CA - Joey, Summer, Gianni, Joseph Jr McStay Murders - Feb 4th 2010 #15

[missy1974]

Why do you dismiss the option it could have been Chase?

What excludes him if I may ask?

Imo

I think if he had access to them he would have. He would have went and got the QB's emails and either deleted the QB's account if that was the intention, or even just deleted the emails. I think QB's sent the link to the email for the download of the QB's pro to his eip email, no indication that was accessed by him either. I also think that Chase would not send Dan money through Paypal.

The only thing that they have even come close to proving in the trial is that Chase had access to the online Custom Account on QB's. Nothing else.

We have the advantage of knowing things outside of the trial, so using that information, I am fairly confident in my opinion. Others can think whatever they want, but from what I have been able to see, I believe it was Dan or the family that had access after they went missing. It doesn't mean they are responsible for killing them, it means they had access... I can't even blame them as I would do the same thing if it was my brother and his family missing. IMO

 

[missy1974]

Your original post said "anyone want to take bets it was the family?...
I don't understand why the family moving a piece of paper has any significance.

There has been a lot of discussion about who had access to the emails, etc. If photo's on the 19th show paperwork outside of the container like that, it's MY OPINION, that it was most likely the family going through it between the 15th and 19th to find whatever they could, like email passwords, to find the family.

What would you do if it was your family? I know what I would do.... I would turn the house upside down looking for whatever I could to help locate them, including finding access to any online accounts JMO I actually wouldn't have even taken the computer, I would have looked at it in the house, I would have hoped that passwords were "saved" so I wouldn't have to look for passwords, but hey, that's just me. JMO

 

[la2cabo]

I think if he had access to them he would have. He would have went and got the QB's emails and either deleted the QB's account if that was the intention, or even just deleted the emails. I think QB's sent the link to the email for the download of the QB's pro to his eip email, no indication that was accessed by him either. I also think that Chase would not send Dan money through Paypal.

The only thing that they have even come close to proving in the trial is that Chase had access to the online Custom Account on QB's. Nothing else.

We have the advantage of knowing things outside of the trial, so using that information, I am fairly confident in my opinion. Others can think whatever they want, but from what I have been able to see, I believe it was Dan or the family that had access after they went missing. It doesn't mean they are responsible for killing them, it means they had access... I can't even blame them as I would do the same thing if it was my brother and his family missing. IMO

If my family members went missing I guarantee I would access anything and everything I could get my hands on to try and determine their whereabouts. Right, wrong or indifferent one has to do what they feel is necessary given the circumstances. I actually applaud Michael McStay for being as proactive as he was when trying to find his brother, etc.

 

[Force Ten]

There was, and IMO that email was forwarded from someone in San Diego. I can't link it here, but when that was first being discussed, that part was left out.

It was Encinitas not SD, if you want to stick to the facts.

 

[missy1974]

If my family members went missing I guarantee I would access anything and everything I could get my hands on to try and determine their whereabouts. Right, wrong or indifferent one has to do what they feel is necessary given the circumstances. I actually applaud Michael McStay for being as proactive as he was when trying to find his brother, etc.

I absolutely agree. But then why is it when it's mentioned that family or Dan (at the families request or even not at their request) got access to these accounts is it automatically shot down? Because it wasn't Chase? I'm all for believing that Chase committed these murders, maybe not the way that the State is saying, but not everything that happened afterwards MUST be attributed to Chase, like accessing emails and paypal to be able to believe that. JMO

 

[missy1974]

It was Encinitas not SD, if you want to stick to the facts.

Didn't it come up as other possible locations? Pretty sure it did, but all were within the vicinity of San Diego or in San Diego JMO

In regards to your other question...

Wasn't the same testified to in the trial?

No, it was the Custom Account.

 

[Force Ten]

I absolutely agree. But then why is it when it's mentioned that family or Dan (at the families request or even not at their request) got access to these accounts is it automatically shot down? Because it wasn't Chase? I'm all for believing that Chase committed these murders, maybe not the way that the State is saying, but not everything that happened afterwards MUST be attributed to Chase, like accessing emails and paypal to be able to believe that. JMO

Is there anything to support Dan accessed the PayPal or emails himself?

 

[oceanblueeyes]

From the first search warrant listed in the warrants:

Based upon the totality of the above information, my training and experience, there is probable cause to believe the residence of 34 73 Avocado Vista Lane is the crime scene for this murder investigation. The futon cover was used to wrap Joseph McStay and three pillows were missing along with all of the pillow covers.

http://ftpcontent.worldnow.com/kfmb/misc/mcstay_warrants.pdf

I honestly don't understand what the big deal is about him listing the futon cover was missing, and used to wrap up Joey's body. It was a reasonable conclusion at the time imo.

To me this is what he believed to be true at that time. Investigations are always constantly fluid. Information changes the further the investigation proceeds.

I certainly don't think he purposefully lied about anything. Imo

Wasn't it learned they may have had more than one cover?

It seems reasonable to me to think it may be the futon cover Joey was wrapped in, but even if not, I don't see how it changes anything in the case.

Whatever it was, I do think it most likely came from their home or something CM may have had in the back of his truck.

Maybe I'm missing why it's an issue to some.

Jmo

 

[Karinna]

From the Opening Statements
RSBM
They looked at Joseph’s QuickBooks records and what they found was on February 1st his QuickBooks was accessed. Remember during the course of the defendant’s interview and he said Joseph brought me cheques and I said wait a minute three days earlier he was already writing cheques, this was what they found.

They found that within 42 minutes of receiving that email from Joseph ‘hey I’ve overpaid you $42,845’ within 45 minutes within that hour Joseph’s QuickBooks was accessed. At 12.24 pm on February 1st – this was not done from any of the computers seized from the McStay residence – a vendor was added, charles merritt, all lower case. Joseph McStay when he entered a business or a person would always capitalise the first letter properly, of the words. charles merritt was added as a vendor at 12.24 on February 1st. What’s also interesting is that for a person familiar with the program they would know that Charles Merritt properly capitalised was already a vendor and would simply be a pulldown menu, pulldown entry into the records.
A cheque was created at 12.34 for $2,500 to charles merritt. Another cheque was created on February 1st for $2,500 to charles merritt at 12.37. The second cheque was printed and then deleted. Now what happens when you delete a cheque on QuickBooks is it won’t show up on the ledger. So if you deleted the cheque it’s not going to show up cheque number blah blah, where it will show is in the account activity, that all of this activity happened. A cheque was printed and deleted – the first cheque that was created was no. 4093 the second cheque was no. 4092, this one was for $2500 – that cheque was deleted.
https://www.websleuths.com/forums/threads/opening-statements.413276/

 

[Mica]

Since you now want to "stick to the evidence", Mike was asked about that in his cross exam. About 41:00. That along with the information I have outside of the testimony, which I hope they will show, I highly SPECULATE, it was DAN that accessed the emails and the Paypal. I find it really hard to believe that Chase would send Dan money instead of himself if he had access to the Paypal account.

If Merritt hacked into Joey’s email he would have had both the QB passwords and all of Joey’s other passwords. And since the PayPal was linked to Joey’s bank account, he would have had easy access to Joey’s money. Yet, the PayPal transfers are linked to DK and MM. Why not CM?

IMO, it wasn’t CM who did that hacking.

 

[Karinna]

Opening Statements continued:
FEBRUARY 2ND

Neither of those cheques were cashed or deposited but the next day someone logs in to Joseph’s QuickBooks accounts, to EIP’s QuickBooks accounts – it’s not from any of the McStay’s computers – and two cheques are added to guess who, charles merritt, printed and deleted. On the custom side of the account Joseph had never deleted a cheque. Not only did he properly capitalise names he had never deleted a cheque.
But on February 2nd on the custom account, cheques were deleted. That was a cheque for zero dollars, that cheque was printed then was deleted, and then there was another cheque for $2,495, that cheque was printed and deleted, and that same day February 2nd was cashed at Union Bank - this is the cheque here in the lower half (shown on screen).
on the 2nd, Joseph gave Charles Merritt a handwritten cheque for $100, not a handwritten cheque for $2,595 but a handwritten cheque on February 2nd for $100. That was deposited into a bank account that was created on February 3rd by Charles Merritt.
The large cheque, all lower case charles merritt was cashed. February 4th is the last day the McStays were heard from.

 

[oceanblueeyes]

So are you saying LE got their investigative evidence wrong in the Prelim. about JM's accounts which got this case to trial in the first place?
Could you please explain what they got wrong because i'm not sure what you're saying? Thanks.

Preliminary hearings are called that for a reason. They are 'preliminary' findings which can change to some degree once the investigation proceeds much further along.

Having said that, I have no clue what evidence Missy finds that would drastically change the evidence in this trial???

If its the futon cover issue, even if it wasn't one, the state had much more probable cause meriting the case should go to trial. Both sides know PH are what is believed at that given time.

What Joey may or may not have been wrapped in doesnt change the probable cause that was met by the state during the PH.

Imo

 

[Mica]

Is there anything to support Dan accessed the PayPal or emails himself?

Snip

Within a week of the family's disappearance in 2010, large sums of money started being transferred out of Joseph McStay's business bank account.

Where was the money going? Who was transferring it and why?

CBS News 8 caught up with the employee who admitted to his involvement in some of those transactions.

Snip

Kavanaugh said the transferred money was used to keep the fountain business going during Joseph McStay's unexplained absence.

He said he was working with Joseph's brother, Michael McStay, and Joseph's mother, Susan Blake, at the time the withdrawals were made.

"I actually transferred it (the money) to myself with Mike's knowledge," he said. "None of that money went to me. That money went to vendors, welders and manufacturers."

"Mike and I and his mom tried to salvage and run the business that we had built for a long time," Kavanaugh said.

But without Joseph McStay at the helm, the business would eventually fold.

McStay murder mystery: Who is Dan Kavanaugh?

 

[Karinna]

What i quoted from the Prelim. hearing was to do with the Quickbooks information. I don't think that changed at Opening Statements at Trial.
(quote) again from Prelim.
When you write a check from QuickBooks, does it
automatically debit the money from an account?
A If the user has a credit card, a bank card, something
like that associated with QuickBooks, it can debit. It can be
linked to Pay Pal, those type of things. But Joseph basically

used these accounts for an online ledger where he created
invoices, he wrote checks and kept track of his money coming and
going out. But it was not actually associated to a bank.

 

[Mony Mony]

I honestly don't understand what the big deal is about him listing the futon cover was missing, and used to wrap up Joey's body. It was a reasonable conclusion at the time imo.

To me this is what he believed to be true at that time. Investigations are always constantly fluid. Information changes the further the investigation proceeds.

I certainly don't think he purposefully lied about anything. Imo

Wasn't it learned they may have had more than one cover?

It seems reasonable to me to think it may be the futon cover Joey was wrapped in, but even if not, I don't see how it changes anything in the case.

Whatever it was, I do think it most likely came from their home or something CM may have had in the back of his truck.

Maybe I'm missing why it's an issue to some.

Jmo

The search warrant also states "based on the totality of the above information and experience".......

 

[Karinna]

Snip

Within a week of the family's disappearance in 2010, large sums of money started being transferred out of Joseph McStay's business bank account.

Where was the money going? Who was transferring it and why?

CBS News 8 caught up with the employee who admitted to his involvement in some of those transactions.

Snip

Kavanaugh said the transferred money was used to keep the fountain business going during Joseph McStay's unexplained absence.

He said he was working with Joseph's brother, Michael McStay, and Joseph's mother, Susan Blake, at the time the withdrawals were made.

"I actually transferred it (the money) to myself with Mike's knowledge," he said. "None of that money went to me. That money went to vendors, welders and manufacturers."

"Mike and I and his mom tried to salvage and run the business that we had built for a long time," Kavanaugh said.

But without Joseph McStay at the helm, the business would eventually fold.

McStay murder mystery: Who is Dan Kavanaugh?

Yes, and LE would of investigated this information on DK i presume, and didn't find anything suspicious or he would of been a suspect, IMO.

 

[Force Ten]

Didn't it come up as other possible locations? Pretty sure it did, but all were within the vicinity of San Diego or in San Diego JMO

Right, Mid-city, San Diego, etc. I have found Infosniper to be the most accurate when comparing my own IP address. I've had some sites put me in a town 10 miles from me.

Here are some examples of the same IP address showing 2 different locations:

IP Address Lookup | Melissa Lookups

Locate IP Address Lookup Show on Map City of the IP 70.166.81.153

 

[Mica]

Yes, and LE would of investigated this information on DK i presume, and didn't find anything suspicious or he would of been a suspect, IMO.

We don’t know how much of the investigation (if any) was focused on DK or anybody else. Seems sketchy DK put in a request for money via PayPal as early as Feb. 6th.

Patrick McStay always had a problem with DK and the PayPal transfers.



Bobcat1
Verified Insider for the McStay Family

Again wrong, the paypal withdrawals on the 6th, 9th and 15th were not authorized by Mike or Susan. Susan and Mike weren't even involved until after the week of the 15th when the SD started the investigation. Those were proven to be DK and he had no authority. He was not on the bank accounts, Joey's paypal account, the qb accounts and he was not an owner or partner on any documents which has been stated by the SD.

 

[travelbug]

Yes, I know, but I would be interested to know if he actually did take the test and what the results were. From what I remember he was asked by the interviewer if he passed and he said he "assumed" so. It may have been the CNN interview, I really don't remember. Imo

Joseph McStay's father, Patrick McStay, told CBS News 8 that he has a hard time believing Merritt had anything to do with the murders.
McStay murder mystery: Who is Chase Merritt?
"What does Chase have to gain with Joey gone? Chase isn't going to get the company," said Patrick McStay. "If you recall, Chase took a lie detector test and he passed."

Merritt claimed in his interview with Daily Mail that he agreed to a polygraph examination at the request of San Diego County Sheriff's Department detectives. He said he had passed the test in the early stages of the 2010 investigation, despite "a couple of inconsistencies."

"Was I a suspect? Well, I don't know if I'm the only one they asked to do a lie detector test, but I am the only one who actually agreed. They were certainly on my case,"

 

[Karinna]

Joseph McStay's father, Patrick McStay, told CBS News 8 that he has a hard time believing Merritt had anything to do with the murders.
McStay murder mystery: Who is Chase Merritt?
"What does Chase have to gain with Joey gone? Chase isn't going to get the company," said Patrick McStay. "If you recall, Chase took a lie detector test and he passed."

Merritt claimed in his interview with Daily Mail that he agreed to a polygraph examination at the request of San Diego County Sheriff's Department detectives. He said he had passed the test in the early stages of the 2010 investigation, despite "a couple of inconsistencies."

"Was I a suspect? Well, I don't know if I'm the only one they asked to do a lie detector test, but I am the only one who actually agreed. They were certainly on my case,"

BBM, I can imagine at the time PM did feel that way, but i wonder if his feelings changed about that once CM was arrested?