CA - Joey, Summer, Gianni, Joseph Jr McStay Murders - Feb 4th 2010 #15

[Mony Mony]

RSBM

I think the testimony about the actual results from Bode/Cybergenetics will be way more informative. JMO

Well I sure hope so. Suzanna has been useless.

And yes, I heard the same as Mrs, PC....Suzanna's notes said POSSIBLE bleach on pants/panties.

And IMO, they did let it slip it cost $900 per test. I don't recall hearing that specific dollar amount. Big boo boo.

All MOO

 

[Force Ten]

And IMO the lunch meeting at CFA didn't happen. Why would Joey have the need to shake Merritt's hand? They had known each other for about 3 years. I don't think Joey did that IMO.

Yeah, no. This didn't happen. It leaves really the only transferable ways are Joseph handing Chase checks, which we know didn't happen because Chase made all his own; Joseph handing Chase his food when he arrived, but we don't believe that meeting actually occurred; Chase handing storage key to Joseph, which is very small possibility. The only conclusion, logically, is that Chase drove the Trooper.

 

[missy1974]

RSBM



Well I sure hope so. Suzanna has been useless.

And yes, I heard the same as Mrs, PC....Suzanna's notes said POSSIBLE bleach on pants/panties.

And IMO, they did let it slip it cost $900 per test. I don't recall hearing that specific dollar amount. Big boo boo.

All MOO

This is from my notes on Thursday, Part 3 just after 42:00 minutes because it was one of the first questions asked... how much she was paid... how much she billed...

the rate for SB county is $225 an hour.
$900 per sample. but gave a 5% discount.

 

[smr]

I could envision the possibility of a heated argument, maybe even coming to blows, resulting in DNA swapping, but can't entertain the possibility that JM left a scene like that and then someone else killed him and his wife and two children that same day. Far too much coincidence for my mind.

EXACTLY.

The "heated argument" was a pure hypothesis. There's no evidence of it.

still takes my breath away to see those photos of the family.

I dare say this applies to many of us, whether one believes CM is guilty or innocent or does not lean either way.

 

[Mony Mony]

This is from my notes on Thursday, Part 3 just after 42:00 minutes because it was one of the first questions asked... how much she was paid... how much she billed...

the rate for SB county is $225 an hour.
$900 per sample. but gave a 5% discount.

Ok. Thanks for that. My point still stands...They chose to go the budget route and NOT test the murder weapon? Come on! I think Suzanna even had it on her list of suggested items but the defense declined.

 

[Karinna]

Well the prosecution has stated on multiple occasions they felt the DNA would be too degraded to yield usable results. It's the defense that has been banging the drum that you never know if there is any viable DNA. And yet they chose not to test it. Hmmmm

Yes i think the State were right about that. IMO

 

[missy1974]

Suzanna has been useless.

RSBM
I disagree... she is the one that took the samples. She had to testify about that, just like Denys Williams who collected samples in San Diego and SB employees testified about the samples they took. Those that took the samples didn't testify about the results, did they? Nope, that's what Jones testified for.

Although it sounds like she is capable of doing the testing and interpreting some of it, she didn't do that (her lab wasn't accredited at the time). She was quite honest about not knowing enough to testify about probabilistic genotyping and Cybergenetics, but she stated she referred the defense to them in case there was more that could be done, which was part of her job, being a consultant.

JMO

 

[smr]

Jared Bradley 1 day ago
Strong testimony! Ms Ryan not only understands DNA processing inside and out she is an expert in serology (DNA collection) so able to speak to a wide array of DNA related topics. The fact that the defense ordered the more sensitive testing (M-Vac) of the evidence speaks volumes. They had to know that if CMs DNA came back he would be screwed, yet they went forward with it.

 

[Karinna]

RSBM
I disagree... she is the one that took the samples. She had to testify about that, just like Denys Williams who collected samples in San Diego and SB employees testified about the samples they took. Those that took the samples didn't testify about the results, did they? Nope, that's what Jones testified for.

Although it sounds like she is capable of doing the testing and interpreting some of it, she didn't do that (her lab wasn't accredited at the time). She was quite honest about not knowing enough to testify about probabilistic genotyping and Cybergenetics, but she stated she referred the defense to them in case there was more that could be done, which was part of her job, being a consultant.

JMO

BBM, So a nothing burger right now? Until someone can testify and explain the test results properly at trial?

 

[missy1974]

Ok. Thanks for that. My point still stands...They chose to go the budget route and NOT test the murder weapon? Come on! I think Suzanna even had it on her list of suggested items but the defense declined.

And again... can you explain to me why the State didn't MVac it then? If they are SO sure that it's Merritt, what is their excuse? Like Ryan said, she is mainly a consultant for the defense because they don't have their own labs, so why is it up to the defense to do that test? Either way the State is paying for it... so who cares, right?

You make it sound like no tests were done on it, it was tested, yielded no results. Some of the items that Ryan did MVac did have low level DNA on them when Jones tested them, she stated that was part of the reason why she decided to test them with the MVac.

 

[Mony Mony]

And again... can you explain to me why the State didn't MVac it then? If they are SO sure that it's Merritt, what is their excuse? Like Ryan said, she is mainly a consultant for the defense because they don't have their own labs, so why is it up to the defense to do that test? Either way the State is paying for it... so who cares, right?

You make it sound like no tests were done on it, it was tested, yielded no results. Some of the items that Ryan did MVac did have low level DNA on them when Jones tested them, she stated that was part of the reason why she decided to test them with the MVac.

Jones used the wet/dry method of testing. He felt this method would result in less debris and more DNA in the sample. He was aware of the MVAC, but opted for the wet/dry method. Suzanna was brought on as the MVAC guru. Jones did not portray the MVAC as the end/all be/all. Suzanna did.

 

[Karinna]

And again... can you explain to me why the State didn't MVac it then? If they are SO sure that it's Merritt, what is their excuse? Like Ryan said, she is mainly a consultant for the defense because they don't have their own labs, so why is it up to the defense to do that test? Either way the State is paying for it... so who cares, right?

You make it sound like no tests were done on it, it was tested, yielded no results. Some of the items that Ryan did MVac did have low level DNA on them when Jones tested them, she stated that was part of the reason why she decided to test them with the MVac.

BBM, So exactly what is low level DNA? And can it be used as conclusive evidence in a murder case? Isn't there a set standard for determining the levels of DNA and if it can be used as yielding significance in any given case?

 

[missy1974]

Jones used the wet/dry method of testing. He felt this method would result in less debris and more DNA in the sample. He was aware of the MVAC, but opted for the wet/dry method. Suzanna was brought on as the MVAC guru. Jones did not portray the MVAC as the end/all be/all. Suzanna did.

My point is that you can't fault the defense for not testing something with a method that the State clearly has the ability to do as well. Whether they think it will work or not. They are the one's that have to prove he is guilty.

I don't think there is going to be any denying that they found some sort of DNA that swabbing didn't find, or it found more where the swabbing also found low levels of DNA. The question will be what that DNA means, and that will be left up for debate IMO

I really don't understand the logic that they didn't test the sledgehammer because Merritt's DNA might have been on it, how were they so confident in testing any of the evidence found in the grave then? Why even try? Would have been easier to argue that the State could have tried with their own MVac machine and didn't then they tried and got some DNA.

 

[Cricket28]

Did JM give his mother a key to their home? How did she let herself into the house?

IIRC the first time she was on the stand, one of the attorneys was going through some checks she had written. There was one to a locksmith and I believe she said it was for either to have a key made or a the lock changed on Joey's door.

MOO

 

[missy1974]

BBM, So exactly what is low level DNA? And can it be used as conclusive evidence in a murder case? Isn't there a set standard for determining the levels of DNA and if it can be used as yielding significance in any given case?

Each lab will have their own policies and procedures... I don't know what SB's was. But the fact that any quantity of DNA was found, Ryan thought that possibly MVacing some of the evidence, like the one's that had 'knots' would yield higher results. She thought that maybe the knots would have preserved the DNA... which IIRC Jones said the same thing, he swabbed at the knots for the same reason, if there was going to be DNA, that's where he would have expected it to be. The MVac also works well on clothing for somewhat the same reason... lots of crevices for DNA to get "trapped" in and sucked up with the MVac.

 

[Cricket28]

IIRC in Dugal's testimony, they didn't have a warrant when the dogs were on site. He testified that they were not allowed inside. He first got entry for the welfare check?

While i understand Dugal's difficulty in getting a warrant, I think he didn't make like easy for himself

Something I find strange in this case, is why, where Joey's mum was in lawful possession of the house, she couldn't just invite Dugal in for a walkaround?

IIRC someone has said before that only the owner or presumably a tenant can consent, but I don't know the law in the US

Well MM didn't have a problem inviting people in. I am aware of at least 2 times... 1 with Tim Miller and 1 Media Tour or something.

MOO

 

[Karinna]

Each lab will have their own policies and procedures... I don't know what SB's was. But the fact that any quantity of DNA was found, Ryan thought that possibly MVacing some of the evidence, like the one's that had 'knots' would yield higher results. She thought that maybe the knots would have preserved the DNA... which IIRC Jones said the same thing, he swabbed at the knots for the same reason, if there was going to be DNA, that's where he would have expected it to be. The MVac also works well on clothing for somewhat the same reason... lots of crevices for DNA to get "trapped" in and sucked up with the MVac.

But what has all this proven so far at Trial? How has the low level DNA been explained so far? For a jury to understand?

 

[smr]

Well MM didn't have a problem inviting people in. I am aware of at least 2 times... 1 with Tim Miller and 1 Media Tour or something.

MOO

^^

 

[smr]

What are the upcoming schedules? Days and witnesses?

 

[Karinna]

Well MM didn't have a problem inviting people in. I am aware of at least 2 times... 1 with Tim Miller and 1 Media Tour or something.

MOO

Tim Miller conducts missing people searches doesn't he? At that stage the McStay family were missing persons, and the home wasn't cordoned off as a crime scene.