CA - Joey, Summer, Gianni, Joseph Jr McStay Murders - Feb 4th 2010 #12

[oceanblueeyes]

I went back to the photo's of the island to see if there was a way to tell what exactly was painted on it because there were indications that Summer was working on that, drawers were out and on newspaper, doors off and on top of the island on the 15th. IF the paint got there from her painting, the only thing I could see her painting and that happening is the bottom of the island (underneath the cupboard) laying on her side painting.

Why would she do that though? All she would have to do is sit down on her hiney on the floor facing the island. She was short like I am at 5'4". She may have been shorter than that.

Before we added stone to the sides our island that is how I always painted ours. Easy peasy.

I think laying on ones side would be awkward. She would have to sit up each time to reload her brush or roller. Plus she would have far less control when using the brush or small roller.

 

[missy1974]

I'm assuming Summer was right handed. Which side of the cup did the drop land on?

I looked at that as well LOL I don't know if she is right or left handed, odds are right handed though. So she would have had to have been on her right side. Having done way more painting they I have ever wanted to do (I hate painting lol), there are times you have to use your 'off' hand, typically it's messier though. I don't know if she would have "had to" lay on her right side to do that island, but possibly other parts of the kitchen cupboard, but I couldn't tell if they were painted or not at that point. I also can't tell if she was painting in the island cupboards or not, which would require some awkward positions. And I personally don't think she would lay on her side to just paint baseboards. JMO

47:05 of this video CSI Radeleff testimony, she says it is her left cup, that the drip goes inwards.

 

[oceanblueeyes]

Exactly

But like many female victims she is blamed

Hi MrJitty. I was wondering where you were this morning. Glad to see you check in.

I have never paid one bit of mind to those who try to blame Summer for anything, and that will continue.

She is a tragic victim of a heartless cruel murderer who not only murdered her, but tried to place unwarranted blame on Summer after taking her life, and that of her entire family.

I'll leave the victim bashing of Summer to CM who gets such a sick thrill out of doing so. Yuck!!!! What an evil monster he truly is.

I think she was a very wise deeply caring woman who was very protective of her family including Joey.

I have nothing but complete admiration for Summer McStay. She was the voice of reason.

This is the very reason CM detested her so much That shows she was a very sharp strong woman who saw him for what he was, and still is to this day.

Imo

 

[citygirl]

I don't question that. The fact that the drip is horizontal and dried is the alarming points for me. It also seems like more than just a drop is on the cup unless it is sunbleached from being outside the grave? I don't recall if it was or not. But dried and not smeared. Also wintery conditions, although I suspect their heater may have kicked on at some point.

The defense contends the bra was cut at the grave site probably due to one cup being outside the grave and cut. I'm sure it ended up there by way of animals and the bra was cut in the home. A nearby knife may have been Chase's first weapon of choice.

Yes, I see that now. More than one drip and fairly clear.

 

[missy1974]

Why would she do that though? All she would have to do is sit down on her hiney on the floor facing the island. She was short like I am at 5'4". She may have been shorter than that.

Before we added stone to the sides our island that is how I always painted ours. Easy peasy.

I think laying on ones side would be awkward. She would have to sit up each time to reload her brush or roller. Plus she would have far less control when using the brush or small roller.

I don't know what to tell you ocean LOL I know from my own experience, and painting in and out of my home numerous times, I know what I have had to do to get things painted at times. That's all I can draw from. If you have never laid down to paint or had to get into an awkward position to get something done, then you have been very lucky ;-) I'm also a messy painter, and you have indicated you are not... maybe it's because you sit nicely and I don't haha

 

[MichaelCorleone]

This organization is beyond appalling and downright infuriating. So angry I could spit.

That’s it. I am boycotting L&C. What an unprofessional, ridiculous organization.

 

[oceanblueeyes]

Maybe it's best we don't know all the details. When I ponder what could have gone down it's too horrific.

I have thought about that very same thing too, CG. Truly if everything was known from the beginning until the end, the victims families would be forever traumatized, never being able to get it out of their minds what their loved ones had to endure at the hands of CM.

Imo, all of it was more horrible than any of us can even imagine or even want to know.

Sometimes it's best overall for all the gruesome torturous details to remain unknown. Sometimes the knowing can leave as much lasting damage to the families as losing them all.

I think there is a reason why in every murder case there are always unanswered questions. I think it's meant to be that way.

Imo, God gives us things He knows we can bear, and He also knows somethings are just too hard to carry, so He protects us during those unbearable times from knowing the details of what exactly happened..

Imo

 

[Frankie Hellis]

This organization is beyond appalling and downright infuriating. So angry I could spit.

I will never watch any trials there again. What a Mickey Mouse deal they are.

 

[QueenBofOB]

Somehow your post wound up inside of my post, Queen. Lol Almost missed it.

Oh I agree about the police saying the victim was a runaway. Unfortunately, I've seen many LE hold that opinion, only to find out they didnt runaway at all, but had been kidnapped and later found murdered.

But this case was totally different, imo. They had no valid reason or evidence to believe this entire family had just left everything behind never to return.

That's all I'm saying.

Imo

Yes, I don't know how my other post ended up like that. We have had a LOT of sloppy LE work here, in this area. Horrific, how they were SO wrong and didn't even bother to investigate either cases!!

 

[oceanblueeyes]

I don't know what to tell you ocean LOL I know from my own experience, and painting in and out of my home numerous times, I know what I have had to do to get things painted at times. That's all I can draw from. If you have never laid down to paint or had to get into an awkward position to get something done, then you have been very lucky ;-) I'm also a messy painter, and you have indicated you are not... maybe it's because you sit nicely and I don't haha

LMBO!!

Okay, Missy! I hear ya! I get it!! Lol

So you are a messy painter who often gets horizontal drips on you bra! Do you have a paint shirt you wear? Most painters have old painting clothes they wear. I know I do. Tshirt, and jeans.

When I started painting decades ago, I didnt make a big mess even then, but the more I painted the better I became. Imo making messes with paint of all things, I would think would cause such a mess it wouldnt be worth painting .

I have even come in from work, and did trim painting, either at the ceiling or trimming out baseboards, and I was still in my business outfit. Lol!

But then I'm known to go out, and water our vegetable garden at times still in my business suit, and very high heels. Lol!

I love trim painting the most since I'm a detail oriented person. Even at my age now I have a very steady hand.

I have painted in many awkward areas, but didnt have any problems. I am petite, and I'm still very limber...always have been. Even painting inside of the kitchen cabinets in our rental home, I never have gotten paint drips on my bra though.

Seriously, due to the drip pattern I dont believe it's consistent with Summer painting anything. Jmo though.

Imo

 

[cobalt sky]

I think the most important thing is that Chase cashed the checks and spent the money. So does it matter what computer he used to print it up? I don't think the jury will worry about that so much. JMO

I can't speak for the jury, but to me, which computer he accessed to create/print the checks is very important. Specifically, the activity alleged to have happened on the evening of the 4th, from inside the McStay residence. We know that Chase knew he could access the QB and create checks REMOTELY as early as the 1st. So it baffles me that he would waste critical time after murdering a family of 4 to hang out in Joey's office creating checks for himself when he could simply do it later remotely, the same as he had earlier in the week.

So for me, this is the one piece of evidence that causes my position firmly on the fence to tip slightly towards guilt. Because the rest of the QB evidence can be explained away by Chase's own history of theft, he could have known or suspected something was going on with the family and went for the money grab, just as Dan Kavanaugh did that weekend as well. But if the QB access on the eve of the 4th actually puts Merritt in the home, that is potentially very damning. I'm not ready to get off the fence yet and convict him lol, I want to hear from the defense as to their explanation of the QB evidence, especially from the eve of the 4th. That's why I feel the specific computers that were used are very important. All IMO.

 

[cobalt sky]

Well there is Susan's testimony that Joey was planning to phase Chase out of the business.

From the 1118.1 motion hearing:

And Mrs Blake indicated that Mr McStay indicated to her the reasons why Joseph McStay wanted to phase Mr Merritt out of the business. They were that Mr Merritt had money problems, that Mr McStay had loaned money to Mr Merritt but did not get paid back, that part of Mr Merritt’s money problems were as a result of gambling...

<snip>

So with the backdrop of information about the financial issues of Mr Merritt, the financial issues between Mr Merritt and Mr McStay, the problems of Mr Merritt at Metro Sheet Metal it’s also interesting that when Mr Merritt is interviewed by the San Diego authorities shortly after the disappearance he reports that he and Joseph are or were best friends, they were good business partners, good working relationship there’s no mention of any conflicts regarding him not paying Joseph back for various sums, conflicts with MSM, any of that information.

Yes this is interesting, because I don't recall her ever mentioning this before the trial. Even more interesting is the fact that armed with this knowledge, she continued to work closely with Merritt, despite the fact that the Sequeidas were fully capable of completing the fountains and were actually very eager to do so. So technically Chase really wasn't needed anymore at that point. Also puzzling is that knowing her son had loaned Merritt money and never received it back, she fronted him thousands of dollars of her own money. ??? Dan Kavanaugh also supposedly knew all about the alleged money that Chase owed Joey but apparently wasn't concerned either and was allegedly giving Chase business and money. Strange. All IMO.

 

[Force Ten]

I don't know what to tell you ocean LOL I know from my own experience, and painting in and out of my home numerous times, I know what I have had to do to get things painted at times. That's all I can draw from. If you have never laid down to paint or had to get into an awkward position to get something done, then you have been very lucky ;-) I'm also a messy painter, and you have indicated you are not... maybe it's because you sit nicely and I don't haha

Well if I was to paint under an island (yes, I actually got down and did this) I would be on my knees and maybe slightly horizontal to reach a hard to reach area. But one thing I realized in doing my play-painting, I wouldn't be close to the wall but at arm's length away.

From my experience with painting, a drip (not splatter) tends to happen in between saturating the brush/roller and applying to the surface.

If the drip landed on the inner cup of the bra, this would mean she was probably not only laying down but facing up as well. That's how I'm envisioning it. And we know that Summer's face received several blows.

 

[cobalt sky]

McGyver did testify that CM was at the house when Mcgyver arrived and said (paraphrasing) that CM was the one Summer had told him about, that she didn't like him hanging around, and that he could feel the tension between CM and Summer.

Right, but it's not uncommon for a wife to get annoyed when hubby's buddies are hanging around. Especially with small children to care for and a huge home improvement project in the works. I wouldn't categorize this as something that would offer proof of a poor or declining relationship between Joey and Chase. All IMO.

 

[cobalt sky]

Good morning. Don't want to breakup the flow of conversation but I do have a question. What are your thoughts (everyone) on the paint drip on SM's bra?

Honestly I don't really think about it much at all because IMO it provides us no concrete proof of anything. Somehow, a splotch of paint got on Summer's bra. That's all we know. It doesn't even prove that she was murdered in the home because there is no way to know exactly when or how the paint got there. IMO.

 

[cobalt sky]

As a neighbour, I think I would have noticed the 2 dogs being out all day/night, especially if they barked (was Bear a barker? the puppy?) I probably would have called the cops myself if I had gone over there and no one was answering the door. It was very risky leaving them out there if you were trying to buy some time IMO

BBM. This!!! This is one of the reasons I have doubts that the family was murdered in the home, followed by an elaborate clean-up and staging. Why not put the dogs back inside so that they don't draw attention to the home?

Dogs barking 24/7 is going to get the attention of the neighbors, who might repeatedly come over and poke around or ring the doorbell to find out what is going on with the dogs. And iirc didn't a neighbor do just that? And what if they got annoyed enough to call police and report the barking? And the police show up just as you're pulling in the driveway with your bleach and cleaning rags lol? Very, very risky. IMO.

 

[Bernina]

Yes this is interesting, because I don't recall her ever mentioning this before the trial. Even more interesting is the fact that armed with this knowledge, she continued to work closely with Merritt, despite the fact that the Sequeidas were fully capable of completing the fountains and were actually very eager to do so. So technically Chase really wasn't needed anymore at that point. Also puzzling is that knowing her son had loaned Merritt money and never received it back, she fronted him thousands of dollars of her own money. ??? Dan Kavanaugh also supposedly knew all about the alleged money that Chase owed Joey but apparently wasn't concerned either and was allegedly giving Chase business and money. Strange. All IMO.

Keep your friends close, your enemies closer.

 

[cobalt sky]

Keep your friends close, your enemies closer.

I don't think there is evidence that Susan, Dan, or Mike (the three handling EIP post-disappearance) considered Chase an "enemy" though, not for quite a while at least. And generally people don't show their enemies who's boss by letting them bilk them out of thousands of dollars. IMO.

 

[Bernina]

Well if I was to paint under an island (yes, I actually got down and did this) I would be on my knees and maybe slightly horizontal to reach a hard to reach area. But one thing I realized in doing my play-painting, I wouldn't be close to the wall but at arm's length away.

From my experience with painting, a drip (not splatter) tends to happen in between saturating the brush/roller and applying to the surface.

If the drip landed on the inner cup of the bra, this would mean she was probably not only laying down but facing up as well. That's how I'm envisioning it. And we know that Summer's face received several blows.

If you have little children and were brought up a certain way, throwing on your sweats and a bra while painting and wrangling kids isn't out of the question.
When you "load" your paint brush, don't you tap the edge of the can to eliminate any heavy drips?
That action could have put the drip (spatter) there if she was stretching towards the paint can on her side and gave the brush an aggressive tap (airborne paint).....if the can was out of reach from a sitting position on the floor.
The bra with the similar color paint to the house connects it to the house. That's the only connection we really need. How or when (obviously after they started painting) it got there will just be a mystery.

 

[Bernina]

I don't think there is evidence that Susan, Dan, or Mike (the three handling EIP post-disappearance) considered Chase an "enemy" though, not for quite a while at least. And generally people don't show their enemies who's boss by letting them bilk them out of thousands of dollars. IMO.

Unless LE advised them otherwise. They were probably told "business as usually, don't change the dynamics."