CA - Joey, Summer, Gianni, Joseph Jr McStay Murders - Feb 4th 2010 #15

[katydid23]

So I wonder.... did he just get lucky that his DNA on his glove didn't get on the inside door handle? Because it wasn't found there according to Jones. I'm willing to believe that he could have been wearing gloves and could possibly transfer his own DNA that way, but I am not a little unclear right now about how much was actually found there though and how likely that would be, maybe the prosecutor will ask about that.

But if it got there by transfer DNA by Joey shaking hands, wouldn’t it be expected to be on inside drives door also?

 

[missy1974]

I believe Ryan said she sent the raw data to the lab where they underwent MANUAL interpretation. She said the drawback for manual interpretation is technicians can interpret the same data differently.

So it sounds like of these results are subjective rather than objective.

When she was discussing manual interpretation, I thought she was talking about Jones and his manual interpretation of the profiles he found on the passenger side swabs (F39). I thought she actually interpreted his data and didn't send that anywhere. But I will have to listen to it again and see, maybe I misunderstood. JMO

 

[Cricket28]

I really don't know what went wrong in this case.

LE knew -

from McGyver that Summer was really upset having CM in her home and he noted the tension and CM being there twice that week.

CM apologized for the unflushed toilet which could mean he'd left it unflushed


I think the detectives had more than enough probable cause to treat the house as a crime scene, investigate CM and would have found the bodies sooner with CM's phone records.

JMO

RSBM
BBM....That is so gross. Who does that??

Going to the probable cause.... McGyver was supposed to finish the much anticipated painting and the much anticipated flooring was scheduled to be installed.

Dugal even states in the search warrant for the house that he believed "the McStay family is the victim of foul play"
And that "some or all of the McStay family has been kidnapped or killed".

Also "in my experience financial gain often plays a role in a crime. By searching the computers and storage devices I believe that I will be able to establish the financial relationships between Joseph and Summer McStay (and) those that may have a motive to do them harm".

He obviously didn't dig deep enough.

Dugal should have had the popcorn bowls tested for their DNA. If they didn't find any...that's a sure sign of foul play.

But I think the pics of popcorn on the futon were taken by Tingley on 2/15 and Susan threw them out before Dugal served the search warrant on 2/19.

MOO

 

[missy1974]

But if it got there by transfer DNA by Joey shaking hands, wouldn’t it be expected to be on inside drives door also?

It depends on which hand you use to open the door and which hand would have had Chase's DNA. When sitting in the driver seat, my guess is he would use his left hand, not his right. And it didn't have to come from a handshake, maybe it was a pen? Maybe it was something they both handled like lights or something.

 

[Cricket28]

Thank you! Very interesting read. Politics, Pay to Play, Plead Deals.

 

[Mony Mony]

I don't know how the defense, with a straight face, can apply the results of the pen study to the steering wheel...
In the pen study, the first user handles the pen for 210 SECONDS, then the second user handled the pen for varying time intervals. The study showed at 90 MINUTES, the second users DNA began to overtake the first users DNA.
Then McGee goes on and on how, per this SINGLE study, we should have seen the two timed felon's DNA as the major contributer if he supposedly drove the car for 90 minutes without gloves.


Ummm....
1. I am sure Joey (The first user of the steering wheel) handled the steering wheel for more than 210 seconds.
2. McGee is asking us to accept that if CM drove the trooper, it would have been without gloves.

All MOO

 

[Mony Mony]

So I wonder.... did he just get lucky that his DNA on his glove didn't get on the inside door handle? Because it wasn't found there according to Jones. I'm willing to believe that he could have been wearing gloves and could possibly transfer his own DNA that way, but I am not a little unclear right now about how much was actually found there though and how likely that would be, maybe the prosecutor will ask about that.

They should have run it through the mvac

 

[Cricket28]

View attachment 178454

They should have tested that dang apple. Sigh.

 

[Cricket28]

rsbm

I don't think he got any results from the graves though, so if there was contamination it didn't affect the prosecution's case that there was no usable DNA. Perhaps they have a system for screening out the touch DNA profiles of crime scene technicians, which in the 5 years between 2013 and 2018 would have become degraded. IDK

JMO

I remember one of the forensic ladies, can't remember which one, testified that she voluntarily submitted her DNA years ago and it's on file at the DOJ? or?? (can't remember where). She did this so LE would always be able to rule out her DNA.

I think she was being asked by McGee about possible contamination of a crime scene by CSI.

MOO

 

[UndiscoveredTruth]

They should have tested that dang apple. Sigh.

But, would that be sufficient proof of anything? How many folks here pick their own apples single handedly in the supermarket and while doing so touch other apples while choosing? While I myself, actually wash all fruit before eating it, I know not all folks do and only goodness knows who has handled the fruit before they purchased it. I'm willing to bet there would be a mixture of DNA on that apple. Who knows!!

 

[Cricket28]

I have a question: When exactly did Chase become a person of interest or suspect (before being arrested)?

It's probably in the search warrants somewhere.

MOO

 

[missy1974]

They should have run it through the mvac

The difference with the door handle and the evidence in the grave is that the door handle DID yield identifiable DNA from swabbing, it just wasn't determined to be Merritt's.

 

[KALI]

I was in the Fallbrook house twice (though never upstairs). There was no visible blood to be seen. This was after Susan cleaned up, but I know that if she'd seen blood, she would have called Dugal.
As far as the family members leaning towards them going to Mexico, I did NOT hear that pushed. MANY theories were verbalized. A car jacking gone wrong was a popular one. All Dugal would say about the different theories, were "Your guess is as good as mine".
Fallbrook does have some nasty areas that I would not go to after dark. This town gets an F for crime under the livability index.

And this ...


The sheriff said he had support from the McStay family throughout his department’s investigation and it was the family that reinforced the belief that the Joseph McStay and his immediate family had gone to Mexico.

As detectives combed through the McStay’s Fallbrook home, they found no evidence that the family was killed inside, according to Gore.

"Trust me, our homicide detectives are very thorough and very experienced,” said Gore. “Had there been any signs of blood stain or blood spatter or dents in walls, those would have been discovered."

SD County Sheriff Defends Investigators on McStay Case

 

[citygirl]

^ MM impresses me as having exceptional foresight. Not only did he describe the 2 shallow graves 3+ years before they were discovered, but also he seemed to have suspected Chase just as early, in March 2010, as seen in the following video. Back then it was still very uncertain what happened to the family. I wonder if he raised his suspicion to the LE that early. Chase was arrested in November 2014.

If so, doesn't appear LE took much notice. Took 4 years to arrest him.

 

[smr]

I believe Daugherty is the lead for the PT (even though Imes and Rodriguez question most of the witnesses).

Daugherty and Imes are both lead counsels for the PT.

I wonder if Imes was added only as a result of shouting "Objection!"

 

[missy1974]

I was in the Fallbrook house twice (though never upstairs). There was no visible blood to be seen. This was after Susan cleaned up, but I know that if she'd seen blood, she would have called Dugal.
As far as the family members leaning towards them going to Mexico, I did NOT hear that pushed. MANY theories were verbalized. A car jacking gone wrong was a popular one. All Dugal would say about the different theories, were "Your guess is as good as mine".
Fallbrook does have some nasty areas that I would not go to after dark. This town gets an F for crime under the livability index.

Kali.... were you involved with handing out of flyers in the Fallbrook area? I don't know if it as something I forgot or what, but it came up in Mike's testimony last week. I believe it would have been towards the end of March 2010.

 

[Karinna]

But if it got there by transfer DNA by Joey shaking hands, wouldn’t it be expected to be on inside drives door also?

My question about Merritt's DNA being found in JM's vehicle is what was he doing in JM's vehicle at all?
Merritt is a liar, and who else apart from Merritt's fairytales has verified the story of CM being in JM's vehicle with JM very shortly before the McStay family went missing?

 

[Texas Red]

I have just finished listening to Suzanna Ryan's testimony from Thursday. So Ryan does conclude that DNA consistent with Merritt's was found on the passenger side. This is the swab that Jones said was too complex to interpret (F39). They were talking about Jones saying it was a mixture of 4 people, the snip I have from his testimony says a mix of 3 like Ryan says she determined as well with the data. She was asked if it was consistent with being there and remaining there since December 2009 and she said yes (this is when Merritt says he was in the Trooper)

She was also asked if it was reasonable that the other DNA on the steering wheel could have got there by secondary transfer, she said yes... it could have been from the 4th, the 3rd, the 1st, the 31st. It was consistent with what she knew from studies, etc. Jones also said that it was possible. I'm sure the prosecution will try to get Ryan to say that it could have got there by Merritt driving the vehicle as well lol

Lot's of studies, but it seems like there are NONE dealing with transfer DNA that has been buried for any length of time. (I'm thinking a scientist needs to get on this quick LOL) My understanding is that because Jones did detect some DNA that she thought she may be able to find more using the MVac because it's a more sensitive test and covers the whole surface, she was in no way faulting Jone's for not being able to find it IMO, but rather explained the limitations of swabbing and/or the advantages of the MVac.

When Daugherty was asking her about how much she was getting paid and who she works for... well duh... she has a consulting company, Prosecutor's don't typically need consultants they have State and FBI labs and employee's to do that for them... she consults on the results of those... this to me is a no brainer, but maybe because I follow enough cases? LOL I was surprised to learn that her MVac service is mainly done for LE, and her serology/lab portion (which she just got accredited for in Aug 2018) is about 50/50 right now.

Very little cross examination so far... will see what the Prosecution comes up with on Monday! I feel like I need to go listen to Jones' testimony again, I would like to see what he said about a few of the studies that were mentioned.

If CM is the killer he must feel incredibly lucky that his DNA was not found at the house or the gravesite. After being so lucky that LE hadn't found any trace of his DNA the last thing he would allow is his DT to hire an expert firm with a MVac to again search the crime scene for traces of DNA that could turn out to be his.

 

[Karinna]

If CM is the killer he must feel incredibly lucky that his DNA was not found at the house or the gravesite. After being so lucky that LE hadn't found any trace of his DNA the last thing he would allow is his DT to hire an expert firm with a MVac to again search the crime scene for traces of DNA that could turn out to be his.

From what Merritt has said he was a frequent visitor at the McStay family home. So you would expect some of his DNA there anyway. And if he had planned the murders it could be his way of defending himself about being at the McStay family home that his DNA was there. You know like Joey was his best friend bs, or whatever his nonsense was.
I think Merritt was very shrewd and cunning, IMO. And had to be for all that he did to become a felon previously.

 

[Mony Mony]

My question about Merritt's DNA being found in JM's vehicle is what was he doing in JM's vehicle at all?
Merritt is a liar, and who else apart from Merritt's fairytales has verified the story of CM being in JM's vehicle with JM very shortly before the McStay family went missing?

Bingo! And with all the talk of secondary transfer, etc, why haven't we heard of Summer's DNA being in the car? What about McGyvers DNA. They were "associates" of Joey also. It is curious only CMs was identified.