CA - Joey, Summer, Gianni, Joseph Jr McStay Murders - Feb 4th 2010 #2

[Niner]

Tuesday, January 22nd:
*Trial continues (Day 9) (@ 9:30am PT) - CA - McStay Family: Joseph (40), Summer (43), Gianni (4) & Joey Jr (3) (Feb. 4, 2010, Fallbrook; found Nov. 11, 2013) - *Charles "Chase" Ray Merritt (57/now 60) arrested (11/5/14) & indicted (11/7/14) of 4 counts of murder with special circumstance; plead not guilty. DP case.
12 jurors & 6 alternates were finalized on Tuesday (12/11/18). 8 women & 4 men, while the alternates include 4 men & 2 women. Dec. 19 hearing will focus on evidence & details about possible jury visits to the both the desert grave sites & the McStay family home in Fallbrook. Trial to start 1/7/19.
1/7/19 Day 1: Judge will allow live stream of trial. Judge gives jurors initial instructions. Judge not happy with the number of cameras in the courtroom. Opening statements are done. Trial continues 1/8.
1/8/19 Day 2: State witnesses: Susan Blake (Joseph's mother). Michael McStay (Joseph’s brother). Trial continues on 1/9.
1/9/19 Day 3: Prosecutor tells the judge Mike McStay doesn't want to be shown on camera today. Judge denies request. State witnesses: Jennifer Michley (or Mitchley), former Fallbrook neighbor of the McStays, she now lives out of state. Michael McStay. Trial continues on 1/10.
1/10/19 Day 4: State witnesses: Michael McStay (subject to recall). Bruce Carter, was security for the San Jacinto Shopping Center mall where the McStay's Isuzu Trooper was towed from on the Mexico Border town of San Ysidro. David Jackson, worked for the last witness. He was a security guard at the parking where vehicle was towed from. Kathleen Conwell, in 2010 she was an animal control officer for San Diego County. Sgt. Michael Tingley, San Diego Co. Sheriff's Office. In 2010, he was a patrol deputy for the Fallbrook area. Trial continues on Monday, 1/14. Will be dark on Fridays.
1/14/19 Day 5: State witnesses: Jeffrey "McGyver" McCargar (he was friends with Joseph & Summer. He introduced them). Det. Troy DuGal, from San Diego Sheriff's office. Tomorrow 1/15 trial will go from 9:30am to 12 noon, as a juror has an appointment.
1/15/19 Day 6: State witness: Ret. Detective Troy DuGal. Trial continues on 1/16.
1/16/19 Day 7: State witnesses: Det. Troy DuGal. Denys Williams, a forensic evidence technician for San Diego County, now retired, since 2014. Trial continues on 1/17.
1/17/19 Day 8: State witnesses: Denys Williams, retired evidence technician with San Diego Co. She took photos inside the McStay home. David Sequeida, employee from Metro Sheet Metal. Dark on Fridays, continues on Tuesday, 1/22, as Monday the 21st is a Holiday.

 

[mrjitty]

Actually there was a bit of discussion about him being in Hawaii. I don't where it first surfaced, it might have been on the E Investigates show, but it's been around since at least then. Dugal had a limited scope on who and what he could verify. Mcgee (was it him?) attempted to make Dugal and SD look bad because they didn't follow up and verify. He had no reason to, nothing merited for LE to verify anyone's whereabouts on Feb 4 or thereafter. He only had to go on what people offered up.

I think the defence are simply gaslighting us here - trying to suggest that DK has not been investigated because police were too focussed on CM

But murder investigations proceed using the Theory of the Case

So you start with theory 1. CM did it. And you also look at theory 2. DK did it. And probably also theory 3. JM killed his own family. etc.

As you then investigate, you will discover evidence that points in one direction. Indeed if you investigate well, and your theory is correct, you will typically find a lot of evidence in one direction - which is what happened here. And as a question of logical, inductive reasoning, as evidence emerges, it becomes highly likely the original theory (or logical premise) was correct

By contrast, you won't find much evidence or indeed any evidence to support your DK theory. So eventually you abandon it.

But it never has been the case that the prosecution comes to trial determined to rule out every other suspect. The defence claims the absence of this evidence is a big red flag but that is a logical fallacy. In all likelihood, detectives did investigate DK and whereas CMs alibi fell over, it would seem DKs did not.

My guess is the defence case will largely consist of speculation and whataboutism re DK rather than any hard proof he was involved. They will claim the failure to rule out this speculation is reasonable doubt. But of course such a standard would make the prosecutions task impossible

Have the prosecution 100% ruled out the possibility JM was a secret drug dealer and a mexican gang rubbed him out?

In reality that can never be 100% ruled out!

 

[katydid23]

I think the idea that is alibi has not been checked out is silly and defence grasping at straws

That's what I assumed, after the Opening Statements. But after watching Dugal's testimony, he didn't seem to set the record straight. It seemed like he almost mumbled something about online reservations and a receipt? I didnt hear any solid, 100% credible certainty from him.

 

[asyousay]

I think the idea that is alibi has not been checked out is silly and defence grasping at straws

Considering it is part of their opening statement they would be stupid not to have worked on this line of thinking. Like the knife angle I definitely want to see solid proof on what they are claiming.

 

[Tortoise]

That's what I assumed, after the Opening Statements. But after watching Dugal's testimony, he didn't seem to set the record straight. It seemed like he almost mumbled something about online reservations and a receipt? I didnt hear any solid, 100% credible certainty from him.

Mini-transcript, cross-examination of Troy DuGal by Rajan Maline, Day 7, Part 3, starts at 32.20 in the below video:

RM: When you first made contact with Dan Kavanaugh he represented to you that he was

Pros: Objection – hearsay.

Judge – Well I don’t know what he’s asking, I don’t know if that’s basis for something that he did later or just a statement of Dan Kavanaugh. At this point the objection is sustained as hearsay.

RM: Did you, is there a reason why you waited to interview Dan Kavanaugh in person and not right away?

TD: He was in Hawaii.

RM: And, at least that’s what he told you right?

TD: I actually later confirmed he was in Hawaii during the time the family went missing.

RM: What did you do to confirm he was in Hawaii?

TD: I got some sort of, some sort of, well I got his statement and then I asked him for his itinerary from the flight and he provided me with something, I don’t know if it was a receipt for the ticket, so it was, it was substantial.

RM: A reservation, online, that’s been provided to you?

TD: It’s possible.

RM: Ok, you didn’t do any independent verification of what he gave you, did you?

TD: No, I had no reason to do that at that time.

RM: Ok what about later on, let’s say the entire 2 ½ years before you handed over the investigation to the FBI? Did you do anything independently to verify that the information he gave you was correct?

TD: No I was looking for a family missing and that wouldn’t have brought me to the family.

 

[asyousay]

Mini-transcript, cross-examination of Troy DuGal by Rajan Maline, Day 7, Part 3, starts at 32.20 in the below video:

RM: When you first made contact with Dan Kavanaugh he represented to you that he was

Pros: Objection – hearsay.

Judge – Well I don’t know what he’s asking, I don’t know if that’s basis for something that he did later or just a statement of Dan Kavanaugh. At this point the objection is sustained as hearsay.

RM: Did you, is there a reason why you waited to interview Dan Kavanaugh in person and not right away?

TD: He was in Hawaii.

RM: And, at least that’s what he told you right?

TD: I actually later confirmed he was in Hawaii during the time the family went missing.

RM: What did you do to confirm he was in Hawaii?

TD: I got some sort of, some sort of, well I got his statement and then I asked him for his itinerary from the flight and he provided me with something, I don’t know if it was a receipt for the ticket, so it was, it was substantial.

RM: A reservation, online, that’s been provided to you?

TD: It’s possible.

RM: Ok, you didn’t do any independent verification of what he gave you, did you?

TD: No, I had no reason to do that at that time.

RM: Ok what about later on, let’s say the entire 2 ½ years before you handed over the investigation to the FBI? Did you do anything independently to verify that the information he gave you was correct?

TD: No I was looking for a family missing and that wouldn’t have brought me to the family.

So this isn’t proof so the defense is correct because a reservation online is not proof as I can book a plane ticket right now but it doesn’t mean I will board the plane.

 

[Tortoise]

Question, cuz you are so smart hehe
What does the prosecution say is happening in that video? is he coming or leaving?

I had always thought that the video was showing a vehicle leaving, hence the theory that they left to go get something to eat, or go pick up the toys.

There are two videos. One is during daylight and the other is after dark. The one after dark shows a vehicle leaving from the direction of the McStay residence.

I'm going to go back and view it again, I believe when I watched it I thought the daylight video shows a vehicle turning into the McStay driveway, it could be the green Dodge, but I'm going to go back and watch again and will report back

 

[mrjitty]

That's what I assumed, after the Opening Statements. But after watching Dugal's testimony, he didn't seem to set the record straight. It seemed like he almost mumbled something about online reservations and a receipt? I didnt hear any solid, 100% credible certainty from him.

Remember DuGal basically worked a missing persons case on his lonesome.

In 2014 come the murder police from a different department and spend a year on painstaking gathering of evidence with a well resourced investigation.

We have not heard from them yet as the Prosecution is basically calling the witnesses in chrono order.

Do we really believe they spent no time on DK?

 

[Tortoise]

So this isn’t proof so the defense is correct because a reservation online is not proof as I can book a plane ticket right now but it doesn’t mean I will board the plane.

I don't think we can say from his answer what exactly he was provided with. It was defense guy who suggested it was an online reservation, DuGal said it was substantial and he's not sure if it was a receipt for the ticket. I wonder if this was revisited in the re-direct after cross-exam. Anyone remember?

 

[mrjitty]

So this isn’t proof so the defense is correct because a reservation online is not proof as I can book a plane ticket right now but it doesn’t mean I will board the plane.

It most certainly is proof.

Just not conclusive. Of course he might have flown back again or cancelled or whatever.

 

[missy1974]

There are two videos. One is during daylight and the other is after dark. The one after dark shows a vehicle leaving from the direction of the McStay residence.

I'm going to go back and view it again, I believe when I watched it I thought the daylight video shows a vehicle turning into the McStay driveway, it could be the green Dodge, but I'm going to go back and watch again and will report back

The reason I had asked is because the defense in their opening statement said that DuGal only got 1 hour of video, and it started at 7:00pm and the video didn't capture anyone pulling into the driveway, so Merritt would have had to have been there by 7 for him to later be captured at 7:47pm, leaving. Looking back on pro's OS, they didn't specify if it was coming or going, and I missed the neighbor's testimony last week, and never did go back and listen ( I had 4 days to do this lol I guess I should have! )

 

[Tortoise]

On February 4th 2010 these were the times of sunset and twilight

Sunset 5.22 pm
Civil Twilight 5.48 pm (that's the exact time the 2 min 37 sec call was made from Joey's phone to Merritt's phone and then Merritt's phone went off grid)
Nautical Twilight 6.18 pm
Astronomical Twilight 6.47 pm

Sunrise and sunset times in Temecula, February 2010

 

[asyousay]

It most certainly is proof.

Just not conclusive. Of course he might have flown back again or cancelled or whatever.

Well the jury will want conclusive proof that’s a given.

As DK claims to have spent so much time there then he must have photos , bank statements and even people he met over that period of time. That’s a lot more conclusive than booking a airplane ticket that he may never of used.

 

[mrjitty]

I don't think we can say from his answer what exactly he was provided with. It was defense guy who suggested it was an online reservation, DuGal said it was substantial and he's not sure if it was a receipt for the ticket. I wonder if this was revisited in the re-direct after cross-exam. Anyone remember?

The thing is, the murder police will have been all up in DKs phone data and banking once the bodies turned up in 2014.

The idea that they didn't go thru his Alibi carefully is pretty farfetched IMO

He is an obvious suspect - especially due to the arguments about the business and the paypal records

This is all material that the police have located and a lot more besides!

 

[mrjitty]

Well the jury will want conclusive proof that’s a given.

As DK claims to have spent so much time there then he must have photos , bank statements and even people he met over that period of time. That’s a lot more conclusive than booking a airplane ticket that he may never of used.

DK isn't on trial.

 

[missy1974]

It would be awfully brazen of the defense to suggest that no one checked out DK's alibi if in fact, there is proof in the files. We know that DuGal really didn't. I will be surprised if SBSD did, because that would mean the defense of 'DK did it', and 'confirmation bias' kind of falls apart IMO.

 

[missy1974]

The thing is, the murder police will have been all up in DKs phone data and banking once the bodies turned up in 2014.

The idea that they didn't go thru his Alibi carefully is pretty farfetched IMO

He is an obvious suspect - especially due to the arguments about the business and the paypal records

This is all material that the police have located and a lot more besides!

If we find out that they didn't, will that change your mind? or it doesn't matter?

IIRC DuGal said he didn't even know DK had a paypal account. I was surprised at that because in the early months and years, there was a lot of talk about who was accessing the money and if it was legal. Isn't this what Patrick was wanting SD sheriff's dept to look at, or specifically, DuGal?

 

[Mica]

That is a 6 week surfing vacation. How could he afford to go away to Hawaii for that long? That is quite a luxury to be able to do that.

Bessie posted a spreadsheet of EIP financial transactions years ago. Based on the info she had 4 payments were sent from the PayPal account to DK from Jan. 4 - Jan. 19 each in the amount of $100. Then on Feb. 6th a request was put in by DK for $800. There was another request to transfer funds to PayPal from bank account by an unknown on Feb. 6th for $2000. That transfer was completed on Feb. 9th.

According to these records the $800 request by DK did not follow the pattern of how JM paid him. He was paying him in increments of $100. Same in Dec. 2009 with the exception of two $50 payments.

Post 318
https://www.websleuths.com/forums/threads/earth-inspired-products-eip.190778/page-16

 

[Tortoise]

The reason I had asked is because the defense in their opening statement said that DuGal only got 1 hour of video, and it started at 7:00pm and the video didn't capture anyone pulling into the driveway, so Merritt would have had to have been there by 7 for him to later be captured at 7:47pm, leaving. Looking back on pro's OS, they didn't specify if it was coming or going, and I missed the neighbor's testimony last week, and never did go back and listen ( I had 4 days to do this lol I guess I should have! )

Whoever it is had to have arrived before it left at 7.47 pm.

 

[missy1974]

huh... so during testimony, DuGal said 'he wished he could prove that and still can't prove that' ... in regards to stealing money from Joseph would have given them probable cause (to get the records). I wonder how the jury will process that comment.

He gets info from DK, but doesn't actually check to see if it's true by comparing it to the records... *sigh*

omg he doesn't even know if DK has a paypal account!!!!

I don't like the prosecutor objecting all the time...looks like they are hiding something... JMO

Again he says there was no way to know if the money flowing was illegal without Joseph's words... ugggh

He asked if they (DK and CM) had a legal right, they said yes, so he just carried on and didn't investigate the transactions! CRAZY!

Asked if he requested ANY banking information from DK... he says no... (which means they probably do NOT have any record of Hawaii trip, where they may have been able to see transactions IMO) Also didn't request CM's at that time.

still listening... lol

bringing this post forward from when DuGal was testifying.... I was waiting to hear the DK info... this is what we got, and it left me wondering what the ...