CA - Joey, Summer, Gianni, Joseph Jr McStay Murders - Feb 4th 2010 #15

[smr]

I have a question: When exactly did Chase become a person of interest or suspect (before being arrested)?

Also what exact were his parole violations?

 

[Satchie]

And this ...


The sheriff said he had support from the McStay family throughout his department’s investigation and it was the family that reinforced the belief that the Joseph McStay and his immediate family had gone to Mexico.

As detectives combed through the McStay’s Fallbrook home, they found no evidence that the family was killed inside, according to Gore.

"Trust me, our homicide detectives are very thorough and very experienced,” said Gore. “Had there been any signs of blood stain or blood spatter or dents in walls, those would have been discovered."

SD County Sheriff Defends Investigators on McStay Case

I think what stymied the investigation was the murderer's incredibly ruthless decision to annihilate the whole family, including the young children. And to somehow do it without leaving any evidence of it having happened. And to do it to a family who didn't appear in any way to be a target of a mass murderer.

That's unprecendented in most people's experience, including families and police.

Hindsight is 50/50. The biggest fear in family and police's mind, I think, would have been that one or both of the parent's had snapped and might have done something to each other or the children.

 

[smr]

Hindsight is 50/50. The biggest fear in family and police's mind, I think, would have been that one or both of the parent's had snapped and might have done something to each other or the children.

Actually, according to MM, his worst fear was "looking for two adult shallow graves" and his nephews crosses. More seemed like foresight.

 

[Satchie]

Actually, according to MM, his worst fear was "looking for two adult shallow graves" and his nephews crosses. More seemed like foresight.

When was that stated, in 2010, or many years later?

 

[smr]

When was that stated, in 2010, or many years later?

March 2010:
Video shows missing family leaving home – Orange County Register

 

[mrjitty]

I wonder with all this touch/contact DNA info. why Merritt's DNA was found on the drivers side of the vehicle, mainly on the steering wheel and gear shift, but no DNA from Merritt in the passengers side where he would of been sitting when he was in the McStay vehicle with JM when questioned about it by investigators that he admitted to? Strange that, IMO.

There is no reliable evidence before the Court that he was ever a passenger in the trooper IMO

 

[citygirl]

March 2010:
Video shows missing family leaving home – Orange County Register

Sadly, his greatest fear came true.

 

[mrjitty]

He got very low grade results I think, much below the standard. But the fact that he got anything does give me a bit of pause and I'm open to believing they could get results using a better method for the items being tested, whether it will mean anything is another story.

Yes - it wouldn't really surprise me at all that you would find human DNA in the grave

It becomes a statistical issue - can you get enough of a profile to prove it likely comes from a person in particular?

This has been the issue in other cases, especially with methods of amplifying the sample.

Also where there has been cleaning, you can find forensic traces of humans which are so degraded you cannot say which person they came from.

 

[Force Ten]

Yes - it wouldn't really surprise me at all that you would find human DNA in the grave

It becomes a statistical issue - can you get enough of a profile to prove it likely comes from a person in particular?

This has been the issue in other cases, especially with methods of amplifying the sample.

Also where there has been cleaning, you can find forensic traces of humans which are so degraded you cannot say which person they came from.

Just how degraded was it? Could the DNA come from people handling the items before they ever came into contact with the family, i.e., manufacture, store, secondhand, etc. An extension cord could be handled by a multitude of people.

 

[smr]

Sadly, his greatest fear came true.

^ MM impresses me as having exceptional foresight. Not only did he describe the 2 shallow graves 3+ years before they were discovered, but also he seemed to have suspected Chase just as early, in March 2010, as seen in the following video. Back then it was still very uncertain what happened to the family. I wonder if he raised his suspicion to the LE that early. Chase was arrested in November 2014.

 

[mrjitty]

An extension cord could be handled by a multitude of people.

Yes - this kind of testing is about ruling somebody in rather than out, or looking for DNA where you would not expect to find it - e.g. the drivers side of the trooper

 

[la2cabo]

Also what exact were his parole violations?

They're available via public records if you care to look them up.

 

[oceanblueeyes]

Sadly, his greatest fear came true.

I'm afraid my mind would have gone to the same dark place, trying to think of where my loved ones could possibly be if I thought they may have all met with foul play. And that would be on my mind, probably constantly, even if I tried to push it out of my mind.

For weeks, at first the family was in understandable denial, wanting badly to believe they truly had gone to Mexico for a week or two vacation getaway.

They arent the only family, and friends of someone missing who hoped they had just gone off somewhere, and would safely return with everything being fine, once they were back home.

Even though in so many of those cases as well it never came true with a happy ending for them either.

But like any missing persons case the more days that clickes by, the dread, and worry would sit in more, and more with each passing day with no word from any of them.

And if I lived where the desert is known as a body dumping ground, I would certainly think they may be out there buried somewhere in the vast desolate desert.

I felt very early on they all had to have been murdered. Imo, it just took longer for the family to accept they had met with foul play.

The only thing I dont quite understand is why the police relied on what the family first initially thought, when they know it's very common for families to be in great denial wanting to believe the very best outcome.

While investigators understand that mentality held by many families, and friends, I cant remember another case where they seemed to heavily rely on what they said, instead of being very suspicious themselves.

That's LEs job to investigate, question everything, and be very suspicious. That's not the job for any family members, who always wants to desperately cling to hope about their missing loved ones.

Imo

 

[InspectorGadget]

Yes - it wouldn't really surprise me at all that you would find human DNA in the grave

It becomes a statistical issue - can you get enough of a profile to prove it likely comes from a person in particular?

This has been the issue in other cases, especially with methods of amplifying the sample.

Also where there has been cleaning, you can find forensic traces of humans which are so degraded you cannot say which person they came from.

Exactly, and I think lawyers use DNA evidence to baffle jurors with science because many people don't understand about probability or the alleles & how those factors can be interpreted, but only understand "the dna is there" or "it isn't". If I were a juror I would accept that Chase's dna is in the trooper, but not that he ever had driven it.

 

[Mony Mony]

CMs DNA is on the steering wheel. The defense wants us to believe it got there via secondary touch. The DNA expert also testified there is no way to know how and when the DNA was deposited onto the steering wheel .

IMO, it is much more likely and much more reasonable his DNA got onto the steering wheel because he put his lying, thieving, murderous mitts onto the steering wheel. IMO, the two timed felon was wearing gloves when he drove the trooper, therefore only a limited amount of DNA was found.

The DNA expert can cite studies with 32 test subjects all she wants, I ain't buying it.

Bottom line is CMs DNA is on the steering wheel. Just one more unlucky coincidence for the gambling addict who didn't even care enough to keep his own family together.

I hope they ask the expert if the secondary transfer could occur when an individual puts on gloves, leaving a small amount of DNA on the outside of the gloves which then got onto the steering wheel.

MOO IMO etc etc

 

[Mony Mony]

Any nurses on here that have donned sterile gloves? I imagine CM contaminated his gloves left and right putting them on. Shoulda used sterile technique. All MOO

 

[missy1974]

I have just finished listening to Suzanna Ryan's testimony from Thursday. So Ryan does conclude that DNA consistent with Merritt's was found on the passenger side. This is the swab that Jones said was too complex to interpret (F39). They were talking about Jones saying it was a mixture of 4 people, the snip I have from his testimony says a mix of 3 like Ryan says she determined as well with the data. She was asked if it was consistent with being there and remaining there since December 2009 and she said yes (this is when Merritt says he was in the Trooper)

She was also asked if it was reasonable that the other DNA on the steering wheel could have got there by secondary transfer, she said yes... it could have been from the 4th, the 3rd, the 1st, the 31st. It was consistent with what she knew from studies, etc. Jones also said that it was possible. I'm sure the prosecution will try to get Ryan to say that it could have got there by Merritt driving the vehicle as well lol

Lot's of studies, but it seems like there are NONE dealing with transfer DNA that has been buried for any length of time. (I'm thinking a scientist needs to get on this quick LOL) My understanding is that because Jones did detect some DNA that she thought she may be able to find more using the MVac because it's a more sensitive test and covers the whole surface, she was in no way faulting Jone's for not being able to find it IMO, but rather explained the limitations of swabbing and/or the advantages of the MVac.

When Daugherty was asking her about how much she was getting paid and who she works for... well duh... she has a consulting company, Prosecutor's don't typically need consultants they have State and FBI labs and employee's to do that for them... she consults on the results of those... this to me is a no brainer, but maybe because I follow enough cases? LOL I was surprised to learn that her MVac service is mainly done for LE, and her serology/lab portion (which she just got accredited for in Aug 2018) is about 50/50 right now.

Very little cross examination so far... will see what the Prosecution comes up with on Monday! I feel like I need to go listen to Jones' testimony again, I would like to see what he said about a few of the studies that were mentioned.

 

[mom2chloe]

Much of this, including Merritt's interview, happened after the warrants were executed on the home though. Dugal walked if luminal was used in the home and he stated the warrants wouldn't allow it. That's very curious to me. This is probably why the cadaver dogs were only outside as well.

While I can't place direct blame on family members, I think particular actions and comments made to detectives steered the case to voluntary missing. Then there's the video. Then you have Mike hiring the PI to go into Mexico to find the family, etc., etc.

Exactly! This was the beginning of CM’s gaslighting IMO

 

[Mony Mony]

I believe Ryan said she sent the raw data to the lab where they underwent MANUAL interpretation. She said the drawback for manual interpretation is technicians can interpret the same data differently.

So it sounds like of these results are subjective rather than objective.

 

[missy1974]

CMs DNA is on the steering wheel. The defense wants us to believe it got there via secondary touch. The DNA expert also testified there is no way to know how and when the DNA was deposited onto the steering wheel .

IMO, it is much more likely and much more reasonable his DNA got onto the steering wheel because he put his lying, thieving, murderous mitts onto the steering wheel. IMO, the two timed felon was wearing gloves when he drove the trooper, therefore only a limited amount of DNA was found.

The DNA expert can cite studies with 32 test subjects all she wants, I ain't buying it.

Bottom line is CMs DNA is on the steering wheel. Just one more unlucky coincidence for the gambling addict who didn't even care enough to keep his own family together.

I hope they ask the expert if the secondary transfer could occur when an individual puts on gloves, leaving a small amount of DNA on the outside of the gloves which then got onto the steering wheel.

MOO IMO etc etc

So I wonder.... did he just get lucky that his DNA on his glove didn't get on the inside door handle? Because it wasn't found there according to Jones. I'm willing to believe that he could have been wearing gloves and could possibly transfer his own DNA that way, but I am not a little unclear right now about how much was actually found there though and how likely that would be, maybe the prosecutor will ask about that.