch the item in question? That wouldn’t be considered secondary, would it? Now if they said they traced that DNA to the spouse of worker, then ok, secondary transfer.

 

[missy1974]

InspectorG,

The other problem is the signature. If Joey wanted Chase to be able to write checks legally, he would have added him on the account as a signee.

But he didnt do that. NOR did he give him his own log in password. When my son was in college we gave him a password and log in so he could get checks for tuition and books from one portion of our checking account set aside for that.
But I never told him to FORGE my signature. He was an authorized signature on that account. And had his own passcode to just that section.

WHY didn't Joey do that if he really wanted Chase to have access to that banking info?
WHY would he allow Chase to forge Joey's signature? That makes no sense.

Just a thought.... could Joey have called the bank to ask how to do that?

Was Joey's EIP bank account a business account? Do they do background checks when doing signee's like that at the banks in the US?

 

[missy1974]

I hope the prosecution make a big deal of the missing blanks in closing.

If this was "non-traditional accounting" where are the unused blank cheques Joey supposedly gave Chase?

Did Chase destroy evidence? Did he lose them?

Only Chase can testify to this point.

Failure of the accused to testify to signature and missing blanks and content of supposedly contemporaneous phone calls places this theory in the dustbin IMO

I think they are going to scoot around him testifying by showing the 8 hour long interrogation by SBSD. That will be fun! I definitely expect someone to bring us all popcorn LOL

 

[missy1974]

Can someone make a list of all the FACTS that PROVE CM murdered the family?
I mean short sentences with a link to show who/how it has been proven by authorities, not just assumptions?
TIA

bumping

 

[Recidivist]

Nobody does mail any more, except for Amazon . .

I mail and receive business checks mon-fri. And if I don't, I know i can initiate a bank transfer.

 

[Recidivist]

No he had 90k in his bank account, not in quickbooks, however you are correct in that he could have written himself a check for up to 90k, so why didnt he?

Because the bank would have placed a hold on a check of that amount.

 

[InspectorGadget]

I think they are going to scoot around him testifying by showing the 8 hour long interrogation by SBSD. That will be fun! I definitely expect someone to bring us all popcorn LOL

I am (finally) gonna clean my house while they play that!

 

[Mony Mony]

bumping

There is no smoking gun. It is a constellation of circumstances that point to the two timed ex con with a serious gambling habit and financial troubles. It is up to each juror to interpret that evidence. There is no evidence/proof that someone else committed this crime. This was not a murder/suicide. Someone put the family in those graves, and all signs point to the lying, thieving, ex-con,

 

[oceanblueeyes]

In terms of ju he profile of the offender, I think it is quite interesting the anger revealed at the crime scene. But this isn't a crime targeted at a single female or younger victim with typical sexual motive

I am interested to look into other cases of murder between business partners/friends?

Not sure how to find them though.

A current case I know about where greed for money was the motive is the case where a brother who was in partnership with his other brother.

Sorry the defendant's last name escapes me at the moment. Paul something and his brother was named Keith iirc. There is a forum here on that case.

The murderer was going to be cut out of the businesses they had worked together on due to his lack of integrity, and lack of positive input including excessive spending beyond his means. Sound familiar?

Coincidently, that suspect also murdered four. His brother, the brother's wife, and he slit the throats of their two young children then set their home on fire.

These are victims he had known all of his life, and supposedly possibly loved at some point.

So even with an emotional attachment, he didnt blink an eye in brutally murdering all four.

CM didnt have any emotional attachment or bond with Summer or the two children. Imo, he detested them. So he murdered them without one regret or one bit of remorse. Imo. They were simply obstacles to him standing in his way.

Of course it seems the other suspect doesn't have any remorse either for murdering his own brother, and his entire family. Imo

It really does show how evil greed truly can be. Unfortunately many murderers have had the very same motive when murdering their victims.

That is why murdering anyone for financial gain, no matter how large or small the financial gain, it is a legal prong for the cases to be death penalty qualified cases.

Another case I've mentioned before was about a best friend, and he also had done business deals with the victim.

He went to the victim wanting a 250k loan to pay off his gambling debts. His long time friend refused knowing he would just create more gambling debt. When he refused his friend murdered him, and stole part of the man's coin collection, then sold them, and spent it at the casino tables.

There are a multitude of cases with this same motive though.

Jmo

 

[Tortoise]

No he had 90k in his bank account, not in quickbooks, however you are correct in that he could have written himself a check for up to 90k, so why didnt he?

That would look a tad suspicious don't you think?

 

[missy1974]

Do you have the IP addresses for these transactions? I have been following the case for years & I'm confused, so I feel sorry for the jury at this point.

The investigator's did not get the IP addresses from Quickbooks. Hanke was asked about this. Day 19 Part 2. He was asked if his clone account gave him access to the IP addresses of where the activity was done from, he said it did not. Asked if he requested that information from QB, he did not.

 

[missy1974]

Yes I will watch it again, I don't recall hearing the IP addresses.

You don't recall because it's not there.

 

[Mica]

No I googled it & got an answer dated 2011 . . .

Some info in this article from 2011 ...

Mobile voicemail: Why ‘saved’ isn’t really saved, and your messages aren’t really yours

 

[missy1974]

But he never tried to call Joseph. They normally communicated daily until after the 4th. Didnt he make just one call to JM?

There was more than 1 call.

 

[Mony Mony]

The investigator's did not get the IP addresses from Quickbooks. Hanke was asked about this. Day 19 Part 2. He was asked if his clone account gave him access to the IP addresses of where the activity was done from, he said it did not. Asked if he requested that information from QB, he did not.

So if we had the IP address: then what? CM has not said anything like a one armed man gave him the checks. We aren’t looking for another author of those checks.

 

[missy1974]

And in any event, Chase never told police in his pre-trial statements that he was allowed to do this - so its not in evidence. he told police Joey gave him the cheques.

He will have to testify to it.

This is why I think if they play that 8 hour tape it will be fun lol

 

[Bernina]

What's the first thing you do when you add another "authorized signer" to your bank account?

You drag them down to your bank and have them sign a signature card and put whatever restriction you feel are needed for your account.

Joey was to have deposited a check in the bank the day of the 4th, according to PM. Why didn't he have CM meet him there? Why didn't he drag him own there BEFORE then?

And giving an employee blank signed checks? An employee you KNOW is a criminal? JM KNEW CM was, JM gave money to CJ when CM was put in jail.

I've owned enough businesses, and been a corporate officer, signer, and accountant for 2 LLC 's, and this is STANDARD business practice.

You DON'T allow someone to start writing checks before you do this. I don't buy that JM was that ignorant or stupid. He was in business with his 1st wife. This wasn't his first rodeo.

 

[missy1974]

So when exactly did he come up with this story that he had permission to write himself checks?

I listened again to the Union Bank lady, and Malone was insinuating that Joey's signature varied on other legitimate checks, so the variance on that forged check isn't that unusual.

I though the defense was going with "he had permission" Wht not say, "yeah, the signature is different because my client signed it due to the new agreement".

BBM Good to see that I wasn't the only one that caught that. Makes me wonder if they will say that this was not the first time he signed a cheque for or from Joey. JMO But Joey's signature did vary on his cheques pre-Feb 1st. I would love to see what an expert would say about them.

 

[asyousay]

I can’t remeber now but is there a record of Chase calling Summer after the family vanished?

Let’s be honest the logical step is if you can’t reach Joey you would ring Summer to see why he couldn’t get hold of Joey.

 

[mrjitty]

So if we had the IP address: then what? CM has not said anything like a one armed man gave him the checks. We aren’t looking for another author of those checks.

The IP addresses are not important

Private citizens will have dynamic IP addresses anyway, given to them by their internet provider, and these can update within a few hours. Who knows what IP address Joey's machine had on 4 feb

However one can check access from both ends.

e.g what data was logged for the session? OS/Browser/Versions/Machine ID

What data was logged locally? e.g. did Joey's machine log access QB on the 5th in the browser?

By comparing this info, one can reliably identify that the access on the 5th was by a machine not at the McStay house.

Also, seeing as Chase soon cashed the cheque that very day, we know it was him who accessed QB etc because he possessed the final physical output.