CA - Joey, Summer, Gianni, Joseph Jr McStay Murders - Feb 4th 2010 #15

[citygirl]

To be honest, shortly after this trial started, when I read the article about Chase retaining Maline, I was the least surprised. If I were in his position (whether rightly or wrongly accused), I would be very picky about my attorneys, too; a good attorney would be a godsend. I suppose in his earlier work Maline earned his trust.

Well, he definitely is working hard for his client. And in the above article it sounds like he's not encouraging his clients to cop a plea .

 

[mrjitty]

I wonder if Chase had a wet and dry tradesmans vacuum cleaner

 

[Frankie Hellis]

Did she say why she didn't test the murder weapon?

I would have thought that would be the first thing they wanted to test?

Imo

The Mvac technique is used on porous surfaces, which is why they used it on the items made from material only.

 

[Karinna]

The Mvac technique is used on porous surfaces, which is why they used it on the items made from material only.

They should of still tested the murder weapon for DNA as they do in other criminal cases for fingerprints etc.

 

[Tortoise]

Isn't this pretty much what happened though? They built up probable cause over time for a forensic examination of the house?

IMO its clear at the outset they had no basis to enter the house. Then as time passed they were allowed the welfare check, but that showed nothing to get them further.

I've always suspected two things about the lack of urgency

1. Dugal was in no hurry to catch a quadruple homicide and was thus quite happy with the idea the family had gone on the run.

2. I suspect the point of Mike was he would see if he could find probable cause.

In the end this case always comes back to how well the crime scene was cleaned. e.g, if the investigators had spotted the potential blood splatter on the table, everything is so different.

It's what happened eventually but I think the delay lost them potential evidence. DuGal even had cadaver dogs there but didn't take them inside the house. It doesn't look as if the laundry on top of the washer was even examined. Had they found the bodies sooner they would have had cause to go back to the house and carry out more detailed work on it.

 

[Karinna]

Isn't this pretty much what happened though? They built up probable cause over time for a forensic examination of the house?

IMO its clear at the outset they had no basis to enter the house. Then as time passed they were allowed the welfare check, but that showed nothing to get them further.

I've always suspected two things about the lack of urgency

1. Dugal was in no hurry to catch a quadruple homicide and was thus quite happy with the idea the family had gone on the run.

2. I suspect the point of Mike was he would see if he could find probable cause.

In the end this case always comes back to how well the crime scene was cleaned. e.g, if the investigators had spotted the potential blood splatter on the table, everything is so different.

Yes it seems nothing was noted out of the ordinary in what appeared like a family 0f four just suddenly and mysteriously up and left without contacting anyone before or after. Food left on the kitchen bench, dogs left out in the yard, yep nothing to see there that looked as if four victims were possibly murdered in their own home? I'm not really sure what it takes sometimes to see some major red flags that something was horribly wrong?

 

[Tortoise]

Yes it seems nothing was noted out of the ordinary in what appeared like a family 0f four just suddenly and mysteriously up and left without contacting anyone before or after. Food left on the kitchen bench, dogs left out in the yard, yep nothing to see there that looked as if four victims were possibly murdered in their own home? I'm not really sure what it takes sometimes to see some major red flags that something was horribly wrong?

Even the apple with the tiny bites just dropped on the floor looked to me as if there was a horrible situation.

 

[citygirl]

Even the apple with the tiny bites just dropped on the floor looked to me as if there was a horrible situation.

I could never figure that one out. Don't recall when it was photographed. Decided it was maybe one of MM's kids that left it behind.

 

[Karinna]

Even the apple with the tiny bites just dropped on the floor looked to me as if there was a horrible situation.

Yes exactly.

 

[Karinna]

I could never figure that one out. Don't recall when it was photographed. Decided it was maybe one of MM's kids that left it behind.

Who took the photos?

 

[oceanblueeyes]

Yes it seems nothing was noted out of the ordinary in what appeared like a family 0f four just suddenly and mysteriously up and left without contacting anyone before or after. Food left on the kitchen bench, dogs left out in the yard, yep nothing to see there that looked as if four victims were possibly murdered in their own home? I'm not really sure what it takes sometimes to see some major red flags that something was horribly wrong?

This is the part I will never understand.

I cant even count the missing person cases I've followed here, and on true crime channels.

In every one of them there was immediately enough probable cause for a SW of the victim's home, and sufficient probable cause to do a forensic audit of all of their financial accounts Which LE constantly monitored to see if any activity was made by the missing person or suspicious activity possibly done by someone else after they went missing.

If all of those other LE officer can get probable cause SWs then Dugal could have as well. This should have immediately been declared a suspicious missing persons case.

Like many detectives have stated about missing person cases they work it as a possible homicide investigation until they know otherwise. That way all important evidence is preserved.

There were red flags dropping everywhere inside of the home, showing this family wasn't willingly missing of their own free will.

It just comes across as Dugal was just too lazy to do his job, and went with what was the easier route for him.

Imo

 

[Karinna]

This is the part I will never understand.

I cant even count the missing person cases I've followed here, and on true crime channels.

In every one of them there was immediately enough probable cause for a SW of the victim's home, and sufficient probable cause to do a forensic audit of all of their financial accounts Which LE constantly monitored to see if any activity was made by the missing person or suspicious activity possibly done by someone else after they went missing.

If all of those other LE officer can get probable cause SWs then Dugal could have as well. This should have immediately been declared a suspicious missing persons case.

Like many detectives have stated about missing person cases they work it as a possible homicide investigation until they know otherwise. That way all important evidence is preserved.

There were red flags dropping everywhere inside of the home, showing this family wasn't willingly missing of their own free will.

It just comes across as Dugal was just too lazy to do his job, and went with what was the easier route for him.

Imo

Agree, and not really sure why it was treated as if there was no urgency to the whole scenario, and have read of other family didn't seem too concerned initially either because it was not out of the ordinary for them to take off for a few days or something to that effect? Wasn't it about 11 days before they were reported missing to LE?

 

[Frankie Hellis]

They should of still tested the murder weapon for DNA as they do in other criminal cases for fingerprints etc.

I am sure they did, but it must have revealed nothing, or we would have heard about it in the State’s Case in Chief. This recent testimony was about the mvac testing so it didn’t come up.

 

[citygirl]

Who took the photos?

I don't remember. It was on the stairs. I assumed it was there after MM and his girls were in the house? T seems to think otherwise so it might have been there when LE first went in.

 

[Mony Mony]

Did she say why she didn't test the murder weapon?

I would have thought that would be the first thing they wanted to test?

Imo

As previously stated, the M-VAC works best with porous surfaces. She did state that she would like to see a scholarly study done on M-VAC tests done on clothing that has been buried because no study exists.

She did test two electrical cords (not very porous but they do have grooves and nooks)

IMO, she didn't test the murder weapon in order to avoid finding incriminating evidence. She could have run the vacuum in the crevice where the head and handle meet. JMHO.

 

[Tortoise]

I don't remember. It was on the stairs. I assumed it was there after MM and his girls were in the house? T seems to think otherwise so it might have been there when LE first went in.

Denys Williams took the photo on the 19th when they had the search warrant.

I wouldn't have assumed it was from Mike's daughters - in the knowledge we have now that the children were murdered. It just seems far more likely to me that it happened during something shocking and violent than a child visiting, wanting an apple, dropping it and not picking it up and two adults leaving it there also if the kids didn't pick it up.

Speculation and MOO

 

[Karinna]

I am sure they did, but it must have revealed nothing, or we would have heard about it in the State’s Case in Chief. This recent testimony was about the mvac testing so it didn’t come up.

Right, i would think someone would of forensically tested it but not mvac, if the test can't be performed with that type of testing,when it was taken into evidence upon being found at the gravesite.
It was the murder weapon from what we know i would think.
And the paint on the hammer was identical to that in the home being painted, and same as the paint found on SM's bra wasn't it?

 

[Karinna]

I don't remember. It was on the stairs. I assumed it was there after MM and his girls were in the house? T seems to think otherwise so it might have been there when LE first went in.

Thanks for your reply.
I have never seen the photo of the apple, but have seen photos of inside the house on some MSM articles.

 

[citygirl]

Denys Williams took the photo on the 19th when they had the search warrant.

I wouldn't have assumed it was from Mike's daughters - in the knowledge we have now that the children were murdered. It just seems far more likely to me that it happened during something shocking and violent than a child visiting, wanting an apple, dropping it and not picking it up and two adults leaving it there also if the kids didn't pick it up.

Speculation and MOO

I see what you are saying. Sounded like there was lots of commotion ( according to CM) when they first went in the house. Kids were upstairs playing. Somebody running to the bathroom. Not flushing the toilet. Leaving the house. Locked door. Using the neighbor's bathroom. That's why I envisioned it having been one of the girls. That being said, you keep notes and I don't.

 

[Tortoise]

Thanks for your reply.
I have never seen the photo of the apple, but have seen photos of inside the house on some MSM articles.