CA - Joey, Summer, Gianni, Joseph Jr McStay Murders - Feb 4th 2010 #11

[Force Ten]

I believe data was retrieved from the computer indicating a check was made online and then deleted but never printed. However the data retrived, IMO, can't be relied upon because the computer had been been in the possession of others and may have been tampered with.

No this is untrue. Now your twisting the evidence. The check was produced on the desktop. Mike took the laptop after they were reported missing.

 

[Texas Red]

Yes but you’re missing the point. Texasred wrote,
“I believe data was retrieved from the computer indicating a check was made online and then deleted but never printed. However the data retrived, IMO, can't be relied upon because the computer had been been in the possession of others and may have been tampered with.”

Insinuating Mikey had the computer when the check to “chase merritt” was written and then deleted (as if MM would make a check out to Merritt and then delete it). My point is MM didn’t have the computer on the 4th.

"Insinuating Mikey had the computer when the check to “chase merritt” was written and then deleted"
If the above is your interpretation of my comment, that was not my intent. My concern is someone, possibly DK, had accesses to the computer after it was taken from JM house and before LE retrieved it. The data retrieved by LE may have been manipulated durning the interval it was missing.

 

[travelbug]

I hope you continue to listen to the testimony. How could CM cash a cheque that would have been made out to MSM? I believe that 'argument' was about the insurance cheque or insurance project that they redid. Sequieda in his testimony makes it VERY clear that Joey and only Joey paid them, not Chase. Carmen said the same.

BBM
This has me thinking... I don't know which side would benefit from this, but it seems worth considering. There were 2 checks to SMS that JM was bringing to the Chic-Fil-A meeting with CM. Until the bolded testimony by Sequieda I always assumed CM was to deliver them. Now I wonder if the reason Joey went all the way to RC to have lunch was so that he could also drop off the checks to SMS.

 

[Force Ten]

We know it happened and we know what time that it happened because the QB's server couldn't have been exploited. But what we don't know is from where. In conclusion if it's not known from what location the server was accessed how can you put CM in the house that night? In order to know that the time is accurately represented on the computer we need to know if the computer has been compromised and the problem is we just don't know. If the computer data is to be relied upon it should never have been removed from the crime scene.

So let me understand this. In your scenario, someone else (Mike) produced the check in Chase's name and all the others as well? Did someone else also open a new checking account on the 2nd with the forethought to frame Chase and then pose as him cashing the other checks?

Or did someone(Mike/DK) produce the one check by pure coincidence not knowing Chase was going to himself print the other check?

It's completely illogical.

 

[Texas Red]

Although I agree with you, and I would question things taken from the computer.... I don't agree about the computer/QB's and anyone could have manipulated that. They had a cached image of it, I will see if I can find it

I'm pretty computer savvy, not an expert but I'm quite confident I could alter the cache on a HD to represent any search, IP address or time I wanted. The trick is to access the HD when the OS is not active, this is easily done by using another computer and accessing the HD like you would a USB thumb drive for instance.

 

[missy1974]

Although I agree with you, and I would question things taken from the computer.... I don't agree about the computer/QB's and anyone could have manipulated that. They had a cached image of it, I will see if I can find it

here is an image of the print check setup. Looking at this, the cheque #'s also were not the same as the one done the next day. This was from Schroeder's testimony.

So then I went to Hanke's testimony, which shows the QB's log.

37:00

 

[geevee]

I don't see how the items from the house being found in the graves implicates CM. The check attempt comes from data retrieved from the desktop computer however, not until after it was removed from the house by MM and then latter retrieved from him be LE.

I don't believe MM took the desktop computer but just if he did - you think MM found a way to go back in time to the 4th and add vendors to the Custom QB, create a check and delete it? And then somehow CM created a nearly identical check the next day, printed and cashed it?

 

[MichaelCorleone]

"Insinuating Mikey had the computer when the check to “chase merritt” was written and then deleted"
If the above is your interpretation of my comment, that was not my intent. My concern is someone, possibly DK, had accesses to the computer after it was taken from JM house and before LE retrieved it. The data retrieved by LE may have been manipulated durning the interval it was missing.

So DK, who was reportedly in Hawaii, accessed the computer in Mikey’s possession to make it look like Merritt wrote himself a check? And MM what, didn’t know this happened or is lying to LE?

 

[missy1974]

BBM
This has me thinking... I don't know which side would benefit from this, but it seems worth considering. There were 2 checks to SMS that JM was bringing to the Chic-Fil-A meeting with CM. Until the bolded testimony by Sequieda I always assumed CM was to deliver them. Now I wonder if the reason Joey went all the way to RC to have lunch was so that he could also drop off the checks to SMS.

What I meant by paying them... was that he paid by cheque. Sometimes Chase hand delivered them, sometimes they were mailed, but they were always written or printed by Joey. They both said that Chase never paid them, Joey was responsible for paying the invoices, that was the "deal".

 

[HelenK]

snip

But if you want to lay it in DK's lap.......SHOW ME THE PROOF.

That's it, Bernina - lob it squarely back to the other side of the court -

 

[missy1974]

That's it, Bernina - lob it squarely back to the other side of the court -

Hopefully L&C will still be there and we will see what they do and don't have

 

[HelenK]

This is such a good point. Who knows when the car was parked there for sure? I always questioned that but didn't have a handle on the size of the parking lot. Sounded as though there were 2 areas patrolled by one person? And maybe they were parked in the more obvious area? Talk of feeling hoods to see if the motors were still warm. Was every parking attendant dedicated to doing the right thing? I wonder.

My recollection from way back was that it was parked in a spot that was out of range of cameras. It was suggested that whoever parked it knew that lot very well and how it was configured.

 

[Mica]

Crime scenes are routinely not secured

E.g the grave site was not discovered for 4 years

You are misinformed. Yes, crime scenes are routinely secured and protected to ensure high quality results that will stand up in court. LE concluded the family was killed in the home (crime scene) - the home that was not secured and therefore compromised.

Snip

Any experienced crime scene officer will tell you that the key to doing the job well is protecting the crime scene. What does that mean? In a nutshell, it means securing the scene, limiting access to only essential personnel, and keeping complete and accurate records of everything that happens there. These steps require work and diligence on your part, but your effort will pay off when you end up with high quality results that will stand up in court.

Crime Scene Integrity


The most important aspect of evidence collection and preservation is protecting the crime scene. This is to keep the pertinent evidence uncontaminated until it can be recorded and collected. The successful prosecution of a case can hinge on the state of the physical evidence at the time it is collected. The protection of the scene begins with the arrival of the first police officer at the scene and ends when the scene is released from police custody.

Protecting the Crime Scene


Principle: One of the most important aspects of securing the crime scene is to preserve the scene with minimal contamination and disturbance of physical evidence. The initial response to an incident should be expeditious and methodical.

Policy: The initial responding officer(s), upon arrival, shall assess the scene and treat the incident as a crime scene.

https://www.nist.gov/sites/default/files/documents/forensics/Crime-Scene-Investigation.pdf

 

[missy1974]

My recollection from way back was that it was parked in a spot that was out of range of cameras. It was suggested that whoever parked it knew that lot very well and how it was configured.

And you think Chase would know that lot very well? I guess he did go down there 13 months prior to get viagra...

 

[Mica]

There's more than one crime scene, mica is referring to the house.

This is correct. The family went missing from their home. The home where it was determined they were murdered. Once the graves were located, they were secured and processed.

 

[MichaelCorleone]

NO - you missed my entire point! At this point in the trial no one has proven who did/did not have access to the computer at the Fallbrook house on the 4th, not SBS, not SDC, not Rick B, not Corn, etc. etc.

Okay. Not much I can say about this. You and Texas Red seem to think someone else messed with the computer to make it look like Merritt wrote himself a check and then deleted it, even though he did just that the next day... and cashed it.
Besides, as someone else pointed out, the check that was entered and then deleted at 19:59 on 2/4/2010 was done on the machine aka the desktop, not the laptop.

 

[HelenK]

It could be he knew they were dead, it could also be he didn't know but believed or suspected they were dead.

The killer(s) would know they were dead, but not necessarily everyone who knew they were dead was among the killers.

So, you're saying there may have been people who knew the McStays were deceased, but they were not the killer or killers. What were they, then? - accessories? people who stumbled upon the murdered family and just kept going?

 

[Texas Red]

So let me understand this. In your scenario, someone else (Mike) produced the check in Chase's name and all the others as well? Did someone else also open a new checking account on the 2nd with the forethought to frame Chase and then pose as him cashing the other checks?

Or did someone(Mike/DK) produce the one check by pure coincidence not knowing Chase was going to himself print the other check?

It's completely illogical.

I’ll work it backwards perhaps that will help you understand. CM cashes the check, I believe that has been established. Even if it was CM that printed the cashed check from HIS home computer on Feb 5th, how does that put CM in JM home on the night of the 4th? The evidence supporting such a theory came from JM’s desktop computer which has no established chain of custody. DK may have gained access to the home computer along with having access to the QB’s server.

“Or did someone(Mike/DK) produce the one check by pure coincidence not knowing Chase was going to himself print the other check?”

Your comment above suggest to me that you’re fixated on events occurring in a timeline moving sequential forward. With computers that is not necessarily the case.

 

[Texas Red]

No this is untrue. Now your twisting the evidence. The check was produced on the desktop. Mike took the laptop after they were reported missing.

The desktop computer was also taken.

 

[MichaelCorleone]

The whole reason for doing so would be for it it to jive with the records on the server and the forensic people would have no idea what happened. I think you're giving the computer forensic people way too much credit.

No. If I backdate my computer and sign into QuickBooks and write a check and backdate the check, Intuit’s records are still going to show I signed in today and backdated the check to yesterday. I can not manipulate their time stamped records. Well, unless perhaps I am a hacker of some sort.