CA - Joey, Summer, Gianni, Joseph Jr McStay Murders - Feb 4th 2010 #14

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  • #381
I think that was more of a function of decomposing, the muscle bands holding the lower jaw up disintegrated and the lower jaw came down. But I had your same reaction on first sight.

You are correct. It's usually the lower mandible that is the first to drop, since the muscle is what holds the lower jaw in place.

Many times in shallow graves the victims lower jaw will be missing altogether, due to wild life can easily pull it off or as the muscle decomposes it detaches from the rest of the skull through decomposition.

Many times they use the DNA from the pulp in the upper teeth to ID victims. The mandible is often not there.

Sorry to be so graphic guys.
 
  • #382
An
Yes I have just been back through her cross-examination, the bathroom floors appeared to be clean, both master bathroom and downstairs, it was only some of the edges at the base boards in the downstairs bathroom where they zoomed in on what appeared to be dirt.
And this was on 2/17?
 
  • #383
An

And this was on 2/17?

In Denys Williams photo's, they would be from the 19th because that's when she took photo's. They have a some photo's from the 15th when Tingley took photo's as well, just not as many.
 
  • #384
I think he came in like most murderers do when they wipe out multiple victims inside of one home. For example like Daron Wint did when he murdered four.

I think he grabbed one threatening to do grave harm to them, it wouldn't matter which one. He knew each was loved deeply by the others, but I think he grabbed one of the little boys first. Jmo

After that, he restrained all of them where he was in full control.

I think he struck a restrained Joey in his leg to make him give up any passwords or codes he wanted. This was done before he wound up killing him.

I think it was either Force Ten or MrJitty who had the theory he may have put bags over each of their heads before striking them. I totally agree with this theory. Murderers have done this before to take care of any possible blood spatter.

This is guy is a twice ex felon who had spent time in prison. I have no doubt they talked among themselves about the best way not to leave blood evidence.

Even LE admits criminals have become much smarter in this past 10 years or so. Imo it's why we have so many unsolved cases beyond even cold decades old cases.

Were there any paint floor drops in the home? If so, were they all found? Tia.

Although it really doesnt matter how he carried it out. The main thing is we know how he murdered each one. Rarely is that known in great detail unless the bodies were left inside of the home, and not buried in a shallow grave for many years undiscovered.

So much compelling telltale forensic evidence was lost due to the time, and poor condition of the remains when found.

Imo
 
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  • #385
Cathy Russon‏ @cathyrusson
#McStay - Today's hearing (6 mins long) dealing with defense response to subpoenas from state for interviews with #CharlesMerritt conducted by documentary crew. Prosecutor Melissa Rodriguez said the defense filed an additional response "under seal", hearing delayed to April 11.
 
  • #386
  • #387
This motion hearing here discusses the documentary filmmakers camera and it's a small camera next to the court clerk focused on Merritt.


The judge also mentions two small cameras at the back of the courtroom but I don't know who owns them.

I think media must have had their own camera in there when Taylor testified, as the small portion they showed was of better quality than L&C's coverage IMO.

So do you think the audio we are getting is coming from the documentary filmmakers camera? The one next to the court clerk and that's why L&C stopped? Because they are being given the audio?

Also, does anyone know who the directors or producers are?
 
  • #388
Not surprised really. Wasn't it something to do with Microsoft in the next short half day? hearing, and then nothing until the 3rd. April?
Niner just posted it up a little while ago.

What evidence does Microsoft have? I don't remember. TIA
 
  • #389
So do you think the audio we are getting is coming from the documentary filmmakers camera? The one next to the court clerk and that's why L&C stopped? Because they are being given the audio?

Also, does anyone know who the directors or producers are?

Jon Knautz - IMDb

I don't think this guy started his documentary before Chase was arrested, so if the he has done phone interviews or even in person interviews, the State should already have the recordings of these IMO. Unless of course the guy filming wanted to be a complete dumba$$ and record Chase and him hollering through the glass :rolleyes: Same thing happened to the film makers of Making a Murder back in 2006, Judge quashed (is that the right word?lol) the subpoena and their material was protected as if they were journalists IIRC.

I actually figured it was the court reporter that was giving L&C the audio, depending on where the recording device is, the typing has been loud/not loud.
 
  • #390
What evidence does Microsoft have? I don't remember. TIA

I don't think we know what the defense wants from them. If we do, I have missed it and I don't recall anyone posting it.
 
  • #391
If the documentary filmmakers are filming the entire trial as Taylor testified, why have there been no reports of other cameras in the courtroom even after L&C stopped filming?

I only saw the L&C camera when I attended the trial for 2 days. That camera was set up in the very back of the courtroom behind the PT.
 
  • #392
Do they even have one? What happened to the sponge guy? Isnt he from that same area?

This has become so bizarre there simply are no words to describe it anymore.

So if they couldn't have MM to beat up on who do they have left?

BBM

LOL @ "the sponge guy".
 
  • #393
Although I did many a deep dive on this case, after they were found I knew I couldn't watch this trial. I am so discouraged by what I've read here on how the case is going.
These breaks during a trial where the DP is on the table is absolutely a travesty.
 
  • #394
Here's today's short motions hearing:

 
  • #395
Although I did many a deep dive on this case, after they were found I knew I couldn't watch this trial. I am so discouraged by what I've read here on how the case is going.
These breaks during a trial where the DP is on the table is absolutely a travesty.

I recall coming across your posts in the old threads... not that I recall what you posted, but I recall the pic LOL

The delay's have been horrible.
 
  • #396
Wednesday, March 27th:
*Trial continues (Day 35)-VACATED! (@ 1:30pm PT) - CA - McStay Family: Joseph (40), Summer (43), Gianni (4) & Joey Jr (3) (Feb. 4, 2010, Fallbrook; found Nov. 11, 2013) - *Charles "Chase" Ray Merritt (57/now 60) arrested (11/5/14) & indicted (11/7/14) of 4 counts of murder with special circumstance; plead not guilty. DP case.
Trial started 1/7/19. Dark on all Fridays. 12 jurors & 6 alternates were finalized on Tuesday (12/11/18). 8 women & 4 men, while the alternates include 4 men & 2 women.
See Trial Days 1 (1/7/19) thru Day 34 (3/19/19) reference post #309 here:
CA - Joey, Summer, Gianni, Joseph Jr McStay Murders - Feb 4th 2010 #14

3/20/19 Update: Judge and counsel only. Re Status hearing re Subpoena duces tecum (Microsoft). Trial continues with jurors on 4/3.
3/25/19: Motion Filed: Non-Party Microsoft Corporation's Motion To Quash Defenandants Subpoena Duces Tecum; Declaration Of Amanda Murray In Support Of Non Party Microsoft Corporation; Motion To Quash Defendants Subpoena Duces Tecum. Will be heard on April 11.
3/26/19 Update: Today's hearing (6 mins long) dealing with defense response to subpoenas from state for interviews with Merritt conducted by documentary crew. Prosecutor Melissa Rodriguez said the defense filed an additional response "under seal", hearing delayed to April 11.
Schedule for week of 3/25: NO COURT for jurors: March 25 (Monday), 26 (Tuesday). “Other” Hearing re Status of Subpoena duces tecum (Microsoft). March 27-VACATED (Wednesday) starts @ 1:30pm. NO COURT: 28th (Thursday), 29th (Friday), April 1 (Monday), 2 (Tuesday). April 3 (Wednesday)-Morning session only. April 11: Other hearing re Microsoft & Google Motion to Quash Defendants Subpoena Duces Tecum & Documentary crew interview w/Merritt. Jurors informed they should have the case by end of April.
 
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  • #397
He wouldn't have told them anything though - knife or dirt.

*break glass and don anorak*

In highly contested big murder cases like this, there is a game within the game. The accused never tells counsel if he did it. Instead, the accused shares a version of some sort with counsel which is then massaged and rehearsed into a defence. Particularly if the accused will testify, this overall narrative is key. Especially as the only person who knows the real timeline, the accused can zero straight in on mistakes in the witness evidence via counsel. Pistorius played this game like a master.

IMO this is what Chase is doing. He knows the bra was cut with a knife, and can use this knowledge to spirit up a graveside rape - a fabrication of the real rape. He knows the difficulties of the crime scene because he was there. So when the defence say - hey look at all this mess - it's because Chase knows very well it didn't go down that way, and can share his thinking with counsel back stage. After all, on the state case, the accused had days to stage this crime scene. No one knows it better than him!

Sometimes accused or counsel make a mistake and we get to see backstage. Pisto made this classic error in his testimony when he couldn't bring himself to say he shot in self defence. The clown of a judge failed to see what is obvious to any Court lawyer. Namely Roux and Pisto had rehearsed testimony where he would say he did mean to shoot in self defence. This panic in the defence is important because it showed to the world that counsel and accused had discussed something completely different. That should have shot down his whole case right there (and ultimately sunk him in the Supreme Court because Justice Leach was not born yesterday).

The Provecho discussion in the jail house tapes is this mistake IMO. You can see that Chase has prepped Maline that he didn't get the 19K. Then he is prepping CJ to manufacture testimony. But he accidentally admits in the tape that he did get the 19K (and we know it from the email).

In these cases, the staging/fabrication always seeks to point away from the defendant. So we need to reverse the process. Why is he trying to lead the state away?

Chase shows us what is sensitive and what he is trying to hide.

You've said it yourself. Why does the defence care so much about blood in the house when DK did the murders?
 
  • #398
What evidence does Microsoft have? I don't remember. TIA
No idea? Just that i read something about it from what Niner posted about the Trial schedule?
Wasn't there something about Google & Microsoft earlier in the thread? I remember discussion about it.
ETA, this
Re Status hearing re Subpoena duces tecum (Microsoft).
 
  • #399
Here's today's short motions hearing:

Thank you geevee.

My understanding after listening to that is that Cathy Russon's tweet is completely incorrect.

It's TSG's response to the People's subpoena - filed by TSG not the defense
With respect to some interviews they had done - wasn't stated who they interviewed, although I suppose it could include Merritt
And an additional response filed under seal by TSG - not the defense

3/3 - not bad L&C!

(I'm presuming TSG is Two Shallow Graves - the documentary.)
 
  • #400
Thank you geevee.

My understanding after listening to that is that Cathy Russon's tweet is completely incorrect.

It's TSG's response to the People's subpoena - filed by TSG not the defense
With respect to some interviews they had done - wasn't stated who they interviewed, although I suppose it could include Merritt
And an additional response filed under seal by TSG - not the defense

3/3 - not bad L&C!

(I'm presuming TSG is Two Shallow Graves - the documentary.)
Other matters discussed -

On April 11th as well as the TSG matter, defense says Google and Microsoft matters can be heard on the same day (11th),

Re. Randolph Beasley (sponge expert) he emailed his report to McGee yesterday - Pros filed an additional motion (at some point I'm not sure when) to exclude some of the testing and testimony of Beasley, and Pros still has not received all of the discovery, defense can't respond to pros without knowing what his report is, he will put the footage on a thumb drive and give it to the pros, pros motion will be heard April 3rd pm.

Rodriguez and Daugherty are going on Friday to Pittsburgh DNA lab

Defense doesn't have enough witnesses to fill April 3rd (am) or April 4th - so call Mike McStay next week instead of this week. They tried to get another witness but although they located her she has a doctor's appointment.

Rodriguez - at some point they need to address the issue of scheduling because the jury is only "10 qualified" through to the end of April
Judge says he thinks it was until mid-April - Rodriguez says we are going to have some issues with the "10 qualifications" - Judge doesn't think that'll be a big problem unless someone has a big vacation scheduled but they'll work around anything else.

McGee still thinks he will be able to close by end of April.

Dark pm on the 3rd
So Jury next in on morning of 3rd.
 
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