CA - Joey, Summer, Gianni, Joseph Jr McStay Murders - Feb 4th 2010 #12

[smr]

Summer and the babies were the entire focus of Joey's life. Charles Merritt was not. He knew it, and he hated it.

Pure speculation? Has there been any sign that Chase wanted to be the focus of Joey's life?

 

[Cricket28]

Has there been anything to suggest that Chase's version of his relationship with Joey is untrue though?

McGyver spent a good amount of time at the McStay house in the week or so before they disappeared. He testified that Chase was also there on some of the days he was at the McStay house. I would have thought McGyver would have testified to any contention among Joey/Summer and Chase, either witnessed by him or reported to him by either Joey or Summer. But iirc he said nothing to indicate anything different than Joey and Chase were close friends and business associates whose relationship was in good standing. I also don't recall that anyone else reported anything different to what Chase claims. At least that I remember. IMO.

McGyver has always said Summer did not like CM ... at all. She didn't even want him at the house. According to McGyver, SM would call him to vent about it. IMO that must have caused some tension between her and JM.

MOO

 

[missy1974]

rsbm

That was James McGee's best suggestion (OS), presumably from their crime scene specialist.

Yeah, he said this:

'The bra strap and the left cup we're inside the grave with her, the right cup was found outside and between the two, it was cut, either knife,scissors, say knife, the painter's tape was found in the grave from the house. Evidence can show that's probably a way they got her out of the house from, controlled her that way by putting tape around her'

... he continued...

Even Sgt. Ryan Smith, you see it here, in his DNA analysis request form said we believe Summer was raped before she was murdered. here's the left bra cup you can see that cut line there the right one you can see it cut there the panties are tied up with the pants and again statement of what they believe happened.

But I didn't see any evidence of her being taped, so that's why I was wondering. This is the statement where the "knife" mention was confusing as well.

 

[Force Ten]

Okay. I understand your theory, and greatly respect your point of view, like always.

However; we will have to agree to disagree on this one piece of evidence. I find it highly unlikely based on the evidence this was benign.

I believe it happened when Summer was being attacked, and murdered or when he had killed her, and still standing over her with the weapon still in his hand.

I also dont believe in any coincidences in any murder case, much less a mass murder case.

This one has paint drips on the victim's bra, and sledgehammer. They are linked together, and lines up, imo

Imo, that is not a common piece of clothing to receive paint drips unless the victim was forced to undress.

It's even rarer to find it on a victim's bra that had been purposefully cut in half.

I think we can all agree Summer wouldnt be walking around in her bra painting if she had any idea at all CM would intrude into her home.

Since it was found on her bra half, I believe this logically supports she was on the floor on her side when it dripped on her cut bra.

It also coincides with the same paint being on the chilling murder weapon as well.. Both paints had to be fresh when put there.

Iirc, there were questions why Summer had a paint tray out with dried paint in it, that she hadn't lined with foil when she had used that method McG showed her for easy clean up, imo.

I think when attacking her some of her blood may have spattered into the foiled tray with paint in it.

Imo, he changed the paint out, but forgot to reline it with foil like she was doing.

To me whether it is blood or paint spatter or drips it tells a story for the jury to consider, and they will.

Imo, this was entered in as evidence for a reason by the state for the jury to consider when linking all of the evidence in its totality.

I dont believe the jury will think it's a red herring at all, but will think it lines up with her being on the floor on her side.

Its common knowledge if something is liquid on any bludgeoning weapon the liquid will drip if someone stands over someone who is laying on the floor on their side.

The clothing it drips on, will give these same like horizontal patterns as found on her bra when it dripped from his weapon of choice.

Take care.

Ocean

Jmo only!

I agree with ALL of this with one exception, her laying on her side. If @missy1974 is correct, the paint drip trajectory is inward towards the center of the bra. So if she was on her side, the drip would have to travel literally curving around her breast to land. Last I checked, gravity doesn't permit curving lol. This is why I think she was laying on her back with Chase standing (or kneeling) over her dead body, paint tray right next to her, and he hurriedly draws the paint roller from the tray to paint the wall, distributing the paint drip.

Hard to ignore, the missing tape from the island AND the paint tray/roller in the cabinet in the island.

 

[mrjitty]

We know that Chase knew he could access the QB and create checks REMOTELY as early as the 1st. So it baffles me that he would waste critical time after murdering a family of 4 to hang out in Joey's office creating checks for himself when he could simply do it later remotely, the same as he had earlier in the week.

Because of guilty knowledge.

The logical thought process of the killer is that no legit cheques can appear to be created after the 4th - so that would present as the last chance to print a cheque. For some reason that cheque was created but not printed - perhaps due to technical issues, or the killer was worried about the computer activity being too late in the day.

Think about this. If he printed and cashed that first Paul Mitchell cheque it would place him at the crime scene absolutely, if (as they did) the computer forensics would show that it was printed only after Joey got home.

He came very close to 100% blowing it here IMO.

So a plausible theory is that Chase realised this potential incriminating mistake, and decided to go with the possibility to backdate the paul mitchell and following cheques.

 

[mrjitty]

Hi MrJitty. I was wondering where you were this morning. Glad to see you check in.

I have never paid one bit of mind to those who try to blame Summer for anything, and that will continue.

She is a tragic victim of a heartless cruel murderer who not only murdered her, but tried to place unwarranted blame on Summer after taking her life, and that of her entire family.

I'll leave the victim bashing of Summer to CM who gets such a sick thrill out of doing so. Yuck!!!! What an evil monster he truly is.

I think she was a very wise deeply caring woman who was very protective of her family including Joey.

I have nothing but complete admiration for Summer McStay. She was the voice of reason.

This is the very reason CM detested her so much That shows she was a very sharp strong woman who saw him for what he was, and still is to this day.

Imo

Hi Ocean

Yes - on holiday. I have been reading the thread on and off but not posting much!

I agree.

She knew Chase was a user and abuser. It's always more obvious to the partner.

 

[mrjitty]

I agree with ALL of this with one exception, her laying on her side. If @missy1974 is correct, the paint drip trajectory is inward towards the center of the bra. So if she was on her side, the drip would have to travel literally curving around her breast to land. Last I checked, gravity doesn't permit curving lol. This is why I think she was laying on her back with Chase standing (or kneeling) over her dead body, paint tray right next to her, and he hurriedly draws the paint roller from the tray to paint the wall, distributing the paint drip.

Hard to ignore, the missing tape from the island AND the paint tray/roller in the cabinet in the island.

We should factor in that the rape may have been after her death. It's fairly common sadly.

I think a situation like what you suggest is likely.

@Tortoise also had some good analysis on the bleached pants

 

[missy1974]

I agree with ALL of this with one exception, her laying on her side. If @missy1974 is correct, the paint drip trajectory is inward towards the center of the bra. So if she was on her side, the drip would have to travel literally curving around her breast to land. Last I checked, gravity doesn't permit curving lol. This is why I think she was laying on her back with Chase standing (or kneeling) over her dead body, paint tray right next to her, and he hurriedly draws the paint roller from the tray to paint the wall, distributing the paint drip.

Hard to ignore, the missing tape from the island AND the paint tray/roller in the cabinet in the island.

I'm not sure what I believe about how she got the paint there, but I don't believe he painted, so I can't conclude that it was from him 'painting'.

as for the bolded part... I absolutely can ignore those things, they were taken on the 19th... the family was cleaning on the 16th, we actually heard testimony that Susan was cleaning the paint trays from her and McGyver I believe. When those photo's were taken, the island had been cleaned up and the drawers put back in, the newspaper that was on the floor was gone. I believe that Susan probably put the paint trays there, and we have no idea what she or the family threw out, but we know they did because they said they did JMO There was one photo that Tingley took on the 15th that showed a small portion of the island, that is all we have to go by.

 

[katydid23]

Pure speculation? Has there been any sign that Chase wanted to be the focus of Joey's life?

Didnt Chase say " Joey was my best friend, but I wasnt his.' ?

 

[smr]

Didnt Chase say " Joey was my best friend, but I wasnt his.' ?

He did, so? Are you interpreting it to be he wanted to be the focus of Joey's life?

 

[Force Ten]

If Dan had access to the PayPal with permission to pay himself then he probably wouldn't have needed to track Joey down to ask to be paid. IMO.

He did not have access to the Paypal account. This has been one of the biggest inaccurate accusations in this case. Dan requested the money, like sending a bill for money owed, and Mike or Susan released that money. Dan did not steal any money out of the account. This accusation was started by a family member but has never been proven to be true.

 

[Karinna]

IMO CM inserted himself into whoever's life to rip them off. An opportunistic predator IMO.
(quote)
Multiple consumer reports posted to RipoffReport.com cite a man named Charles “Chase” Merritt who runs a waterfall installation business. The reviews are scathing, accusing Merritt of poor behavior, shady practices and outright fraud. Here’s the most detailed example:
Charles ‘Chase’ Merritt: 5 Fast Facts You Need to Know | Heavy.com

 

[Force Ten]

Not only that, but it's the contrary: the fact that Joey had Chase in his house despite Summer's unhappiness about it, suggests that Joey and Chase had very good relationship, good enough not to be hurt by Summer's dislike. If both Joey and Summer disliked Chase, why would they have him in their house as someone welcome by no one? Chase would also not likely to want to be there. Apparently at least one person in the house welcomed him.

Because Joseph was very forgiving to a fault. Joseph, imo, was also naive and attempted to only see the good in people.

 

[Karinna]

Because Joseph was very forgiving to a fault. Joseph, imo, was also naive and attempted to only see the good in people.

I agree and it's just so sad because people like Joey get taken advantage of all the time for their kindness and generosity, IMO.
And in this case it had the worse possible outcome for the McStay family.

 

[wary]

By the way, is there anyone else besides me who feels just a little disoriented at the idea that the trial will ... actually ... continue ... tomorrow?

 

[Karinna]

Would an innocent man call up the QB accounts and pose as Joey McStay trying to alter/delete them?
(quote)
Daugherty said Merritt, who had characterized Joseph McStay as his best friend, was actually taking advantage of that friendship by writing and cashing multiple checks totaling more than $21,000 on the Earth Inspired Products account, which were entered into Joseph McStay’s QuickBooks accounting system both before and after the McStay family was murdered. Daugherty said Merritt’s efforts to mask what he had done by printing the checks and then seeking to delete any record of the account activity from the QuickBooks electronic registry had not succeeded, as the data had been recovered by investigators. “The defendant was already writing and printing checks on the business, from Joseph’s QuickBooks,” said Daugherty. Merritt’s thefts were augmented by calls to a QuickBooks customer service representative in which he represented himself as McStay in an effort to alter the nature of the account so he would have further direct access to the money in the Earth Inspired Products bank account.
Chase Merritt Trial In Horrific McStay Family Murder Case Begins | SBCSentinel

 

[missy1974]

By the way, is there anyone else besides me who feels just a little disoriented at the idea that the trial will ... actually ... continue ... tomorrow?

The State should have one last witness and then the defense will start their case... I'm looking forward to it starting again, but bummed that it won't be live streamed, and because there are no real reporters anymore, we will get nothing until L&C decides to upload the audio. Annoyed as heck about that lol

 

[Force Ten]

I'm not sure what I believe about how she got the paint there, but I don't believe he painted, so I can't conclude that it was from him 'painting'.

as for the bolded part... I absolutely can ignore those things, they were taken on the 19th... the family was cleaning on the 16th, we actually heard testimony that Susan was cleaning the paint trays from her and McGyver I believe. When those photo's were taken, the island had been cleaned up and the drawers put back in, the newspaper that was on the floor was gone. I believe that Susan probably put the paint trays there, and we have no idea what she or the family threw out, but we know they did because they said they did JMO There was one photo that Tingley took on the 15th that showed a small portion of the island, that is all we have to go by.

True, but most likely found in the kitchen, considering as you pointed out, the drawers being out.

Something else. She was found with what appeared to be a bathrobe and without pants/underwear. Was she actually wearing the bra? Was she getting or gotten out of the shower when attacked? Or got out and went downstairs and was attacked? Maybe Joseph was attacked when she was in the shower and didn't realize something was happening but then heard something after starting to get dressed and headed downstairs.

Then the boys were killed upstairs in the bathroom. This actually coincides with a theory I'm formulating based on the pants.

 

[smr]

I agree and it's just so sad because people like Joey get taken advantage of all the time for their kindness and generosity, IMO.
And in this case it had the worse possible outcome for the McStay family.

This is most likely true, whoever was or were the killer(s).

 

[katydid23]

I can't speak for the jury, but to me, which computer he accessed to create/print the checks is very important. Specifically, the activity alleged to have happened on the evening of the 4th, from inside the McStay residence. We know that Chase knew he could access the QB and create checks REMOTELY as early as the 1st. So it baffles me that he would waste critical time after murdering a family of 4 to hang out in Joey's office creating checks for himself when he could simply do it later remotely, the same as he had earlier in the week.

So for me, this is the one piece of evidence that causes my position firmly on the fence to tip slightly towards guilt. Because the rest of the QB evidence can be explained away by Chase's own history of theft, he could have known or suspected something was going on with the family and went for the money grab, just as Dan Kavanaugh did that weekend as well. But if the QB access on the eve of the 4th actually puts Merritt in the home, that is potentially very damning. I'm not ready to get off the fence yet and convict him lol, I want to hear from the defense as to their explanation of the QB evidence, especially from the eve of the 4th. That's why I feel the specific computers that were used are very important. All IMO.

"So it baffles me that he would waste critical time after murdering a family of 4 to hang out in Joey's office creating checks for himself when he could simply do it later remotely, the same as he had earlier in the week. "

I am wondering if Chase was very concerned about the date, and whether backdating was even a viable option. So maybe he needed to try it quickly, otherwise he would have no option to create those multiple checks he backdated to the last day the family was alive.

So he very quickly tried one, it was successful, and he created the rest early the next day, from some other device near RC. JMO