CA - Joey, Summer, Gianni, Joseph Jr McStay Murders - Feb 4th 2010 #16

[Force Ten]

That's not the point. The theft according to the prosecution is the motive for the murders. With no theft there's no motive. IMO, the prosecution had better start looking elsewhere because they have nothing here.

Actually there is also enough evidence that he hated Summer immensely enough to murder her, and the rest was collateral. There is more than one motive here IMO.

 

[Texas Red]

People who use VPN's do it for protection against hackers and other intrusive entities. I don't see this as nefarious at all. If Dan was trying to hide himself, he would have used a proxy. No brainer.

A VPN also works as a proxy with the added enhancement of encryption, ie tunneling, if someone didn't know what they were doing they'd use a proxy, I believe as far as computers and networking are concerned, DK, most likely knew what he was doing. So, apparently it does require a brain.

 

[Texas Red]

My law library had complete reports for NZ, UK and US. I did my hons project on a US aspect of law.

Who knows, maybe someday you'll be a prosecutor here in the US.

 

[MsBetsy]

That's hardly a motive, If being in debt is a motive for murder 80% of adults in the country are suspect.

True, most people don't commit murder because they owe people money. But it is also true that many murders are motivated by financial greed.
Chase owed Joey $30,000 he borrowed to pay off gambling debts. He wrote $15,000 in checks from his account, thousands of which he used for gambling. He also owed another $20,000 in taxes. People have murdered for a lot less than that. Imo

 

[fridaybaker]

I hope we get to see more texts. If the defense was smart, they would have selected the texts from Feb 4th where Joey tells CM he is a swell employee and gives the two timed felon felon permission to go ahead and write himself some checks.

 

[Force Ten]

A VPN also works as a proxy with the added enhancement of encryption, ie tunneling, if someone didn't know what they were doing they'd use a proxy, I believe as far as computers and networking are concerned, DK, most likely knew what he was doing. So, apparently it does require a brain.

Right, he knows what he's doing, which is why it's "more likely" for him to use a proxy which might put him in Switzerland, Australia or New York.

 

[mrjitty]

As we all know, the burden of proof in criminal cases is with the prosecution. The defence is not required to prove innocence and thus need not present any evidence.

However, if in the course of the defence, the defendant wishes to assert that a state of affairs existed, or something happened in a particular way, it is obviously a good idea to present evidence of that fact to counter prosecution evidence.

This is like day one of law school, and is what is meant by an evidential foundation.

So in other words, when you admitted you forged Joey's signature - that is prima facie, in the absence of any other evidence, fraud.

That's the whole point of having signatures on financial instruments. If I didn't sign I didn't consent.

So this is why the defence needs to introduce an evidential foundation - so that they have a basis for an alternate version

If they achieve that, then as usual, the onus is on the prosecution to disprove it.

 

[Texas Red]

Actually there is also enough evidence that he hated Summer immensely enough to murder her

Hated her enough to murder her! That's a pretty strong statement. What exactly would that evidence be?

 

[Plo_Koon]

Actually, once Joey found out about the thievery he was found dead in the desert!

Exactly.

 

[Texas Red]

Right, he knows what he's doing, which is why it's "more likely" for him to use a proxy which might put him in Switzerland, Australia or New York.

As I tried to explain before a VPN is an enhanced proxy. He wouldn't want to use just a proxy because the data being transferred is not encrypted anyone with access to the proxy server would have the ability to see your conversation or the photo you were sending or receiving.

 

[fridaybaker]

Defence asserts therefore defence to prove.

Prima facie, only the authorised signatory can sign cheques and therefore Chase committed cheque fraud in the absence of cogent evidence to the contrary.

This is why we have signatures on cheques - as proof to all the world of consent.

Otherwise people can just forge your signature and claim you said it was OK.

Mrjitty, are you tired of posting this yet? Over, and over, and over, we go over this. The DT constantly assert something, either overtly or by implication, yet offer no proof. I'm just waiting for Chase to get on the stand so that he can testify and be cross examined about his authorization to sign the checks, among other things. Waiting, waiting, waiting...

 

[Recidivist]

Just because some of law here is based upon English Common Law doesn't mean they're the same.

Can you cite which California Penal Code allows a person to forge another person's name on a legal document?

 

[Plo_Koon]

So do you supply checks to your gardener and then let them make checks out to themselves, at random? And then backdate as well? Smart accounting there.

That's implied consent!!

 

[Bernina]

Amazingly enough we do learn this

My law library had complete reports for NZ, UK and US. I did my hons project on a US aspect of law.

(this was before LexisNexis)

I obviously don't use their extensive services, but for years I bought their annual "Arizona Criminal and Traffic Law Manual". The sheriff's in our area seemed to think that because they said "this is how it is", it was law. Start quoting title and section, and their eyes would glaze over.
It helped us (the neighbors who valued law and order) tremendously with animal issues, trespass, stalking, gun discharges, threats and intimidation, harassment, etc. We were actually able to get cases into court by using those manuals. One officer was reprimanded for publicly saying our neighborhood was the "Hatfields and McCoys". We did this on our own without attorneys and won.
It changed the dynamics of our area, and our calls to LE are not ignored, they will send forensics if requested, and it's now SOP to send 2 deputies when they receive a call.

 

[Recidivist]

Hated her enough to murder her! That's a pretty strong statement. What exactly would that evidence be?

hmm, her dead body?

 

[fridaybaker]

Maybe that's how things work with legal procedure elsewhere but it's not the case here.

Actually, that is how it works here, if "here" is the U.S.

 

[Plo_Koon]

Hi Plo!

Did he show any text exchanged between the two men around the time CM was helping himself to Joey's funds?

Any relevant texts on the 4th or the first days in February? If they have prior texted or emailed each other in the past, then why not show all texts between them both around the most important timeline?

Has this expert produced any of CMs own texts? If not, why not? Tia!

Imo, the one sent by Joey earlier is irrelevant fluff filler. Everyone knows Joey was a nice guy, and it's a common message to send to vendors, or subs.

There was a lot of water over the bridge since then. So much so, Joey, and his entire family wound up being murdered.

So things had drastically changed right before they were all murdered or we wouldn't be following the death penalty trial of Charles Merritt.

If I was the prosecutor I would point blank ask this hired gun where is his supporting evidence Joey was teaching the ex felon how to take money out of Joey's personally owned business.

Imo

Howdy! 100% concur with your entire post.

 

[Plo_Koon]

Greed is often a motive for murder. CM needed money and JM cut him off IMO the day he handed Merritt a check for $100. Merritt needed more to support his addiction and didn't have enough to cover rent. He also owed JM around $43,000 as per JM's email to CM on the 1st. February.

His best friend and business partner goes missing, yet his main concern is how he will pay for rent and gambling. Great guy.

 

[Plo_Koon]

Maybe he will after all, unlike others he has nothing to hide.

LOL. He has nothing to hide, yet he is coaching his ex during jail visitation recordings how to testify. Does not compute, IMO.

 

[fridaybaker]

Excellent point! If Merritt had consent to sign checks why was Joey supposedly giving presigned blank checks to Merritt? It's a bunch of hogwash IMO.

A valid point made many, many times here. Makes no sense, but I've come to the conclusion that sense and reason are in short supply in some cases.

 

[fridaybaker]

Maybe he will after all, unlike others he has nothing to hide.

I'm just curious here. How do you know Chase Merritt has nothing to hide?