CA - Joey, Summer, Gianni, Joseph Jr McStay Murders - Feb 4th 2010 #5

[HelenK]

Do you have any worthwhile content to contribute? Any plausible theory or counter rebuttal? You continue to attack and ridicule people's posts and opinions relating to evidence, yet offer nothing to the conversation.

Right on, Force.

 

[HelenK]

It wasn’t just CM who said JM was having health problems.

Snip
His mother was not available to speak to MailOnline about Merritt's latest revelations. Neither was Joseph's brother, Michael.

But speaking on CNN in 2010 he said: 'My understanding was in the last year he’d been having these vertigo type symptoms. He was in the hospital for a couple of weeks, and on the (February) 4, he was talking to my mother and he had to pull over when he was driving home because he felt vertigo type symptoms.' Snip BBM

Joseph McStay feared wife was POISONING him before they disappeared claims book | Daily Mail Online

It was later verified that he'd been in the hospital over a weekend, not for a couple of weeks.

 

[Deleted member 192280]

I am very familiar with that article. I daresay we all are. Merritt extoles Joseph to the sky, while thoroughly trashing Summer. Goes on and on about the purportedly "close" personal relationship he had with Joey. Makes sure he throws in what he was told was the inconclusive lie detector test that he took voluntarily. Says he just wants to find the culprits "who did this." Not once does he categorically state, "I am innocent of any wrongdoing."

‘Nine out of ten people on this planet have got some kind of criminal background." What?? Maybe in the circles you run with, Mr. Merritt. "I got into trouble once or twice when I was a kid." What?

Charles Merritt is a con man extraordinaire.

Which part shows he murdered the McStay family?

 

[Deleted member 192280]

Do you have any worthwhile content to contribute? Any plausible theory or counter rebuttal? You continue to attack and ridicule people's posts and opinions relating to evidence, yet offer nothing to the conversation.

Right on, Force.

1. I don't have confirmation bias to offer.
2. I was talking to Edmo.
3. Edmo liked my comment.
4. Edmo and I had good humored exchange.
5. "Attack"? Hallucination?

 

[MsFacetious]

Right on, Force.

There's an ignore feature for a reason. Scroll and roll....

 

[Bernina]

State of California VS Charles Ray Merritt: Part Four - Transcript of Charles Merritt Preliminary

5 Q At some point did you have occasion to interview a
6 Katherine Jarvis?
7 A I did.
8 Q And who is that?
9 A That would be what I talked about earlier. That was
10 Mr. Merritt's former girlfriend. It's his children's mother.
11 Q Did you ask Miss Jarvis regarding whether or not the
12 defendant received a phone call from Joseph McStay, Sr., after
13 he had returned home on February 4th, 2010?
14 A I did.
15 Q And what did she explain to you?
16 A Her initial statement was she recalled the night of
17 February 4th after he returned home, that they were standing
18 around the bar area of their apartment. She described
19 Mr. Merritt's phone as lying face up on the counter. And his
20 phone rang and she could see Joseph's name pop up on the
21 display.
22 She said that she asked Mr. Merritt if he was going to
23 answer the phone. And he said, no, and he wasn't going to. He
24 had already talked to Joseph that day and he didn't want to
25 answer it.
26 She thought it was odd that he didn't want to answer it
27 and he let it ring all the way out until it went to voice mail.
28 Q Why did you say that was her initial story?
139
1 A She changed it. Later, she changed her statement, when
2 she was confronted with cell phone records to show there was
3 never a phone call received on Mr. Merritt's phone from Joseph
4 McStay, Sr., that night.
5 Q What was her response at that point, when she was
6 confronted with the phone record?
7 A That she was mistaken. And she remembered the phone call
8 happening that way, but it was possibly a different night.
9 Q Did you ask Miss Jarvis about whether or not the
10 defendant frequented the High Desert around February 4th, 2010?
11 A I did.
12 Q And what was her response to you?
13 A To her knowledge, he did not.
14 Q Did you ask Miss Jarvis whether or not the defendant was
15 a person that was typically hard to get ahold of via cell phone?
16 A She said that sometimes he was hard to get ahold of.
17 That he would go to the casino, it could be for up to a couple
18 of days at a time, and if he was at a table, he typically
19 wouldn't answer his phone.
20 Q Was it -- did you ask her whether or not it was his habit
21 or common behavior to turn off his cell phone for long periods
22 of time?
23 A She said it was not. He did not shut his phone off.
24 Q Did you ask Miss Jarvis whether or not she urged the
25 defendant to make a report about the McStays being missing?
26 A I did.
27 Q And what was her response? What did she tell you?
28 A She did say she urged Mr. Merritt to contact law
140
1 enforcement and report the McStays missing.
2 Q Was there a response from him after she urged him to,
3 according to her?
4 A He did not want to get involved.

 

[fridaybaker]

That's a big dead zone IMO. And you are talking more recently, right? 9 years ago, did they have as many towers? or were the towers they did have as good as 2019 technology?

I live in the prairies in Canada, Saskatchewan, lots of wide open spaces. We have dead zones and some area's have never improved, but most have over the years. The dead zones are usually a minute or two while travelling. It surprises me that populated area's like that have such large dead zones!

Missy, is that because you live in the "prairies in Canada, Saskatchewan with lots of wide open spaces" and the area we're talking about is hilly? I have no idea if the area we're talking about is hilly, but I thought I've heard it is -I should go back some and do some looking. Anyway, wondering if that's the reason for long "dead zones"?

Also, I have in the back of my mind somewhere that Saskatchewan is very beautiful. Is it true? (Actually, I have in my mind something along the lines of "wild and beautiful". I'm not sure if that's the romantic in me, but it's what I think of when I hear "Saskatchewan".)

Sorry - I didn't read ahead. Now I know: Hilly!

 

[Edmo]

My one "claim to fame" is that I ACTUALLY dealt with 2 of America's Most Wanted Inmates while working in the county system that they were charged with. BOTH ended up on Death Row, due to their convictions.

One Inmate attempted in court to say that the DP was 1 Racial, and 2 Inhumane vs their crimes. They actually brought a "white supremacist" to testify in their behalf, they were both African American Inmates, that "Prison" was a "racially divided institution," and that their "punishment" was unlawful, due to it being "racial."

One is on DR today and the "other" was released last year due to the: Battered Wife Syndrom.

**** I forgot to mention **** This happened during the time Jimmy Swaggart (TV Preacher) was caught with a prostitute in Ca. !!!!!!!

 

[jash]

No but McGyver did testify Joseph parked on the street to allow Summer easier access for the kids.

Are you sure it was McGyver? I just did a search of the youtube transcripts and don't see that. Skimmed through his testimony, still can't find it lol

He was only there for those 3 or 4 days that week, and I think another day around xmas.

It was CM who said it (during a police interview). Tortoise was kind enough to transcribe the opening statements where it was covered:
CA - Joey, Summer, Gianni, Joseph Jr McStay Murders - Feb 4th 2010

They asked about those vehicles that I showed you earlier, the green Dodge and the white Trooper, where they were typically parked;

Do you know where… park the car the white SUV? [some parts inaudible]

Directly in front of the house on the street. She always parked the truck in the driveway. She didn’t like him parking the white car next to it because she couldn’t get the kids in or out.

 

[katydid23]

Which part shows he murdered the McStay family?

"Cohen said he also established a shared bank account, putting up $10,000 for materials.

But the money started to disappear, and the projects rarely came to completion.

“He wouldn’t do the work. He wouldn’t fill the orders. … It was always excuses, ‘the sun’s in my eyes,’” Cohen said.

By August 2013, Cohen had enough of a man he said he came to completely distrust. He ended their business dealings."



This ^^ part shows the same pattern that the State describes, that created conflict between him and Joey.


“I commissioned a few steel sculptures from Charles,” Adepoju said. “Next thing I know, I was his piggy-bank and he owed me over $4,000. I’m glad that we did not follow though with the registration of our business.“
Despite Merritt referring to Adepoju’s Hesperia office as “his office,” Adepoju said the cowboy hat-wearing metal worker only came Adepoju’s office when he needed money. After Adepoju discovered Merritt’s “shady background,” he quickly cut ties with him and took him to court to get his money."


Again, that ^^^^ is the same pattern. Chase makes promises that he does not keep, and begins taking Money that he cannot or does not pay back.


The above info does not 'prove' that Chase killed the McStay family. But it does show a likely motive and an explanation for the discord and animosity that permeated their business relationship at the end.

 

[fridaybaker]

Like Sgt. Ryan Smith.... I am not impressed by him... I know that probably isn't popular opinion, but I expect LE to be unbiased and professional when they testify. They are there to get the facts out and into the trial for a jury to get the information.

Again, JMO ... please don't hurt me Sgt Ryan Smith lovers ... haha

Missy,
I guess that's part of what makes getting to the truth difficult so much of the time, in these trials. The jury, supposedly and optimally, only bases their opinion on what's presented at trial; however, people are people and there are witnesses, investigators, and victims who are bad people, strange people, eccentric people, arrogant people....

I was a juror a while back and the lead detective came off incredibly cocky and smug to all of us. We couldn't stand him. Thankfully, everyone was able to set aside his off-putting persona and focus on the evidence in the case. Let's hope this jury can put aside personalities as well and find for the truth.

I keep going back to what's left of the McStays: One minute an average family, with hopes and aspirations and plans, the next a pile of bones, having suffered unimaginable pain and suffering in between.

 

[missy1974]

This is perhaps off topic - mods, please don't get mad - but I remember, way back when, someone said that the pizza incident never happened, and that Chase made it all up. Obviously, I cannot verify this, but also cannot entertain the notion that Summer would do that. Or that anyone would do that. Who on earth - literally - eats pizza with a fork and knife?

The pizza incident? That was straight from Chase and if it was just him and the family, who would say that it didn't happen? Chase?

 

[Deleted member 192280]

The above info does not 'prove' that Chase killed the McStay family. But it does show a likely motive and an explanation for the discord and animosity that permeated their business relationship at the end.

That's the problem. This is a murder trial, not a theft trial. So far, not a single solid evidence to link him to the murder. If we focus on motives, CM was not the only one that could have a motive----though I'm not even sure he had the motive to murder the whole family.

 

[missy1974]

Missy, is that because you live in the "prairies in Canada, Saskatchewan with lots of wide open spaces" and the area we're talking about is hilly? I have no idea if the area we're talking about is hilly, but I thought I've heard it is -I should go back some and do some looking. Anyway, wondering if that's the reason for long "dead zones"?

Also, I have in the back of my mind somewhere that Saskatchewan is very beautiful. Is it true? (Actually, I have in my mind something along the lines of "wild and beautiful". I'm not sure if that's the romantic in me, but it's what I think of when I hear "Saskatchewan".)

Sorry - I didn't read ahead. Now I know: Hilly!

Saskatchewan is very flat haha Lots and lots of farmland. Don't get me wrong, we have hills, we have valley's, but I can be on a highway where I can see endless flatland and not get a cellular signal. Mostly because of tower location than something like a hill or mountain blocking the signal ;-) So it surprises me to hear about so many dead zones in California, where it seems like that whole route is populated like it is.

I have lived here my whole life... I love it, I am a prairie girl through and through (but not a farmer lol) It's very quiet, our largest cities have just over 200K population, I live in a city with around 30K. This past week, I have not loved it as much... it's been stupid cold LOL Woke up yesterday to -40C and even colder with the wind... needless to say, the last 48 hours has been all about boosting vehicles and making sure everyone gets to where they need to be safely lol It has sucked badly! LOL

 

[fridaybaker]

Saskatchewan is very flat haha Lots and lots of farmland. Don't get me wrong, we have hills, we have valley's, but I can be on a highway where I can see endless flatland and not get a cellular signal. Mostly because of tower location than something like a hill or mountain blocking the signal ;-) So it surprises me to hear about so many dead zones in California, where it seems like that whole route is populated like it is.

I have lived here my whole life... I love it, I am a prairie girl through and through (but not a farmer lol) It's very quiet, our largest cities have just over 200K population, I live in a city with around 30K. This past week, I have not loved it as much... it's been stupid cold LOL Woke up yesterday to -40C and even colder with the wind... needless to say, the last 48 hours has been all about boosting vehicles and making sure everyone gets to where they need to be safely lol It has sucked badly! LOL

Missy, yes, I forgot the COMPLETE idea that forms in my mind when I hear "Saskatchewan": Wild, beautiful and....cold.
Stay warm up there, for fear we miss out on your excellent posts!

 

[katydid23]

That's the problem. This is a murder trial, not a theft trial. So far, not a single solid evidence to link him to the murder. If we focus on motives, CM was not the only one that could have a motive----though I'm not even sure he had the motive to murder the whole fmaily.

But what you are doing right now, is dismantling the wall, brick by brick, and then saying it isn't a wall.

The crime of 'theft' is part of the murder trial. It is the 'foundation' of the wall. It is what preceded the violence. It is a partial motive for the violence which ended in murder.

We have not gotten through the entire trove of evidence yet. So your complaint that there is nothing to link him to the murder might be a bit premature.

I think they made some serious headway this past week , with the call to Quickbooks to cancel Joey's account, and with the admission of the checks written to 'chase merritt' from that account and backdated to the 4th.

You may not think that is evidence that links him to the murder, but the jury may disagree. That is highly suspicious and it may place him at the McStay home, at the time of the sudden, unexplained disappearance.


And it doesn't matter if other's had motives. Because at this point, he is the only person that was using Joey's home computer that fateful night and writing checks to himself, which he later cashed and took to the casino.

As to the motive for killing the whole family---it was probably the most common motive in the book---'don't leave witnesses behind.'

 

[missy1974]

"Cohen said he also established a shared bank account, putting up $10,000 for materials.

But the money started to disappear, and the projects rarely came to completion.

“He wouldn’t do the work. He wouldn’t fill the orders. … It was always excuses, ‘the sun’s in my eyes,’” Cohen said.

By August 2013, Cohen had enough of a man he said he came to completely distrust. He ended their business dealings."



This ^^ part shows the same pattern that the State describes, that created conflict between him and Joey.


“I commissioned a few steel sculptures from Charles,” Adepoju said. “Next thing I know, I was his piggy-bank and he owed me over $4,000. I’m glad that we did not follow though with the registration of our business.“
Despite Merritt referring to Adepoju’s Hesperia office as “his office,” Adepoju said the cowboy hat-wearing metal worker only came Adepoju’s office when he needed money. After Adepoju discovered Merritt’s “shady background,” he quickly cut ties with him and took him to court to get his money."


Again, that ^^^^ is the same pattern. Chase makes promises that he does not keep, and begins taking Money that he cannot or does not pay back.


The above info does not 'prove' that Chase killed the McStay family. But it does show a likely motive and an explanation for the discord and animosity that permeated their business relationship at the end.

These are new stories to me, I have never read them before. I don't think there is any way around it, Chase had conned or stolen from others before and after Joey. They aren't charging him with anything in this case related to him stealing from Joey, so either they can't prove it or it didn't happen. Owing someone money is not necessarily stealing, could still be a con man though.

So what makes Joey different from all of these other people who lived to tell the story? (not directed at you katy, just jumping off your post )

 

[missy1974]

Missy, yes, I forgot the COMPLETE idea that forms in my mind when I hear "Saskatchewan": Wild, beautiful and....cold.
Stay warm up there, for fear we miss out on your excellent posts!

BBM Some may disagree... haha I question everything!!!!! When I first started following crime boards, my views were so different and I had a lot of faith in LE and prosecutors... I'm so sceptical nowadays!

 

[katydid23]

This is perhaps off topic - mods, please don't get mad - but I remember, way back when, someone said that the pizza incident never happened, and that Chase made it all up. Obviously, I cannot verify this, but also cannot entertain the notion that Summer would do that. Or that anyone would do that. Who on earth - literally - eats pizza with a fork and knife?

Especially toddlers. How is a toddler going to use a knife and fork to cut pizza? It is not possible.

Chase made that up so he could trash Summer, IMO.

 

[Edmo]

But what you are doing right now, is dismantling the wall, brick by brick, and then saying it isn't a wall.

The crime of 'theft' is part of the murder trial. It is the 'foundation' of the wall. It is what preceded the violence. It is a partial motive for the violence which ended in murder.

We have not gotten through the entire trove of evidence yet. So your complaint that there is nothing to link him to the murder might be a bit premature.

I think they made some serious headway this past week , with the call to Quickbooks to cancel Joey's account, and with the admission of the checks written to 'chase merritt' from that account and backdated to the 4th.

You may not think that is evidence that links him to the murder, but the jury may disagree. That is highly suspicious and it may place him at the McStay home, at the time of the sudden, unexplained disappearance.


And it doesn't matter if other's had motives. Because at this point, he is the only person that was using Joey's home computer that fateful night and writing checks to himself, which he later cashed and took to the casino.

As to the motive for killing the whole family---it was probably the most common motive in the book---'don't leave witnesses behind.'

EXACTLY