CA - Joey, Summer, Gianni, Joseph Jr McStay Murders - Feb 4th 2010 #2

[asyousay]

#McStay - Investigators ask Merritt about Summer. He says "She's just...uh...everyone told Joseph not to marry her." Merritt says Joseph would always say, "Oh she's just Columbian.

Ouch

 

[Edmo]

Super frustrating currently watching their livestream on Facebook but of course they cut in and out to jabber on and do commercials

It's back up and seems much better now on L&C site. So far, so good.

 

[asyousay]

#McStay - Merritt says he had a running tab with Joseph. He gives the example, "He owed me $10K, I owed him $15K" Merritt said Summer never liked that deal with him.

I’m confused as this is not just a chunk of change if so much money was being handled why did Chase need to steal?

 

[Texas Red]

Just think how interesting it would be if he didnt take the fifth?

If the DT assumes he will take the fifth they would make sure they call him in a nano second.

The problem with this risky move is they have no idea what he will do or say if they call him to testify.

It could easily backfire on the defense big time.

Then they have given the state a chance to cross examine him and he may know things that will hurt their client even more that would have remained unknown to the jury if they hadn't called him.

It's a very risky move for the defense since DK has no legal obligation to talk to anyone with the defense.

It would be like pulling the trigger of a firearm hoping it isnt loaded yet finding out too late its cocked and fully loaded.

The state could easily tell the jury during closing they did not call him since he is not involved in murdering the victims.
But telling the jury the defense had every legal right to call him if they had chosen to do so.

Imo

I agree it would certainly be risky. This is why I don’t think the defense has yet decided what they’re going to to regarding DK. I believe after the prosecution has rested and when the defense is presenting it’s case, if at that time they feel way behind they’ll call DK as a hail mary, figuring that they have little to lose.

 

[Edmo]

I’m confused as this is not just a chunk of change if so much money was being handled why did Chase need to steal?

We can guess for now until the financials come out, but I believe we will find out CM owed JM $$$ and JM was fed-up with him over his debt(s) / business / gambling and was "cutting" him off as a partner. This probably infuriated CM. Not only did he kill them, he also took JM's $$$ as and added, "I'll show you" type of anger.

 

[Edmo]

Also, the Prosecution, in OS, stated that the motive for the murders was greed.

 

[Tortoise]

We can guess for now until the financials come out, but I believe we will find out CM owed JM $$$ and JM was fed-up with him over his debt(s) / business / gambling and was "cutting" him off as a partner. This probably infuriated CM. Not only did he kill them, he also took JM's $$$ as and added, "I'll show you" type of anger.

Just shy of $43,000 was what the prosecution say he owed Joey, according to Joey's email (which I haven't seen).

So that probably doesn't include money he took, after the email.

 

[MrsPC]

I'm just getting here today...are they done for the day or just on a break?

 

[Plumeria5]

Cathy Russon@cathyrusson

#McStay - Merritt says he usually pays cash for everything and doesn't really owe a lot of money.

Really?

 

[Edmo]

I'm just getting here today...are they done for the day or just on a break?

On break rn. Didn't catch for how long, sorry.

 

[asyousay]

Cathy Russon@cathyrusson

#McStay - Merritt says he usually pays cash for everything and doesn't really owe a lot of money.

Really?

I am assuming he used cash a lot as his credit sucked?

 

[thelmadawg]

Yes i think people are forgetting the time frame of the website being created... This was the mid 2000s. Facebook wasn't even a thing until like 2006. Not many people were knowledgeable about web development or SEO

I think Joey was pretty clueless about the mechanics of the website DK built, or web protocols in general - though I have no doubt he paid for it. The rub was that DK's name was on the domain and he had total control. Thus his threats to shut down the EIP website were quite real and effective. Joey had to negotiate terms with him like it or not. But as was his nature, Joey was still giving him small amounts of "living" money nearly up until he went missing.

From all that we saw about DK, he was a nasty piece of work according to his former girlfriends, the text with Joey, etc. But in the end, sort of a peacock with no feathers, just a loud voice.

 

[asyousay]

We normally get two breaks during the day morning and one in the afternoon that are 15 minutes long each and the lunch break at 1 hour.

 

[Edmo]

I am assuming he used cash a lot as his credit sucked?

Or, he didn't want his gambling $$$ leaving a "paper trail?" Withdrawal cash then hit the casinos type of thing?

 

[fridaybaker]

My heart totally breaks for Summer. Its horrible to know how much she was vilified when the poor woman had been murdered in cold blood along with her babies and husband.

I couldnt ever understand the venom many seem to have against Summer. It was way over the top and bizarre imo.

Imo

I've been here since the beginning, and while many did bring up "negatives" about Summer, the vast majority of it was in the context of endeavoring to figure out what happened to this family. The entire cast of characters related to the mystery were discussed in depth on many occasions, including many suppositions and comments to the negative regarding each of them.

Was Summer on the receiving end of more of these negative comments and ideas than the other? Absolutely. However, as is obvious from reading early on about this case, she was the type of person who attracted attention: Colorful personality; lot's of opinions and not hesitant to express them; often a lightening rod within the larger family and with JM's friends/colleagues. Moreover, she seemed to be very much at the center of her family and social life -visible and involved. In addition, within the larger family, she was the center of some controversy, and there had been a CPS complaint about her before. It's natural that these things come out, if we are really here to discuss this case.

I do remember, though, that among all the "negatives" brought up about Summer, many here also brought up the positives. Many, many times, kudos were given to Summer for her willingness to go outside of the "establishment" with regard to health, education, etc., and to stand up for her prerogatives with her children. (One example of this is the virtually unanimous approval she received in these threads for shaming Chase Merritt for his poor example of pizza-eating manners in front of her children.) Hind sight is always 20/20, but the colorful, outspoken, at times controversial, person at the center of a mysterious disappearance, is going to receive more, and more intense, scrutiny than others. Especially when there has actually been a complaint filed against said person. Whether female, male, fat, skinny, rich, or poor.

The Websleuths concept is great in many ways, but the downside is that we are discussing real people, and real people, whether or not they are victims, aren't perfect. Most of us have messy lives; some victims are terrible people, etc. We're really wading into people's lives about whom we know nothing of substance (and, in many cases, we don't know at the outset whether they are, in fact, victims or perpetrators). It's so easy to now look back and slam posters who brought up negatives ideas/comments about Summer as being insensitive, cruel, etc., but I reject that. If we accept that the Websleuths concept is valid -where we discuss real, ongoing cases about real people (whom we don't personally know) then some "innocent" people will be "smeared" with "cruel" and "insensitive" comments. It's completely unjust (but so easy) to now castigate those who were attempting to find out what happened here by considering Summer's past, her personality, previous CPS complaints, etc. and to characterize those posters, either explicitly or implicitly, as gratuitous, mean-spirited, or anything other than participating in what Websleuths is all about: Finding out "what happened".

 

[oceanblueeyes]

He was also very close with Joey so why wouldn’t Joey do those things if he trusted him?

This is the same person who helped out Chase girlfriends when he was in jail and supported them? - he was just to damn kind for his own good imo

Yes Joey had a very generous heart most assuredly but I still dont believe he would give CM access to his business credit cards since he was a mere subcontractor and never an employee.

Didnt CM say in his police interview with LE his cut was 65 percent and out of that he was to pay for all supplies and materials?

I worked for over 2 decades for the largest bridge building construction company in my state. We had multiple subcontractors. The owner and Predident of the company was very close friends with many of the subcontractors but not once were they knowledgable about any of the company's financial matters. They were on their own financially.

They would simply give a quote which included any all materials, supplies, and all expenses they were legally responsible for paying.

They knew the amount of supplies and material that would be needed on every job they were going to do before they gave a quote.

Then they added other expenses they would incur such as payroll..taxes..bookeeping.. .and profit etc and would give a total amount it would take to complete that particular job and would submit another one when they wanted to quote subcontracting work coming up.

Subcontractors are responsible for everything they do if they were selected to be the subcontractor. They have their own business and have no affiliation with any companies they do subcontracting with.

They have their own business including accountants or someone with knowledge within their own family who files all proper paperwork and pays all bills.

At the end of each year they were provided with the proper tax forms to file on their own business taxes showing the gross amount they had earned yearly as a subcontractor for doing work for another company.

It was totally their responsibility to keep all invoices showing where THEY had paid showing all expenses incurred and monies made for all subcontracting work. CM was self employed. He was never Joey's employee.

I think early on it's more likely CM was trying to make excuses if LE checked all of Joey's financial activities.

Jmo

 

[Force Ten]

Did Joey also pay Dan K to do web work?

I know people mock the website, but 50K for a high ranking SEO website is not that expensive. The design is actually typical for an SEO oriented site - thats why so much text and clutter (I agree the UX is awful). I once had a client who had a similar site that made a tonne of money in the mid 00s

Many SEO firms charge retainers of many 1000s per month for this kind of work.

I don't know how high ranking it was. I'm sure there is a way to find out. DK may have some degree of knowledge in coding but the site itself was mediocre. Imo DK was probably didn't have hacker skills, at least not in the way we think of it. The guy talked a good game in making a name for himself. I have a family member who taught herself website design and her work was far superior to Dan's.

 

[asyousay]

Break for lunch

 

[mrjitty]

I don't know how high ranking it was. I'm sure there is a way to find out. DK may have a some degree of knowledge in coding the the site itself was mediocre. Imo DK was probably didn't have hacker skills, at least not in the way we think of it. The guy talked a good game in making a name for himself. I have a family member who taught herself website design and her work was far superior to Dan's.

A lot of SEO work has not that much too do with coding.

In those days, more about content loading and back link farms

It sounded to me from what I have read that DK used link farms to achieve the search traffic.

So basically you load your various webpages with keywords, then go out to the owners of domains which google ranks as having high domain "authority" and arrange for them to link to you. Usually you paid for these.

This was part of how google decided how important a site was. If other relevant important sites linked to you, then you got "SEO juice" from them.

I agree Dan's UX was poor. But he seemed to know about this stuff.

 

[fridaybaker]

It’s difficult to get a read on Merritt, you would think if he was able to orchestrate this whole charade including the misdirection pointing to Mexico, he wouldn’t say something like that. His behavior and statements made durning the interview could be a continuation of his misdirection ploy, with CM thinking that the investigator certainly wouldn’t expect the guilty party to say something so obviously incriminating. After all CM was well versed in poker strategy.

I don't think this is a case of CM's "continuation of his misdirection ploy". Yes, he is well versed in poker strategy, but poker doesn't involve long conversations! I do think that CM is intelligent enough to "orchestrate this whole charade including the misdirection pointing to Mexico", but that is an entirely different thing than speaking to someone.

Speech happens in split seconds and to be skillful at misleading, consistently, in a conversation would be quite difficult, I think. So much of our speech patterns and habits and inclinations are ingrained and much of our speech happens so quickly it's almost automatic. We're asked to comment on something that we know happened in the past, and it's almost impossible to override the brain and speak of it in the present.