CA - Joey, Summer, Gianni, Joseph Jr McStay Murders - Feb 4th 2010 #12

[travelbug]

Yes this is interesting, because I don't recall her ever mentioning this before the trial. Even more interesting is the fact that armed with this knowledge, she continued to work closely with Merritt, despite the fact that the Sequeidas were fully capable of completing the fountains and were actually very eager to do so. So technically Chase really wasn't needed anymore at that point. Also puzzling is that knowing her son had loaned Merritt money and never received it back, she fronted him thousands of dollars of her own money. ??? Dan Kavanaugh also supposedly knew all about the alleged money that Chase owed Joey but apparently wasn't concerned either and was allegedly giving Chase business and money. Strange. All IMO.

ITA, not to mention if you thought something bad might have happened to your son would you ask someone you distrusted to check the house? I completely understand the concept of hoping nothing bad had happened and wanting to make sure EIP continued to thrive for when your son and his family returned. But, once LE was involved, why continue to work with CM, DK or MSM? You already knew your son was ending his business relationship with, at least, 2 of the 3 and possibly all 3. imho

 

[cobalt sky]

Unless LE advised them otherwise. They were probably told "business as usually, don't change the dynamics."

But all of this happened early on, right after the family disappeared, and at that time per LE there was no evidence of a crime. So I think it highly unlikely that LE would have told them how to handle the business. IMO.

 

[Mica]

But all of this happened early on, right after the family disappeared, and at that time per LE there was no evidence of a crime. So I think it highly unlikely that LE would have told them how to handle the business. IMO.

Well according to Dugal, all accounts were flagged including the business account. But yet Chase and Dan were withdrawing money.

Snip

"We have looked at financial records, Summer’s bank accounts, Joseph and Summer’s joint account, and Joseph’s business account," said DuGal, who also said email and cell phone accounts have been completely inactive since the family’s disappearance. "All the accounts have been red-flagged and none of them have been touched since February 4. Prior to the family going missing, the account’s activity had been normal. There had been no major withdrawals or [an indication that they were] putting money under a pillow for a vacation."

 

[Bernina]

Well according to Dugal, all accounts were flagged including the business account. But yet Chase and Dan were withdrawing money.

Snip

"We have looked at financial records, Summer’s bank accounts, Joseph and Summer’s joint account, and Joseph’s business account," said DuGal, who also said email and cell phone accounts have been completely inactive since the family’s disappearance. "All the accounts have been red-flagged and none of them have been touched since February 4. Prior to the family going missing, the account’s activity had been normal. There had been no major withdrawals or [an indication that they were] putting money under a pillow for a vacation."

If I understand correctly, Dan's portion of the business (the website) was bought off (with balance owing), but not Dan's administration (web master) of it. He would probably charge a monthly fee for doing that. Dan would have justified the withdrawals with LE later on.

 

[cobalt sky]

Well according to Dugal, all accounts were flagged including the business account. But yet Chase and Dan were withdrawing money.

Snip

"We have looked at financial records, Summer’s bank accounts, Joseph and Summer’s joint account, and Joseph’s business account," said DuGal, who also said email and cell phone accounts have been completely inactive since the family’s disappearance. "All the accounts have been red-flagged and none of them have been touched since February 4. Prior to the family going missing, the account’s activity had been normal. There had been no major withdrawals or [an indication that they were] putting money under a pillow for a vacation."

Ugh, we know this wasn't true at all: "All the accounts have been red-flagged and none of them have been touched since February 4." However, it could have just been poor wording, and what he meant was that none of them have been touched by the missing family. But yeah, nobody should have been touching any of the money that early on. IMO.

 

[missy1974]

I can't speak for the jury, but to me, which computer he accessed to create/print the checks is very important. Specifically, the activity alleged to have happened on the evening of the 4th, from inside the McStay residence. We know that Chase knew he could access the QB and create checks REMOTELY as early as the 1st. So it baffles me that he would waste critical time after murdering a family of 4 to hang out in Joey's office creating checks for himself when he could simply do it later remotely, the same as he had earlier in the week.

So for me, this is the one piece of evidence that causes my position firmly on the fence to tip slightly towards guilt. Because the rest of the QB evidence can be explained away by Chase's own history of theft, he could have known or suspected something was going on with the family and went for the money grab, just as Dan Kavanaugh did that weekend as well. But if the QB access on the eve of the 4th actually puts Merritt in the home, that is potentially very damning. I'm not ready to get off the fence yet and convict him lol, I want to hear from the defense as to their explanation of the QB evidence, especially from the eve of the 4th. That's why I feel the specific computers that were used are very important. All IMO.

BBM - very good point.

 

[Mica]

Ugh, we know this wasn't true at all: "All the accounts have been red-flagged and none of them have been touched since February 4." However, it could have just been poor wording, and what he meant was that none of them have been touched by the missing family. But yeah, nobody should have been touching any of the money that early on. IMO.

Right, only Joey was a signer on the accounts, so nobody should have been touching the money. At least that’s what Patrick has always said.

 

[cobalt sky]

If I understand correctly, Dan's portion of the business (the website) was bought off (with balance owing), but not Dan's administration (web master) of it. He would probably charge a monthly fee for doing that. Dan would have justified the withdrawals with LE later on.

Unfortunately we don't really know exactly what business arrangements Joey agreed to with Dan because Joey is not here to tell us . But from what we know, it is unlikely that Joey had given Dan permission to pay himself. This is evidenced by Dan's own words, that he was trying to contact Joey to receive payment, and the text/email? I can't remember which...on Saturday the 6th I believe..asking Summer where Joey is because he wanted paid. IMO.

 

[missy1974]

BBM. This!!! This is one of the reasons I have doubts that the family was murdered in the home, followed by an elaborate clean-up and staging. Why not put the dogs back inside so that they don't draw attention to the home?

Dogs barking 24/7 is going to get the attention of the neighbors, who might repeatedly come over and poke around or ring the doorbell to find out what is going on with the dogs. And iirc didn't a neighbor do just that? And what if they got annoyed enough to call police and report the barking? And the police show up just as you're pulling in the driveway with your bleach and cleaning rags lol? Very, very risky. IMO.

Yep, that's why I am just not sure it happened in the home, among other things. But then I'm not sure why painters tape and a towel/towels were in the grave either. Do we know if they ever found the things that Summer purchased that last day or 2? I am pretty sure we have heard zero about it in the trial, so not even sure what it was that she purchased.

 

[Tortoise]

This is one of the reasons I have doubts that the family was murdered in the home

rsbm

How did the murderer get Summer out of the house alive and wrapped in blue painter's tape, Joey, the children in pull ups and bath towels, at breakfast-time just after the dogs had been put outside and before Joey had made any business calls, without Joey or Summer using a phone to call for help, without being spotted by neighbours going to work, children going to school, mail and other delivery people about, people opening their curtains, or other drivers on the roads? And why did they take the towels and the floor mats and the sledgehammer with paint that matched the paint on Summer's bra?

Where is the realistic alternative scenario to the family being killed in the house, wrapped/concealed, taken out in darkness and loaded into the back of a truck?

 

[citygirl]

I have thought about that very same thing too, CG. Truly if everything was known from the beginning until the end, the victims families would be forever traumatized, never being able to get it out of their minds what their loved ones had to endure at the hands of CM.

Imo, all of it was more horrible than any of us can even imagine or even want to know.

Sometimes it's best overall for all the gruesome torturous details to remain unknown. Sometimes the knowing can leave as much lasting damage to the families as losing them all.

I think there is a reason why in every murder case there are always unanswered questions. I think it's meant to be that way.

Imo, God gives us things He knows we can bear, and He also knows somethings are just too hard to carry, so He protects us during those unbearable times from knowing the details of what exactly happened..

Imo

Amen.

 

[missy1974]

Unless LE advised them otherwise. They were probably told "business as usually, don't change the dynamics."

The investigation was so poorly done in the beginning, and Dugal really didn't look into the financials. He said he handed what he did get off to other investigators because he didn't do financial crimes or something silly like that. He got some records from Paypal (EIP), but I don't even think he got the bank records for Joey, at least not that I recall from his testimony. He didn't even know Dan had a paypal account. I don't think Dugal told them anything about what to do, they (Dan, Chase, and the family) were doing whatever and there was no one really overseeing it. I think Susan even testified that she just wrote cheques, she didn't look at the books.

all JMO

 

[LadyL]

Agree. She would be painting standing in a vertical position so how was the paint drip on her bra in a transverse position?

It isnt consistent with Summer painting, imo.

Someone asked why does it matter, and for me at least, every bit of evidence that has been presented, matters, all of it. That's the very reason they are all admitted for the jury to weigh.

Imo

simple
you're on a ladder and you lean over to reach a corner and it drips down from above
there's soooooooooooooo many possibilities for it to be an innocent explanation IMO
red herring

 

[citygirl]

I can't speak for the jury, but to me, which computer he accessed to create/print the checks is very important. Specifically, the activity alleged to have happened on the evening of the 4th, from inside the McStay residence. We know that Chase knew he could access the QB and create checks REMOTELY as early as the 1st. So it baffles me that he would waste critical time after murdering a family of 4 to hang out in Joey's office creating checks for himself when he could simply do it later remotely, the same as he had earlier in the week.

So for me, this is the one piece of evidence that causes my position firmly on the fence to tip slightly towards guilt. Because the rest of the QB evidence can be explained away by Chase's own history of theft, he could have known or suspected something was going on with the family and went for the money grab, just as Dan Kavanaugh did that weekend as well. But if the QB access on the eve of the 4th actually puts Merritt in the home, that is potentially very damning. I'm not ready to get off the fence yet and convict him lol, I want to hear from the defense as to their explanation of the QB evidence, especially from the eve of the 4th. That's why I feel the specific computers that were used are very important. All IMO.

Waiting to hear as well. The question is when will we hear it? Will it be tomorrow night? Hopeful but doubtful. We are at the mercy of L&C. Mooooo.

 

[LadyL]

I went back to the photo's of the island to see if there was a way to tell what exactly was painted on it because there were indications that Summer was working on that, drawers were out and on newspaper, doors off and on top of the island on the 15th. IF the paint got there from her painting, the only thing I could see her painting and that happening is the bottom of the island (underneath the cupboard) laying on her side painting.

but we don't know when the paint drip got there
if she already ruined one bra from painting, it's more likely she would put that bra on for further painting
so the drip could be from who knows when

 

[LadyL]

Well if I was to paint under an island (yes, I actually got down and did this) I would be on my knees and maybe slightly horizontal to reach a hard to reach area. But one thing I realized in doing my play-painting, I wouldn't be close to the wall but at arm's length away.

From my experience with painting, a drip (not splatter) tends to happen in between saturating the brush/roller and applying to the surface.

If the drip landed on the inner cup of the bra, this would mean she was probably not only laying down but facing up as well. That's how I'm envisioning it. And we know that Summer's face received several blows.

not a visual I wanted
but a convincing argument

 

[mom2chloe]

BBM. This!!! This is one of the reasons I have doubts that the family was murdered in the home, followed by an elaborate clean-up and staging. Why not put the dogs back inside so that they don't draw attention to the home?

Dogs barking 24/7 is going to get the attention of the neighbors, who might repeatedly come over and poke around or ring the doorbell to find out what is going on with the dogs. And iirc didn't a neighbor do just that? And what if they got annoyed enough to call police and report the barking? And the police show up just as you're pulling in the driveway with your bleach and cleaning rags lol? Very, very risky. IMO.

I feel your pain! Respectfully, CM had access to the house so who is to say he didn’t put the dogs out prior to the crimes or maybe the family did prior to the crimes. He did a clean up job and likely painted therefore he wouldn’t want the dogs in the house. He asked SB to verify the dog bowls outside had been moved. I had a dog once who would literally bring us his bowl to plead for more food and no offense to Sammy, but he was not the brightest dog! Lol
Maybe CM put the dogs in and out as needed for his scenario because frankly the older I become, the less likely it is that even an unacquainted neighbor would not report the dogs, whether they were barking or unattended. Dogs left out in the rain may take precedence over a missing family in many instances.
Edited to add that if Summer was painting the house maybe even the morning of February 4, she would not have wanted either dog particularly a puppy in the painting area. Dog slobber, puppy fur etc is not conducive to a good oaint job...

 

[missy1974]

but we don't know when the paint drip got there
if she already ruined one bra from painting, it's more likely she would put that bra on for further painting
so the drip could be from who knows when

I agree @LadyL I know when it first came up weeks ago in the trial, there was some assumptions being made that it got there when she was laying on her side, while Chase repainted. IMO there is no indication that Chase or anyone painted, so now, I don't know how it's explained as being a "part" of the murder or aftermath. I feel like you, it got there at some point while she was painting in an awkward position, with or without a shirt on, or maybe she was wearing a tank top... or maybe not.

 

[LadyL]

BBM. This!!! This is one of the reasons I have doubts that the family was murdered in the home, followed by an elaborate clean-up and staging. Why not put the dogs back inside so that they don't draw attention to the home?

Dogs barking 24/7 is going to get the attention of the neighbors, who might repeatedly come over and poke around or ring the doorbell to find out what is going on with the dogs. And iirc didn't a neighbor do just that? And what if they got annoyed enough to call police and report the barking? And the police show up just as you're pulling in the driveway with your bleach and cleaning rags lol? Very, very risky. IMO.

well we do know he's a risk-taker
and possibly had blown a fuse so unable to control his murderous rage

 

[missy1974]

I feel your pain! Respectfully, CM had access to the house so who is to say he didn’t put the dogs out prior to the crimes or maybe the family did prior to the crimes. He did a clean up job and likely painted therefore he wouldn’t want the dogs in the house. He asked SB to verify the dog bowls outside had been moved. I had a dog once who would literally bring us his bowl to plead for more food and no offense to Sammy, but he was not the brightest dog! Lol
Maybe CM put the dogs in and out as needed for his scenario because frankly the older I become, the less likely it is that even an unacquainted neighbor would not report the dogs, whether they were barking or unattended. Dogs left out in the rain may take precedence over a missing family in many instances.

BBM - I disagree after seeing the prosecutions case.

He didn't ask Susan to verify the bowls were moved... he told Susan the bowls had moved, Susan concluded that someone must have been watching the dogs. I have always wondered if they asked the neighbours if they did that???