CA - Joey, Summer, Gianni, Joseph Jr McStay Murders - Feb 4th 2010 #3

[mrjitty]

IIRC, CM was sent to prison for Burglary and Receiving Stolen Property from his employer(s) back then. I believe it was $30K worth of tools/equipment he stole and then sold on one of the cases. If true, it shows he had no qualms about stealing from his employers. Maybe he was a gambling addict back then as well?

IMO this aspect is quite relevant to the case. With his history of theft, jail was nailed on IMO, if Joey reports it.

 

[mrjitty]

I think the phone call from the house landline to Joey's phone is an indication something was wrong already.

Or Joey was driving and couldn't answer? Or didn't hear his phone?

I miss calls from my home many times just walking round the supermarket when the kids call me to add something to the shopping list.

 

[mrjitty]

I'm wondering if he knew someone along the route where he could borrow a truck and leave his phone with them. He then arranged to meet Joey somewhere not far away under some pretext of sorting it all out, like a remote spot just south of Corona there is a lot of uninhabited terrain by the looks of it, killed him and left his body there or restrained him and left him there, and took his phone. When he called his phone from Joey's phone it was to tell whoever to turn his phone off, thereby creating the alibi that he wasn't in Fallbrook because his phone proves it.

I guess I just don't see the need for more complex theories, which involve extra people in the murder and extra vehicles which he would have to come up with on the spot.

For me the simplest explanation is he went over there, murdered them, and probably left them there, including the trooper.

IMO he then thought about it, and went back the next day and began the staging.

What i don't know is how he moved the trooper and his own truck without help.

The other thing is at 9.30pm Chase calls his lady after being dark for 4 hrs

So IMO he must have had this phone the whole time.

If he didn't, why turn it off? Just leave it on at his home all nite.

 

[katydid23]

Couldn't he drive the Trooper to the border, and then walk to a bus stop and make his way back by transit?

 

[mrjitty]

Couldn't he drive the Trooper to the border, and then walk to a bus stop and make his way back by transit?

Yes. But how did he move the trooper from the McStay house in the first place?

IMO he was in his own truck the night of the murders, and no way does he leave that at the McStay house.

So somehow he has to eventually go over to the McStays and move the trooper without leaving his own truck there.

Unless, as @Tortoise and others suggest, he got control of the trooper and drove to the McStay house in the trooper

 

[Tortoise]

Or Joey was driving and couldn't answer? Or didn't hear his phone?

I miss calls from my home many times just walking round the supermarket when the kids call me to add something to the shopping list.

Just to explain, my point wasn't that he didn't answer, it was that the call was made from the landline so I think there was a problem at home, meaning Summer was separated from her cell phone and either tried to make a call to him from the landline or possibly told Gianni the numbers to dial if she was restrained.

It comes back to me thinking she was tied up with the blue painters tape. I think it's strange because she was using her cell phone earlier and also Joey's Voicemail was checked two minutes later - so if Merritt had the phone he may have been listening to see if the message said anything about calling the police.

I like the theory he loosened a fence panel that he could come back to without being observed by neighbors and so I think he was outside for a while and that could be when she tried to call Joey but he caught her.

If that is him leaving the house and then a cheque was printed 9 minutes later he had a reason for not printing the cheque while his truck may have been picked up by neighbors' surveillance cameras or seen by neighbors arriving and/or parked outside. The truck was backed into the drive because it emerges headlights first, so in the dark and close up to the house he could load their bodies into the back without being seen but he knew once he started the engine up and put the headlights he may be observed driving away. Maybe he even purposely made the loud noise that Mitchley heard when she put her porch light on, so that neighbors would observe him leaving. It was only moments before the truck left and I doubt it was screams because I think she would have remembered wondering whether to call 911, plus I think they were already dead by that time and loaded in the truck.

I think he opened the office window before leaving, then drove around the corner into Avocado Vista, parked up by the entrance to the vacant plot of land that runs behind the rear fences of Avocado Vista Lane homes, and walked back to the fence he had loosened for entry. The timing seems perfect for that.

Images - click to enlarge.

1. The parking spot and the house marked on map.
2. The entrance to the vacant plot of land in Avocado Vista.



It means he was at the house from around 4.20 until 7.47, which is 3 and a half hours. Time to restrain Summer, maybe to get passwords from her, possibly with the idea of raping her before he killed her, mess around with the fence, sort out the dogs with food to keep them quiet, give the children popcorn to keep them quiet, poke around in the office for stuff he might have wanted on the computer or in paperwork, rape Summer, kill her and the children, clean up, paint a bit, waiting for dark at 6.47 pm to load their bodies in the truck, check the house over a bit more, find something to wrap up Joey's body with when he got back to him because he wouldn't want his blood in his truck, and go. I think he wanted to torture Summer before he killed her. I also think they were all dead in the truck because he wouldn't leave them alone to make noise if he was going back to the house, and the child backpack was just something Joey put on to comfort himself or because it was another thing he told him to do to keep him occupied, he did want it to appear that the family left on a trip. I think he took the car seats from the Dodge.

 

[Tortoise]

Unless, as @Tortoise and others suggest, he got control of the trooper and drove to the McStay house in the trooper

The police don't think it was the Trooper that was captured on the video, so it seems likely Joey was left somewhere else with the Trooper.

 

[Tortoise]

Then there are the toys to consider. Summer searched up the toys at 3.52 pm and there were toys found in the back of the Trooper, if they are the same toys. Could Merritt have stopped to collect the toys after seeing the details on the computer, knowing she's made an arrangement for either herself or Joey to collect them and it would look like something happened to her if they weren't collected?

 

[Tortoise]

I guess I just don't see the need for more complex theories, which involve extra people in the murder and extra vehicles which he would have to come up with on the spot.

For me the simplest explanation is he went over there, murdered them, and probably left them there, including the trooper.

IMO he then thought about it, and went back the next day and began the staging.

What i don't know is how he moved the trooper and his own truck without help.

The other thing is at 9.30pm Chase calls his lady after being dark for 4 hrs

So IMO he must have had this phone the whole time.

If he didn't, why turn it off? Just leave it on at his home all nite.

Well I think there is a need for a complex theory to account for the evidence as well as how he could have done it.

We can say it's simpler that they each had their own phones, because it is simpler, but then he couldn't have been at the house before 7 pm if he was with his phone elsewhere. Logic tells us he was at the house because of the printed cheque and the truck is only captured leaving at 7.47 pm, but not arriving between 7 pm and 7.47 pm. Even if the video times are wrong it is still a piece of uninterrupted video for an hour with the truck not arriving but leaving. As well there is Mitchley's evidence that she goes to bed around 8 pm, and she would probably have remembered waking up and getting out of bed because she heard a disturbance, if it happened much later, when the police visited her close to the time it happened.

I think him calling Cathy Jarvis at around 9.30 pm is when he would have got back to wherever he put his phone, not far from wherever he had left Joey's body.

I also think it makes sense that he would borrow a truck because he knew his truck would be checked over. I have read somewhere that his brother had trucks but I can't confirm that.

 

[Tortoise]

Also it doesn't make much sense that when Summer called Joey from the landline Joey's cellphone was in Fallbrook. Why would she call him if he was in the same house? Why would he listen to the Voicemail 2 minutes later but not call her back or text a reply?

 

[Funky funky]

Then there are the toys to consider. Summer searched up the toys at 3.52 pm and there were toys found in the back of the Trooper, if they are the same toys. Could Merritt have stopped to collect the toys after seeing the details on the computer, knowing she's made an arrangement for either herself or Joey to collect them and it would look like something happened to her if they weren't collected?

Surely a witness would’ve come forward by now if that was the case?

 

[Tortoise]

Surely a witness would’ve come forward by now if that was the case?

I think the toys are one aspect the San Diego police could have followed up if they were trying to piece together a timeline for their last day, so I hope they did and they have the seller as a witness in the case, or at least a police statement made at the time.

 

[asyousay]

Does anybody please have the link to all the phone messages that Joey made and received that day?

Also do we have Chases I can’t reminder now?

 

[Tortoise]

I've been going from this thread asyousay but I do find it hard to follow. I don't know if there is another one.

https://www.websleuths.com/forums/threads/mcstay-family-comprehensive-timeline.285143/#post-14733757

 

[asyousay]

2/4/2010 Pomona, CA 12:28 PM CM 909-374 6 min- Joey then calls Chase twice at 12:28 and again at 12:52. There is a 1 minute incoming from Chase at 1:01. LeoMoon80: Joe M. calls Pomono California 12:28PM (or it pings there) This call to CM lasted 6 minutes, a rather long time as you will see for the rest of the calls back and forth. Sounds like he must have read him the riot act after speaking earlier to his bank at 12:15PM.
2/4/2010 Hopewell, VA 12:52 PM 804-541 8
2/4/2010 Pomona, CA 12:52 PM CM 909-374 1 min
1pm - Joey called his Union Bank. The same bank where CM had cashed the $2,495 check two days earlier. IMO, this is when JM first found out Chase had cashed the fraudulent check. This also would be around the time of the lunch meeting in Rancho Cucamonga.

2/4/2010 Incoming 1:01 PM CM 909-374 1min -
Joey calls no one between that time and 3:03, (possibly the lunch or whatever meeting)
3:03pm - call to CM 1 min
3:32pm - call to CM 2 min
4:18pm - call to CM 3 min

It’s reasons like this that make me question Chase was at lunch with Joey.

Why on earth does Joey have a 2 hour lunch with Chase that ends at 3pm and then call him at 3.03pm? This was a 2 hour lunch let’s not forget.

Also why would Joey read Chase the riot act at 12.53 when he was going to see him 5 minutes later? It doesn’t make sense- who does that?!

 

[oceanblueeyes]

Please forgive my ignorance about this subject but I still dont quite understand the particulars on the SA project.

So after Joey and his family went missing his company was able to complete the SA project along with CM?

It was a million dollar project, right? How long afterwards did it take to fully complete? Did anyone from SA ever comment on Merritt when he was supposedly there working?

Did the homicide investigators ever speak with anyone from SA?

So who got all of this money? Did it go to Joey's living son?

Sorry for all the questions.

Tia

 

[Tortoise]

It’s reasons like this that make me question Chase was at lunch with Joey.

Why on earth does Joey have a 2 hour lunch with Chase that ends at 3pm and then call him at 3.03pm? This was a 2 hour lunch let’s not forget.

Also why would Joey read Chase the riot act at 12.53 when he was going to see him 5 minutes later? It doesn’t make sense- who does that?!

We've also got this info in the Opening Statements:

He arrives in the Rancho Cucamonga area and his cell phone is communicating with towers in the Rancho Cucamonga area – at 12.52 there’s a call to the defendant, at 1.01 there’s another call to the defendant and at 3.03 is the last time that his phone makes contact with that tower in Rancho Cucamonga.

This was the day of the meeting at Chick-fil-A, Chick-fil-A is in that general area, however Joseph’s internet access during that two hour period is almost constant – internet access on his phone.

After the 12.52 phone call to the defendant, between 12.52 and 1.01, there are 13 frantic phone calls, primarily from the defendant to his, who he called his wife, who was actually his girlfriend Catherine Jarvis, she lived with him there in Rancho Cucamonga. And if you’ll notice there’s a call at 12.52, 12.54 another one at 12.54, 12.55, 12.56, 12.57 another one at 12.57, 12.58, 12.59, finally she calls him back at 1.00, that’s all in a period of nine minutes.

 

[asyousay]

Please forgive my ignorance about this subject but I still dont quite understand the particulars on the SA project.

So after Joey and his family went missing his company was able to complete the SA project along with CM?

It was a million dollar project, right? How long afterwards did it take to fully complete? Did anyone from SA ever comment on Merritt when he was supposedly there working?

Did the homicide investigators ever speak with anyone from SA?

So who got all of this money? Did it go to Joey's living son?

Sorry for all the questions.

Tia

The SA deal as far as I am aware was not the multi million pound contract. That was in the pipeline and that was a deal to install waterfalls around some company in the U.S I thought. But it’s been 8 years so I could be totally wrong.

 

[asyousay]

We've also got this info in the Opening Statements:

He arrives in the Rancho Cucamonga area and his cell phone is communicating with towers in the Rancho Cucamonga area – at 12.52 there’s a call to the defendant, at 1.01 there’s another call to the defendant and at 3.03 is the last time that his phone makes contact with that tower in Rancho Cucamonga.

This was the day of the meeting at Chick-fil-A, Chick-fil-A is in that general area, however Joseph’s internet access during that two hour period is almost constant – internet access on his phone.

After the 12.52 phone call to the defendant, between 12.52 and 1.01, there are 13 frantic phone calls, primarily from the defendant to his, who he called his wife, who was actually his girlfriend Catherine Jarvis, she lived with him there in Rancho Cucamonga. And if you’ll notice there’s a call at 12.52, 12.54 another one at 12.54, 12.55, 12.56, 12.57 another one at 12.57, 12.58, 12.59, finally she calls him back at 1.00, that’s all in a period of nine minutes.

Exactly the Lunch with them both together to me doesn’t add up in the slightest.

We have Joey who is obviously very angry at a Chase and we have Chase who is obviously frantic trying to come up with reasons to justify what he did.

So are we meant to believe they both then calmly sat down at lunch and nobody noticed loud angry voices and their behaviour? - I’m sorry with everything we know there is no way they both could calmly sit down at lunch and not have a massive argument.

My theory is Chase was meant to meet him for Lunch and he was a no show and so Joey got on with work (which explains why he was constantly active online) and decided to wait to see if he would turn up. Hence why at 3pm Joey leaves lunch and he calls Chase.

IMO

 

[Tortoise]

Why was he calling Cathy Jarvis so frantically? Was it to tell her not to let Joey into their home because he didn't want her to find out about the theft? Why meet at Chick-Fil-A when he has an apartment right there that they can meet - if it's going to take 2 hours to go over stuff?