CA - Joey, Summer, Gianni, Joseph Jr McStay Murders - Feb 4th 2010 #3

[oceanblueeyes]

Seems like the only thing that would be really damning is Chase's blood in the house. He had a cut on the 17th, although if he was hurt on the 4th, wouldn't it have been mostly healed? I don't understand why the prosecution would have withheld evidence like that in their opening statement if they have it. It's not like they can surprise the defense. They would want to get that out there up front to have it rattling around in the minds of the jurors.

At that time though they weren't looking at him as a suspect.

They would have to have a probable cause warrant at that time to even have a reason to take his DNA.

Did they even take photographs of his cut hand way back then when it was just a missing persons case?

It would depend on the severity of the wound. It could still be noticable to LE even if in the healing stage.

Imo

 

[mrjitty]

But that doesn’t explain letting Joey go home as how can Chase control who Joey tells?

So you can say he kills Summer because Joey told her what Chase had done but then Joey could of called his family in the the 4 hours they was apart, Joey could also of called the police or even gone to them.


I still think it’s more probable Joey was contained somehow by Chase that afternoon. If Chase was that concerned that Joey could grass him up to the cops that’s the only thing that makes sense here. Letting Joey go home would be too dangerous to Chase as he can’t control who Joey would tell what he had done.


So the point of my post is you can’t have it both ways. You can not say Chase was scared that Joey would get him sent back to Jail but in the next breath Joey swans out of lunch and is free to go about his business for another 5 hours where he can do exactly what Chase is scared of. It doesn’t add up
IMO

What shall Chase do?

Murder Joey at Chick-Fil-A?

We know Joey was alive and kicking for quite some time that afternoon and pinged close to home

 

[Funky funky]

I

So then I wonder why he says in his interview that Joey would never take the kids there. I think he maintained that over the years, didn't he? He said that it was NOT them on the Mexico video too. I don't understand the logic of that if he was the one that did the search on the computer. JMO

I think Chase is someone that likes to play ‘call your bluff’ he appears to always say the things that you would least expect a suspect to say as he is an over confident professional liar. Eg ‘I was definitely the last person to see him’ and his actions are also not what you would expect of a suspect eg. raising the alarm. He is somewhat hiding in plain sight, we had the Soham murders case over here and the main suspect appeared on TV, gave interviews and searched for the missing girls. Chase reminds me of Ian Huntley somewhat.

 

[asyousay]

What shall Chase do?

Murder Joey at Chick-Fil-A?

We know Joey was alive and kicking for quite some time that afternoon and pinged close to home

No but he can obviously take him to his storage work space by some pretence and restrain him there.

We know the phone pinged but we have not seen any concrete proof that Joey actually had the phone at the point as far as I am aware.

 

[Texas Red]

What shall Chase do?

Murder Joey at Chick-Fil-A?

We know Joey was alive and kicking for quite some time that afternoon and pinged close to home

We know that Joey's phoned pinged, however, we don't know who was in possession of the phone.

 

[mrjitty]

Reading some of the posts on here make me scratch my head as so many things still don’t add up to me.


Like on the 2nd Feb Chase takes the first step in ripping off Joey and he obviously doesn’t give a crap about the consequences of this. He knows Joey will find out whether it be in hours or days.

So we can see from his record he has done time for theft and Burglary before and he obviously never learned his lesson and did it over and over. But he never used violence or aggression from what we know.

So why would he go that much further with the Mcstays?

Was he always planning to kill them from whenever he decided to make the cheuqe out on the 2nd?

Why after the lunch and the complete break down of the relationship would he let Joey leave knowing that if Joey called the cops or went to the cops he would end up back in jail?

This all makes sense when you look at Joey as being in an abusive relationship

usually these are domestic relationships but more rarely siblings or "friends"

The cycle of abuse normally continues and escalates until the abuser does something that can no longer be smoothed over

e.g. a domestic abuser beats his wife so bad she is hospitalized

the point is this personality type is reckless

eventually he escalates in spite of consequence

my own experience of the sociopath is that when they escalate to the point of significant fall out - they simply blame this on the victim

 

[mrjitty]

We know that Joey's phoned pinged, however, we don't know who was in possession of the phone.

True but he called Chase at a different location, so its most likely it was indeed Joey calling Chase unless you want to argue Chase had Joeys phone and someone else had Chase's phone? Chases phone is switched off at exactly this time.

On February 4 Joseph McStay – while in Fallbrook – placed a phone call to Chase Merritt at 5:47. The call lasts 2 1/2 minutes.

 

[mrjitty]

No but he can obviously take him to his storage work space by some pretence and restrain him there.

We know the phone pinged but we have not seen any concrete proof that Joey actually had the phone at the point as far as I am aware.

Maybe but my point is rather, Chase likely had no opportunity to kill Joey that afternoon, which would explain why he allowed Joey to go home. He had no other option.

The idea that he somehow lured him to another location is 100% speculation

 

[Tortoise]

He was planning it as of January 28th when he set up the fake passport search on the McStay's computer. Easily done considering the amount of time he spent at their house. It was alarming to hear him talk about their habits in such detail. You've probably covered this, but is it even possible to fake a search date? And if Chase couldn't figure out he was already set up as a vendor in Quickbooks, it's quite possible his statement about not being computer savvy was honest.

I'm not sure he couldn't figure out he was already a vendor, he knew how to set up a new vendor and create and delete cheques, which tells me he could do the basics on the QB system. I think it more likely he couldn't access Joey's vendors remotely so he was working it as a different user, especially if Joey was logged in on his home PC which he may have been.

It is my belief that he decided he had to make a cheque on Joey's computer which would match the lowercase way he had set it up, and make it appear Joey was using the lowercase vendor name too. He never banked that cheque and so it could be a case of he only did it for that purpose, or he had time afterwards to think about it and realised Joey would have no need for two vendors and the timing would link him to being in the house when the family disappeared. I think that is when he made those long phone calls in a panic to QuickBooks to try and get it all deleted.

I think the dogs being put outside tells me he attacked Summer in the house because he was afraid her dog Bear would attack him and bark.

 

[minazoe]

For me the possible firing is neither here nor there, I think Joey wanted his money back and wanted a big chunk of the Saudi job as payback. So basically CM would do the work and not see a dime, because he owed bigtime.

CM wasn't going to pay back JACK.

I bet Joey told him he needed to be paid back and that he knew CM was playing games with the vendors and that he was going to shut that down too, because too many problems.

he prob tried to be nice about it, just changing the way we are doing things going forward etc.

CM ripped off past bosses, that's how he ended up in jail.

he's also burgled homes of strangers, this is telling because it shows a willingness to invade
the sanctity of someones home, to steal and defile.

CM's trashing of Summer was so subtly delivered that it infected the case and definitely had many people thinking she was a mysterious evil poisoner. I thought perhaps CM was in fact poisoning Joey and making him ill.

we honestly don't know how long he was counting on Joey being gone, planning on taking everything Joey had, planning on raping his woman, destroying his children. One thing is for sure, he wasn't doing the Saudi job for zero money while Joey and them built their brand new kitchen in their brand new house.

I think the wedding dress was out because chase told his girlfriend she could have whatever she wanted.

mOO

 

[Tortoise]

So then I wonder why he says in his interview that Joey would never take the kids there. I think he maintained that over the years, didn't he? He said that it was NOT them on the Mexico video too. I don't understand the logic of that if he was the one that did the search on the computer. JMO

I think he uses reverse psychology, as a well practiced liar. If the police discover it's not the McStays it would look like he was trying to steer the investigation to Mexico which only a guilty party would need to do.

 

[katydid23]

But that doesn’t explain letting Joey go home as how can Chase control who Joey tells?

So you can say he kills Summer because Joey told her what Chase had done but then Joey could of called his family in the the 4 hours they was apart, Joey could also of called the police or even gone to them.


I still think it’s more probable Joey was contained somehow by Chase that afternoon. If Chase was that concerned that Joey could grass him up to the cops that’s the only thing that makes sense here. Letting Joey go home would be too dangerous to Chase as he can’t control who Joey would tell what he had done.


So the point of my post is you can’t have it both ways. You can not say Chase was scared that Joey would get him sent back to Jail but in the next breath Joey swans out of lunch and is free to go about his business for another 5 hours where he can do exactly what Chase is scared of. It doesn’t add up
IMO

What if Joey gave him an ultimatum. Told Chase that he needed to give him a big down payment on the money owed and return the cash from the stolen check by X amount of time, OR ELSE ....

And so that is why Chase allowed Joey to walk away from the lunch table, because Chase knew he had a small bit of time to get his plan together?

 

[asyousay]

Maybe but my point is rather, Chase likely had no opportunity to kill Joey that afternoon, which would explain why he allowed Joey to go home. He had no other option.

The idea that he somehow lured him to another location is 100% speculation

Can we not speculate on here?

Until I see concrete evidence I still am not convinced Joey made it home. He didn’t answer Summers phone calls and instead listened to voice mails but oddly didn’t call her back. He also listened to previous voice mails he had already listened to earlier in the day.

So I am allowed to voice my opinion and say something doesn’t add up to me . If you don’t like my train of thoughts then please ignore them. My feelings won’t be hurt.

 

[Tortoise]

True but he called Chase at a different location, so its most likely it was indeed Joey calling Chase unless you want to argue Chase had Joeys phone and someone else had Chase's phone? Chases phone is switched off at exactly this time.

I'm wondering if he knew someone along the route where he could borrow a truck and leave his phone with them. He then arranged to meet Joey somewhere not far away under some pretext of sorting it all out, like a remote spot just south of Corona there is a lot of uninhabited terrain by the looks of it, killed him and left his body there or restrained him and left him there, and took his phone. When he called his phone from Joey's phone it was to tell whoever to turn his phone off, thereby creating the alibi that he wasn't in Fallbrook because his phone proves it.

 

[Tortoise]

we honestly don't know how long he was counting on Joey being gone

I'm not clear on what this bit means?

 

[Tortoise]

I think the phone call from the house landline to Joey's phone is an indication something was wrong already.

 

[Edmo]

I think once the state layout the entire evidence it will show and support their theory they were murdered at home.

Now it's just pieces of evidence but the state in CA will be able to link all the CE facts together that far more supports being murdered in their home rather than somewhere else. Imo

We just have to wait for them to enter everything showing why they believe the murder location was their home.

They get their theory based on what all of the evidence shows collectively overall.

Imo

It took SBSO awhile to put it all together, which is understandable almost 4 years after the actual crime took place. The DA (State's Case) is also a Death Penalty case where they HAVE to dot their I's and cross their T's, meaning the slow-go, step-by-step process that a DP case takes to try. We are in the beginning of where the bodies were found portion only and we will still hear more about that next week.

They don't want to make mistakes, they get a one-time shot at CM, unless hung jury etc. Even IF CM is found guilty AND sentenced to death, he automatically has rights to appeal, due to it being a DP case.

I believe the trial started EXACTLY when SBSO took over the case. Not from the night of the murders etc.

 

[Edmo]

I would agree, but from what I see, he doesn't have any charges of violence, or murder. He hasn't been charged with anything relating to the finances, fraud, theft, burglary or anything like that. It might go towards motive, but then I wonder why they didn't charge him with those crimes as well. JMO

IIRC, CM was sent to prison for Burglary and Receiving Stolen Property from his employer(s) back then. I believe it was $30K worth of tools/equipment he stole and then sold on one of the cases. If true, it shows he had no qualms about stealing from his employers. Maybe he was a gambling addict back then as well?

 

[Edmo]

The 3 strikes law in Calif was no joke. You could do serious time if you were convicted of a 3rd felony. I haven't really heard much about it lately but for a time it was very serious. I wonder if that was on Chase's mind back in 2010. Although his 2 prior convictions may have not applied to the 3 strikes law if they happened before the law went into effect.

The 3 strikes law was one of the reasons of prison overpopulation as well.

 

[Edmo]

I know about the 3 strike rule, but I don't know what charges/convictions they apply to. There was some talk about it in the Law & Crime chat about it the other day, and I got the impression that his charges didn't apply to that rule, but I have no idea. JMO Maybe someone that knows more about the Cali laws and the 3 strike rules can help us out

Back when the law was instituted, if you were convicted the 3rd time on ANY violence charge, you were eligible as 3rd striker. Then again, I've also heard of a person receiving his 3rd strike for stealing a $.99 burrito from a convenience store.