CA - Joey, Summer, Gianni, Joseph Jr McStay Murders - Feb 4th 2010 #3

[missy1974]

Defense OS at 45:18 - 45:31 that JM was killed somewhere ELSE and brought to gravesite, due to being wrapped in something. 45:32 - 45:37 Defense states Summer and kids were killed AT the gravesite and also acknowledges that Summer was raped AT the gravesite, based on Summer's clothes half-in/half-out of the gravesite. "They were killed at separate time, brought in separate vehicles." Based on 2 separate tire tracks/widths, according to the Defense. Now he goes on to blame the Pros for a shoddy Inv.

One tiny tidbit about 50:00 - 50:14 Talking about CM "not knowing" the area of the gravesite or being familiar with Victorville. THIS will be a HUGE mistake for the Defense because CM GREW up and worked within MILES of their gravesites. That is fact.

BBM Actually I think it was directed at anyone but Chase, because he does know the area. Basically saying, he would have hid them better because he does know the area.


Also, Victorville grave sites, they say show that Chase was involved because he's the only one that knows Victorville, I'll tell ya, the place where it's located shows the person didn't know where they were. The grave sites, the first geographical location that's undeveloped north of Fallbrook following the 15 freeway. First one, you drive around like here's a spot let's just get off and get rid of these bodies, grave site are only a quarter mile off the freeway, quarter mile, and if you were truly familiar with the area, they would have known they could drive up a little bit further and gone in a secluded area.

There is more after that, trying to show how from Fallbrook north to Victorville, it is the first spot where this is an undeveloped area.

I've been trying to get those OS typed up, so had that

 

[HelenK]

Agreed - its absurd.

To me it is extremely strange that this case was assigned to a part-time judge. Even in the U.S.ofA. where crime rules supreme, the slaughter of an entire family, including tiny children, is not an every day occurrence.

 

[Force Ten]

I went and read that whole search warrant, I actually somewhat recall this. Awfully coincidental IMO So you think that the address was searched on the computer too? geesh, if they held this trial for more than 4.5 hours a day, 4 days a week, maybe we would know this info already

Per the warrant, it was searched on the home desktop. Now, we don't know the whole ins and outs of the investigation and I imagine there may have been more internet activity going on that we have yet to know about. I can't imagine it being the only activity. Maybe Joseph searched for the address before. So it also could be that Chase went into the browser history and clicked on it. However Joseph was familiar with that area, he would know at least where Fountain Valley was, unless he was planning on visiting the address himself.

The dental office bought or had a fountain installed on 1/12/09 per this spreadsheet. Also fountain in the front lobby. Considering Chase's shoddy workmanship, this fountain probably had issues and I imagine the owner emailed JM in late January 2010 about it. JM then calls the owner upon reading. Then calls Chase. IMO opinion, there has to be a correlation to this address search on the 8th, the very same day the Trooper has been disposed of. I don't recall Chase's activity on the 9th but I wonder if he may have paid a visit to Orange County that day.

I feel that this address search is key to nailing Merritt to the murders.

 

[Force Ten]

Is anyone good at maps? I would like to see the timeline as we know it and a map of CM and JM’s phone pings as relating to the alleged CFA meeting, the course of that day and the following days; with particular interest in the following 10 days or so, possibly even the few days before. It might be beneficial if someone could include the McStay home, CM’s residence, CFA,
CM’s sister’s home, the Trooper drop off point, as well as the address googled on the McStay computer and the storage unit. Any suggestions on other plots would be helpful. We used to have Bondjamesbond to manage these things and I wish he was still here. Anyone willing to look at addresses and submit too?
This is not my forte and I would screw it up!
It we could plot the pings with the dates and times I think it might be beneficial to all of us! TIA

I don't really care for Gray Hughes' channel but he did produce these outstanding videos cataloguing a timeline of events.

 

[MsFacetious]

I see Merritt’s expression as “no no no that’s not what happened!” He’s frustrated they are getting it wrong? Angry almost. IMO.

This would be me if I was a homicidal maniac. I would likely end up confessing because I was so pissed off they had it all wrong. "No, I'm not stupid enough to do THAT, I did THIS."

Some time back, many months ago, I did extensive research on this address. Per the warrant the is a T-Mobil at that location. There are also a few other businesses. One of those, a dental office, is also in the warrants. This office was determined to been a client of EIP. Accordingly LE ruled out that the address search on the computer had anything to do with this client, but probably more to do with the search. I think in the warrant it states they contacted the client. They concluded it was probably about T-Mobil.

I wasn't buying that contention. If Chase (or whoever) wanted to visit one, there were dozens closer. It wouldn't make sense to go to that one almost 2 hours away. The number to the dental office was called from Joseph's phone 2 weeks before the disappearance. Joseph next calls Chase, twice.

Chase could have looked up the address for T-Mobil from anywhere. There is a reason he did so from the house. I feel he may have seen it on some letterhead or spreadsheet in the home.

If it wasn't Chase or Joseph doing the search, who was it?

Perhaps Chase went to THAT T-mobile precisely because it WAS 2 hours away? Maybe he was concerned he would be recognized as not being Joey if he went to one closer? It is also possible it was the dental office as well.

 

[MsFacetious]

Maline has been late 3 times as I understand it. Terrible attitude. And I don't like him.

I can not even comprehend the lackadaisical attitude towards this trial. It is seriously pissing me off!

I know that California courts are just as clogged up as everywhere else, if not more. This is wasting unbelievable amounts of time! I know some judges work limited hours due to budget, but it seems it would be cheaper to shorten the trial by working a full 5 days. I know sometimes there aren't enough courtrooms, so maybe they go with the judges 4 day work week to give day 5 to other cases with a different judge?

The judge, wow. Even aside from only working a few hours a day and taking huge lunches which is bad enough. If a defense attorney was late 3 TIMES for a TRIAL the judges I'm familiar with would hold them in contempt. The judge would also likely make Nancy Grace look gentle with the open court dressing down!

I watched a judge rip apart a prosecutor at an evidentiary hearing because he was taking too long to get to the evidence! She had asked him to get to the evidence 3 times since the hearing started at 9am and he continued to "lead up" to the evidence. She finally just ruled for the other side at 2pm saying there obviously was not evidence to present.

Never mind that it's a DEATH PENALTY trial and the defendant is HIS CLIENT. The judge should be bringing the hammer down on this guy to avoid appeals later. It would be easy to argue that an attorney who can't even be bothered to show up on time, may not have been the most effective counsel.

I watched a judge dress down a defense attorney for not having witnesses at a hearing (where witnesses were not supposed to be called!) She rescheduled the hearing for a later date to avoid a claim of ineffective assistance of counsel.

Then there is the jury. How do they feel about how casually their time is treated? They are coming there to do their civic duty, away from their family for MONTHS... when that time could be cut in half by running an efficient courtroom. It's absolutely mind blowing to me and I wouldn't be surprised if we hear questions about it later.

Of course, then we have 4 brutally murdered people who are supposed to be getting a voice through this trial. Are they so unimportant that you can't take a 30 minute lunch? That you can't work on Friday? That you can't get your poop in one place and have your witnesses ready? Yes you may subpoena them and they may sit at the courthouse all day. You try to avoid that when you can, but your FIRST priority is HAVING THE WITNESSES THERE!

Maybe I just have an especially efficient group of judges and attorneys I deal with. Because NONE of this would fly with any of them, ever. Even the ones that I'm not fond of and think are dirty.

In fact we've been specifically warned about these things. No long lunches, have your witnesses in the hallway ready to go, subpoena them ALL because we WILL NOT sit around waiting for witnesses, we will not have a 10 day trial which could be done in 5 days.

I've heard all of these things from judges and I've NEVER seen anything like this trial.

 

[mrjitty]

Per the warrant, it was searched on the home desktop. Now, we don't know the whole ins and outs of the investigation and I imagine there may have been more internet activity going on that we have yet to know about. I can't imagine it being the only activity. Maybe Joseph searched for the address before. So it also could be that Chase went into the browser history and clicked on it. However Joseph was familiar with that area, he would know at least where Fountain Valley was, unless he was planning on visiting the address himself.

The dental office bought or had a fountain installed on 1/12/09 per this spreadsheet. Also fountain in the front lobby. Considering Chase's shoddy workmanship, this fountain probably had issues and I imagine the owner emailed JM in late January 2010 about it. JM then calls the owner upon reading. Then calls Chase. IMO opinion, there has to be a correlation to this address search on the 8th, the very same day the Trooper has been disposed of. I don't recall Chase's activity on the 9th but I wonder if he may have paid a visit to Orange County that day.

I feel that this address search is key to nailing Merritt to the murders.

I see the existence of the search to be much more critical than working out exactly why it was searched because once more it reveals the hand of the murderer.

8 Feb is 4 full days after the murderers and the day the Trooper will be discovered. Only the murderer can realistically have made this search (unless we want to believe now a 2nd person breaks in and starts using murdered Joey's computer after his death).

If the house is not the crime scene, why is the killer going there after the trooper is dumped and presumably bodies buried?

And it appears to be a search directly linked to a search Joey made 2 weeks before. Why is the killer showing such an interest in Joey's affairs? IMO especially damning in the context of the Quickbooks activity because once more it places Chase in the house if we assume Quickbooks and the search are done by the same person.

And we know Chase admitted to going by the house

 

[Paulette]

So one leg was "bunched up". I missed that but it's interesting and it fits in with my theory. We have to look at the totality of Summer, her bludgeoning and after death. In the photo these pants appear to be the front portion? And the bra cup was with the paint drip was the right? Chase is left handed so he would have struck Summer in the right side portion of her head causing her to fall on her left side as he continued to bash her face and skull in. When you expire your bowels release everything because the heart controls those organs. So naturally her bladder would empty and gravity takes it's course, running down the left side of her inner thigh and eventually soaking her left pant leg. Chase sees this as it puddles and realizes this is a problem. He pulls off the left side first from the pant cuff, then the left starting at the waist because he thinks maybe that's easier. This would cause the bunching up. At some point after this, Chase begins to clean and then paint.

It's hard for me to accept the bleaching theory because of the pattern. Is the prosecution proposing that Chase simply poured bleach on the pants while bunched up? Wouldn't it be more effective if he put them in a bucket of bleach? Wouldn't it permeate throughout the pants?

Something else that has always bothered me was the presence of Lil' Joseph's backpack. It has been long believed by many that the family was killed while Summer may have been bathing the children. Maybe they were 'interrupted' during but I don't know about being killed. The backpack should not be in the grave if we go with the state's narrative that the family was killed in the home. It's so out of place. The backpack presents a sort of story. Most of my kids when they were Joseph and Gianni's age had their favorites. Most of the time, for the life of me, I could not figure out the fondness of particular items they became attached to, but they did. Those items went everywhere we went. And different ages had different things. But they had to have them every time we went somewhere. Every damn time.

I know this fact because I have little ones who were the same ages as Joseph and Gianni - Dora the Explorer (and her backpack) were hugely popular at the time of the disappearance. I don't believe those boys (at least) left that home deceased.

That's an excellent point about the backpack, it is so out of place in the grave. What would induce him to take it with? I can only think it was attached to the child - he was wearing it. Good grief, those poor people suffered horrendously.

 

[mrjitty]

I can not even comprehend the lackadaisical attitude towards this trial. It is seriously pissing me off!

I know that California courts are just as clogged up as everywhere else, if not more. This is wasting unbelievable amounts of time! I know some judges work limited hours due to budget, but it seems it would be cheaper to shorten the trial by working a full 5 days. I know sometimes there aren't enough courtrooms, so maybe they go with the judges 4 day work week to give day 5 to other cases with a different judge?

The judge, wow. Even aside from only working a few hours a day and taking huge lunches which is bad enough. If a defense attorney was late 3 TIMES for a TRIAL the judges I'm familiar with would hold them in contempt. The judge would also likely make Nancy Grace look gentle with the open court dressing down!

I watched a judge rip apart a prosecutor at an evidentiary hearing because he was taking too long to get to the evidence! She had asked him to get to the evidence 3 times since the hearing started at 9am and he continued to "lead up" to the evidence. She finally just ruled for the other side at 2pm saying there obviously was not evidence to present.

Never mind that it's a DEATH PENALTY trial and the defendant is HIS CLIENT. The judge should be bringing the hammer down on this guy to avoid appeals later. It would be easy to argue that an attorney who can't even be bothered to show up on time, may not have been the most effective counsel.

I watched a judge dress down a defense attorney for not having witnesses at a hearing (where witnesses were not supposed to be called!) She rescheduled the hearing for a later date to avoid a claim of ineffective assistance of counsel.

Then there is the jury. How do they feel about how casually their time is treated? They are coming there to do their civic duty, away from their family for MONTHS... when that time could be cut in half by running an efficient courtroom. It's absolutely mind blowing to me and I wouldn't be surprised if we hear questions about it later.

Of course, then we have 4 brutally murdered people who are supposed to be getting a voice through this trial. Are they so unimportant that you can't take a 30 minute lunch? That you can't work on Friday? That you can't get your poop in one place and have your witnesses ready? Yes you may subpoena them and they may sit at the courthouse all day. You try to avoid that when you can, but your FIRST priority is HAVING THE WITNESSES THERE!

Maybe I just have an especially efficient group of judges and attorneys I deal with. Because NONE of this would fly with any of them, ever. Even the ones that I'm not fond of and think are dirty.

In fact we've been specifically warned about these things. No long lunches, have your witnesses in the hallway ready to go, subpoena them ALL because we WILL NOT sit around waiting for witnesses, we will not have a 10 day trial which could be done in 5 days.

I've heard all of these things from judges and I've NEVER seen anything like this trial.

Agreed.

This would never happen in NZ. Especially a High Court Judge would never allow so much poor quality X

 

[mrjitty]

That's an excellent point about the backpack, it is so out of place in the grave. What would induce him to take it with? I can only think it was attached to the child - he was wearing it. Good grief, those poor people suffered horrendously.

Yeah - its just like the bathrobe. How did that end up in there? But it makes sense for that time of night.

 

[mrjitty]

BBM Actually I think it was directed at anyone but Chase, because he does know the area. Basically saying, he would have hid them better because he does know the area.


Also, Victorville grave sites, they say show that Chase was involved because he's the only one that knows Victorville, I'll tell ya, the place where it's located shows the person didn't know where they were. The grave sites, the first geographical location that's undeveloped north of Fallbrook following the 15 freeway. First one, you drive around like here's a spot let's just get off and get rid of these bodies, grave site are only a quarter mile off the freeway, quarter mile, and if you were truly familiar with the area, they would have known they could drive up a little bit further and gone in a secluded area.

There is more after that, trying to show how from Fallbrook north to Victorville, it is the first spot where this is an undeveloped area.

I've been trying to get those OS typed up, so had that

I think the defense argument only makes sense at first blush, and to those without 4x4 experience.

When you actually look at it closely, a vehicle out down that rough road is not going to attract any real attention from vehicles travelling at speed on the main road, if they even notice it - and this was probably in the early hours of the morning.

On the other hand, driving far out into the desert on your own with soft conditions risks getting stuck, even in a 4x4 - especially if you go off road.

Chase knew full well that locating the graves just off that access road is perfectly as good as further far out in the desert. And so it proved to be. And this had the advantage of using an established unimproved road, within minimal off road.

Even still, it seems he came close to getting axle deep

His only mistake was burying too shallow - but it seems likely that it would not be easy to penetrate the ground that deeply on your own by hand

 

[Niner]

Monday, January 28th:
*Trial continues (Day 12) (@ 9:30am PT) - CA - McStay Family: Joseph (40), Summer (43), Gianni (4) & Joey Jr (3) (Feb. 4, 2010, Fallbrook; found Nov. 11, 2013) - *Charles "Chase" Ray Merritt (57/now 60) arrested (11/5/14) & indicted (11/7/14) of 4 counts of murder with special circumstance; plead not guilty. DP case.
12 jurors & 6 alternates were finalized on Tuesday (12/11/18). 8 women & 4 men, while the alternates include 4 men & 2 women. Trial started 1/7/19.
Skipping Day 1 thru 6 – reference post #1180 here: CA - Joey, Summer, Gianni, Joseph Jr McStay Murders - Feb 4th 2010 #2
1/16/19 Day 7: State witnesses: Det. Troy DuGal. Denys Williams, a forensic evidence technician for San Diego County, now retired, since 2014. Trial continues on 1/17.
1/17/19 Day 8: State witnesses: Denys Williams, retired evidence technician with San Diego Co. She took photos inside the McStay home. Joe Sequeida, employee from Metro Sheet Metal. Dark on Fridays, continues on Tuesday, 1/22, as Monday the 21st is a holiday.
1/22/19 Day 9: State witnesses: Joe Sequeida, from Metro Sheet Metal. John Bluth, is the motorcycle rider that found the human skull and called police. Sgt. Gary Hart. is with the San Bernadino Sheriff's dept. At the time of this investigation he was a detective. After jurors released for break, one atty (Maline) was scolded by judge for being 20 min late to court for third time. Sgt. Armando Avila (subject to recall), was a detective in the homicide for San Bernardino County at the time the remains were found. Trial continues on 1/23 and will be from 9:30am to 12:30pm.
1/23/19 Day 10: State witnesses: Dr. Alexis Grey, forensic anthropologist. The state will now play the police interrogation video of Merritt of 2/17/10 (DuGal's interview). Trial continues on 1/24.
1/24/19 Day 11: Judge announces there will be no court on Monday, Feb 4 & possible late start on Feb 5. They are back to playing the Audi interview of CM, on Feb 17th. State witnesses: Heatherly Radeleff, San Bernardino Sheriff's Lead Crime Scene Specialist. Det. Edward Bachman, lead investigator San Bernardino County. Trial dark on Fridays, trial continues on 1/28.

 

[mrjitty]

I don't think so, it was towed around 11 pm on the night of the 8th, and I believe the implication is he drove it there that morning when his phone was off.

Agreed - IIRC the evidence was that it could have been dumped anytime from the early hours of the 8th - so that would be still night (winter).

I think he buried the bodies very early on the 6th. Finished his staging at the house and then the last step was to drive the trooper from the house to the parking lot.

He went back to the house on the 8th (google search) - and then begins his attempts to get others to "discover" the McStays are missing

 

[mrjitty]

That is a lot to do on the 8th then, taking the Trooper to the border in the am and accessing QuickBooks in the pm - not from the home computer.

I think he was at the house on the 8th (search), and drives the trooper from the house to the border.

It's the last step in the staging.

Over the weekend he has disposed of the bodies and finished the clean up. he also needed to keep feeding the dogs over this period.

 

[KALI]

Most excellent post. Thank you!!!

I can not even comprehend the lackadaisical attitude towards this trial. It is seriously pissing me off!

I know that California courts are just as clogged up as everywhere else, if not more. This is wasting unbelievable amounts of time! I know some judges work limited hours due to budget, but it seems it would be cheaper to shorten the trial by working a full 5 days. I know sometimes there aren't enough courtrooms, so maybe they go with the judges 4 day work week to give day 5 to other cases with a different judge?

The judge, wow. Even aside from only working a few hours a day and taking huge lunches which is bad enough. If a defense attorney was late 3 TIMES for a TRIAL the judges I'm familiar with would hold them in contempt. The judge would also likely make Nancy Grace look gentle with the open court dressing down!

I watched a judge rip apart a prosecutor at an evidentiary hearing because he was taking too long to get to the evidence! She had asked him to get to the evidence 3 times since the hearing started at 9am and he continued to "lead up" to the evidence. She finally just ruled for the other side at 2pm saying there obviously was not evidence to present.

Never mind that it's a DEATH PENALTY trial and the defendant is HIS CLIENT. The judge should be bringing the hammer down on this guy to avoid appeals later. It would be easy to argue that an attorney who can't even be bothered to show up on time, may not have been the most effective counsel.

I watched a judge dress down a defense attorney for not having witnesses at a hearing (where witnesses were not supposed to be called!) She rescheduled the hearing for a later date to avoid a claim of ineffective assistance of counsel.

Then there is the jury. How do they feel about how casually their time is treated? They are coming there to do their civic duty, away from their family for MONTHS... when that time could be cut in half by running an efficient courtroom. It's absolutely mind blowing to me and I wouldn't be surprised if we hear questions about it later.

Of course, then we have 4 brutally murdered people who are supposed to be getting a voice through this trial. Are they so unimportant that you can't take a 30 minute lunch? That you can't work on Friday? That you can't get your poop in one place and have your witnesses ready? Yes you may subpoena them and they may sit at the courthouse all day. You try to avoid that when you can, but your FIRST priority is HAVING THE WITNESSES THERE!

Maybe I just have an especially efficient group of judges and attorneys I deal with. Because NONE of this would fly with any of them, ever. Even the ones that I'm not fond of and think are dirty.

In fact we've been specifically warned about these things. No long lunches, have your witnesses in the hallway ready to go, subpoena them ALL because we WILL NOT sit around waiting for witnesses, we will not have a 10 day trial which could be done in 5 days.

I've heard all of these things from judges and I've NEVER seen anything like this trial.

 

[Niner]

Then there is the jury. How do they feel about how casually their time is treated? They are coming there to do their civic duty, away from their family for MONTHS...

Is the jurors sequestered? I thought they weren't....

And the place where he buried the bodies. Isn't it a place where no people are supposed to be? Are there signs out there? Maybe he thought no one would come around that area?
Just a thought!

 

[oceanblueeyes]

Is the jurors sequestered? I thought they weren't....

And the place where he buried the bodies. Isn't it a place where no people are supposed to be? Are there signs out there? Maybe he thought no one would come around that area?
Just a thought!

Good point.

I have to chuckle at the times I've heard the defense attorneys say if their client was the true killer they would have done a better job. The accused all of a sudden become brainiacs (after the fact of course) according to their defense attorneys.

Well in this case the bodies weren't found until years later. So I think its obvious CM did do a pretty good job in the murders, coverup, and concealing the bodies.

I do believe you are correct Niner. I dont think offroad bikes were supposed to be riding in that area.

Imo

 

[mrjitty]

Good point.

I have to chuckle at the times I've heard the defense attorneys say if their client was the true killer they would have done a better job. The accused all of a sudden become brainiacs (after the fact of course) according to their defense attorneys.

Well in this case the bodies weren't found until years later. So I think its obvious CM did do a pretty good job in the murders, coverup, and concealing the bodies.

I do believe you are correct Niner. I dont think offroad bikes were supposed to be riding in that area.

Imo

Often in these cases you get both the suggestion that the defendant should be rewarded for doing such a great job of destroying evidence as well as contradictory claims he'd have done the murder in a more braniac way to destroy the evidence

yet this guy rings quickbooks from his own mobile trying to destroy evidence

 

[oceanblueeyes]

BBM Actually I think it was directed at anyone but Chase, because he does know the area. Basically saying, he would have hid them better because he does know the area.


Also, Victorville grave sites, they say show that Chase was involved because he's the only one that knows Victorville, I'll tell ya, the place where it's located shows the person didn't know where they were. The grave sites, the first geographical location that's undeveloped north of Fallbrook following the 15 freeway. First one, you drive around like here's a spot let's just get off and get rid of these bodies, grave site are only a quarter mile off the freeway, quarter mile, and if you were truly familiar with the area, they would have known they could drive up a little bit further and gone in a secluded area.

There is more after that, trying to show how from Fallbrook north to Victorville, it is the first spot where this is an undeveloped area.

I've been trying to get those OS typed up, so had that

Morning Missy!

All of that reminds of the FBI profilers that say murderers tend to disregard the bodies of their victims in areas they are familiar with.

They put them in what the profilers call 'their comfort zones.'

Imo

 

[Tortoise]

How coincidental is it that Ms Mitchley's surveillance cameras stopped recording between the 5th and the 14th?! Police went to her on the 15th asking about her cameras.

With his history of house-breaking I'm very tempted to think it was his doing. And if it was his doing and he didn't erase the 4th, I'm tempted to think that he wanted the footage left on there of him leaving before the QuickBooks was accessed on 4th, and that he made a loud noise when he was leaving purposely. Surely it must have crossed his mind in the days following the murders that he might be on surveillance cameras and to make it one of his priorities when he went back there to feed the dogs to check for cameras.