CA - Joey, Summer, Gianni, Joseph Jr McStay Murders - Feb 4th 2010 #2

[asyousay]

It looks like Joey's handwriting if you compare it to the cheques he wrote also.

Note the similarities on the business card between the 6 and the 8 in the bottom number and in the crossed out number written underneath DAN at the top and the high downward stroke on the cross of the number 4. Also the h in Chase and Charles has a similar wave shape as it tails off.

I think it's just written on different days with info added.

I can’t believe I am now studying hand writing

Yes on closer inspection a lot of the letters and numbers match up.

Do we know why he was paying money to Chase’s girlfriend?

 

[Tortoise]

I can’t believe I am now studying hand writing

Yes on closer inspection a lot of the letters and numbers match up.

Do we know why he was paying money to Chase’s girlfriend?

I've not heard of a reason for him having her account details, but I could make a guess that there may have been times when Chase asked him to pay money directly into her account to cover a domestic bill if he was say too overdrawn to pay it. But that's pure speculation.

 

[missy1974]

I have learned that there are words that google doesn't believe exist. My phone and computer insist limine, prosecutorial and probative are NOT words.

These are words you use a lot when writing motions or briefs! I've just had to learn to ignore the spell check. Which is difficult for me to do.

So, do the best you can and we will figure it out! I hope these attorneys are less annoying than the ones I recently transcribed. I could hardly stand it.

I think I'm in the wrong field, or maybe I'm just not excited about this week. LOL

Many years ago, I could transcribe medical reports lol McGee talks fast, but at at least I can understand him for the most part ;-) I have to go to work this morning but should be able to get some more done later!

I was having problems finding his experts... maybe you can all help me out ...

Suzanne Serdaily (phonetic)... couldn't find the proper spelling of her name.. she's an investigator, works with death penalty cases

Vlad Jonovic (phonetic)... cell tower expert... we know he's from Washington because the defense mentioned they wanted him to be there when the pro's witness testifies.

the Dennis Shobren or Schobren (phonetic) ... forensic accountant, mainly with trusts and wills.

 

[missy1974]

MSM either received cheques from Joey in the mail or via CM. On a specific occasion it appears Sequeida senior had a blazing row with CM over a cheque intended for MSM that had not arrived. JM had told MSM that the money had been given to CM. CM told Sequeida senior that he had used the $$ for other materials. It is not clear how CM would have accessed those funds (e.g. was it part of a payment to himself or a cheque to MSM that went missing?)

I think this is very interesting because it creates a factual narrative that CM was increasingly exploiting JM but also that his involvement in the business was coming to an end.

RSBM

Now do you see where I was confused though? If Joey wrote a cheque to MSM, how did CM cash that cheque? I don't see Joey paying CM cash or cheque for CM to turn around and pay MSM, that was not the deal, and that is not how they did business. Sequida made it very clear in his testimony that Joey paid them directly, sometimes CM hand delivered the cheque in an envelope.

 

[oceanblueeyes]

Yes

The problem is that the Prosecution is not allowed to interpret the evidence for us until closing.

So we have to wait for other witnesses to fill in the gaps.

I do worry a bit that the prosecution missed the chance to paint the big picture in the opening statement. We were told what the big evidence was, but I don't think they put it together into a story very well.

When closely analyzing what has already been entered by the state its quite damaging.

Imo there is going to be a vast amount of CE pieces but the problem for the state it's hard to tie all of it together in OS.

I am sure in CA the state will use visuals that will show step by step in great detail all of the events (CE) that occurred before he premeditated to murder them.

What he did and said afterwards will be entered and will be equally damaging.

I remember during Scott Peterson's CA death penalty trial many posters felt ADA Rick Distaso wasnt going to get a guilty verdict. Many at that time from afar thought he did a terrible job. He was one of those ADAs who was dead serious. He was 'just the facts' kind of man with no fanfare. Very unassuming but tireless.

In RDs CA he said something I've never forgotten. He looked straight at the jury and asked a simple question.

'How many coincidences are you willing to believe and still be able to call yourself reasonable people?'

He not only got a guilty verdict but SP was also sentenced to death.

Imo

 

[Tortoise]

Going off on another tangent here but I listened to Jennifer Mitchley's testimony for the first time yesterday. That was a bolt out of the blue was it not, that she remembered turning on the porch light because she heard a noise! I wonder why that recollection suddenly came back to her 9 years later - presumably it wasn't in anyone's notes because the prosecution would have had her look at them to refresh her memory.

Gosh I wonder what she heard. She was very certain about it. Not what Mr McGee wanted to come out of her cross-examination I'm sure.

 

[mrjitty]

I've not heard of a reason for him having her account details, but I could make a guess that there may have been times when Chase asked him to pay money directly into her account to cover a domestic bill if he was say too overdrawn to pay it. But that's pure speculation.

This is why the financial forensics will be fascinating.

DuGal did not have probable cause to get further warrants - e.g. bank accounts - so we didn't yet hear about what was discovered

But we have seen a number of cheques discussed and I think whem the financial investigator(s) take the stand we will hear about various interesting transactions.

It seems for instance that the payments relating to the "Paul Mitchell" project are key

 

[Mica]

Many years ago, I could transcribe medical reports lol McGee talks fast, but at at least I can understand him for the most part ;-) I have to go to work this morning but should be able to get some more done later!

I was having problems finding his experts... maybe you can all help me out ...

Suzanne Serdaily (phonetic)... couldn't find the proper spelling of her name.. she's an investigator, works with death penalty cases

Vlad Jonovic (phonetic)... cell tower expert... we know he's from Washington because the defense mentioned they wanted him to be there when the pro's witness testifies.

the Dennis Shobren or Schobren (phonetic) ... forensic accountant, mainly with trusts and wills.

Maybe Dennis Shogren?

Riverside Forensic Accounting & Fraud Examination - Shogren & Associates

 

[Tortoise]

This is why the financial forensics will be fascinating.

DuGal did not have probably cause to get further warrants - e.g. bank accounts - so we didn't yet hear about what was discovered

But we have seen a number of cheques discussed and I think where the financial investigator(s) take the stand we will hear about various interesting transactions.

It seems for instance that the payments relating to the "Paul Mitchell" project are key

Yes, good job their bodies were discovered when they were and not say 20 years later when records would have been harder if not impossible to obtain.

 

[mrjitty]

RSBM

Now do you see where I was confused though? If Joey wrote a cheque to MSM, how did CM cash that cheque? I don't see Joey paying CM cash or cheque for CM to turn around and pay MSM, that was not the deal, and that is not how they did business. Sequida made it very clear in his testimony that Joey paid them directly, sometimes CM hand delivered the cheque in an envelope.

We are going to find out the answer to this in due course. Did such a cheque ever exist? If so was it fraudulently banked? For some reason there seems to be significant dispute over at least one payment where MSM had to chase it back to Joey. I think what is fascinating is that the business was evolving and there is the clear implication that Joey was paying CM for effectively nothing. Sequida claims they told Joey in the lead up to his disappearance that the 3 way partnership was not working. Essentially CM was not needed.

So interesting times ahead. Like most businesses, there will be a paper trail not to mention financials.

Joseph’s response to that e-mail was, as he had
talked about before, that Chase was responsible for the
materials, the creating, as far as the materials go, to ship.
And that if he wouldn’t pay that, Joseph would take care of it
again, like he had done in the past. Basically, he would pay
the debt.

 

[missy1974]

Maybe Dennis Shogren?

Riverside Forensic Accounting & Fraud Examination - Shogren & Associates

That looks right! Thanks, the names were driving me crazy lol

 

[mrjitty]

When closely analyzing what has already been entered by the state its quite damaging.

Imo there is going to be a vast amount of CE pieces but the problem for the state it's hard to tie all of it together in OS.

I am sure in CA the state will use visuals that will show step by step in great detail all of the events (CE) that occurred before he premeditated to murder them.

What he did and said afterwards will be entered and will be equally damaging.

I remember during Scott Peterson's CA death penalty trial many posters felt ADA Rick Distaso wasnt going to get a guilty verdict. Many at that time from afar thought he did a terrible job. He was one of those ADAs who was dead serious. He was 'just the facts' kind of man with no fanfare. Very unassuming but tireless.

In RDs CA he said something I've never forgotten. He looked straight at the jury and asked a simple question.

'How many coincidences are you willing to believe and still be able to call yourself reasonable people?'

He not only got a guilty verdict but SP was also sentenced to death.

Imo

Yes - great anecdote.

IMO there is no serious possibility CM is innocent. Even if you can believe the stealing of the money is just bad timing for poor chase, the backdating cannot be explained.

 

[Tortoise]

Many years ago, I could transcribe medical reports lol McGee talks fast, but at at least I can understand him for the most part ;-) I have to go to work this morning but should be able to get some more done later!

I was having problems finding his experts... maybe you can all help me out ...

Suzanne Serdaily (phonetic)... couldn't find the proper spelling of her name.. she's an investigator, works with death penalty cases

Vlad Jonovic (phonetic)... cell tower expert... we know he's from Washington because the defense mentioned they wanted him to be there when the pro's witness testifies.

the Dennis Shobren or Schobren (phonetic) ... forensic accountant, mainly with trusts and wills.

Vlad Jovanovic

Court appointed Expert witness for Call Detailed Records from cellular phones.
Involved in 15 trials, testified under oath 10 times.
Interpretation of call records, geolocation of calls, accuracy, etc.

https://www.linkedin.com/in/vladan-jovanovic-a56a905

 

[Tortoise]

Many years ago, I could transcribe medical reports lol McGee talks fast, but at at least I can understand him for the most part ;-) I have to go to work this morning but should be able to get some more done later!

I was having problems finding his experts... maybe you can all help me out ...

Suzanne Serdaily (phonetic)... couldn't find the proper spelling of her name.. she's an investigator, works with death penalty cases

Vlad Jonovic (phonetic)... cell tower expert... we know he's from Washington because the defense mentioned they wanted him to be there when the pro's witness testifies.

the Dennis Shobren or Schobren (phonetic) ... forensic accountant, mainly with trusts and wills.

Suzanne Serdahely

I have worked in the field of Criminal Defense since 1991. I have worked in both the Federal arena as well as at the State level.

Specialties: I am a Capital Case Expert. I am also recognized by the Court as an expert in homicide, crime scenes, gangs and sexual assaults.

https://www.linkedin.com/in/suzanne-serdahely-8ab425b

 

[Force Ten]

The business card with all the writing on looks like different people wrote on it.

That can’t all be written by Joey as each line looks like different hand writing.

My hand writing tends to shift a bit. I will at times interject upper and lower case as well like seen on the card. If you compare the the H's, S's and C's they're all identical.

 

[Force Ten]

Yes - there is something deeply fishy about the state of the Trooper IMO

I've always felt there was an unusual amount of dirt on the passenger side floor.

 

[Force Ten]

I can’t believe I am now studying hand writing

Yes on closer inspection a lot of the letters and numbers match up.

Do we know why he was paying money to Chase’s girlfriend?

Chase was in jail for a couple months in the early part of '09 and Joseph was paying Cathy's rent and groceries, that might be why.

 

[KALI]

Mind blowing how Joey was so good to this creep. I've never had an employer who would have done that.

Chase was in jail for a couple months in the early part of '09 and Joseph was paying Cathy's rent and groceries, that might be why.

 

[asyousay]

My hand writing tends to shift a bit. I will at times interject upper and lower case as well like seen on the card. If you compare the the H's, S's and C's they're all identical.

I did afterwards and yes on second look a lot of similar traits.

 

[asyousay]

It’s so frustrating today is another day off so this week again will only be a 3 day for the jury.


I think Chase is pretty much guilty but I’m still not convinced he didn’t have help after the fact.

I am also at the moment very much on the fence about the family being killed in the home and my worry is if they can’t prove they was killed in the home then the Jury will wonder what else the prosecution have gotten wrong in the case.

I also think questions need answering on why Joey was so badly beaten and why he was restrained because to me that points to him not being killed in the home. So with all the work the prosecution have done what is their theory on him being tied up and being beaten before being bludgeoned to death?