CA - Joey, Summer, Gianni, Joseph Jr McStay Murders - Feb 4th 2010 #6

[oceanblueeyes]

KAYE: Chase Merritt has never talked on camera before about that day. He met Joseph on February 4th 2010 to talk business and business was booming.

MERRITT: We have 500 waterfalls coming up, you know, it would be the biggest project we'd ever done.

KAYE: So it sounded like he was planning for the future.

MERRITT: He was definitely planning for the future.

KAYE: After lunch, they spoke on the phone a handful more times. So when Merritt's phone rang at 8:28 PM and he saw it was Joseph calling, he didn't answer.

MERRITT: I was tired.

KAYE: Do you regret not picking up that call?

MERRITT: (Inaudible) 2020.

KAYE: It was the last known call from Joseph's cell phone. The call was made 41 minutes after a neighbor security camera captured the McStay's white Isuzu pulling out of the McStay's cul-de-sac. WATTS: Did Joseph actually make that call from his phone or did somebody else take Joseph's phone and make that call or was he trying to call for help?

KAYE: That missed call is now a missed opportunity, the first of many missed opportunities.

MERRITT: The next day, I called him and he didn't answer. I started getting concerned by the end of the second day.

DAN KAVANAUGH: I put the initial word out to his friends and family that he had not been communicating online or via phone and I couldn't get a whole summary either.

KAYE: Dan Kavanaugh, who worked with Joseph managing his company's website, contacted Patrick.

KAVANAUGH: My gut instinct was not really a good one.

CNN.com - Transcripts

One thing I do think Merritt told the truth about in this interview is when he said 'I was tired,' I have no doubt he was.

He had been a very busy fellow on that jam packed particular fateful day, and knew he had much more left to do.

When he finally got around to calling his girlfriend back that night did she ever say what time he finally made it home? Tia

Imo

 

[citygirl]

That's exactly what was said in the preliminary hearing. No checks were paid out of that account until February 2, 2010.
11 Q Okay. With regard to the Custom account, were any checks
12 from, you said it was opened in January of 2008, from January of
13 2008 until February 1st, 2010, were any checks listed on
14 QuickBooks or written from QuickBooks on the Custom side of the
15 account?
16 A On the Custom side, no.
17 Q So, all the checks during that time period were listed on
18 the other account?
19 A On the Contact account, yes.

State of California VS Charles Ray Merritt: Part Four - Transcript of Charles Merritt Preliminary

This is why I responded plain and simple. Ooops. Thought this was Edmo's post.

 

[fridaybaker]

Why do you think they didn't charge him with any crimes related to the theft or forgery? And I'm not being a smart a$$ lol I'm really interested to know why they didn't.

This is the one thing that I don't understand with this case. They are saying those crimes are directly related to the murder, yet no charges? I don't believe the statute of limitations had run out in 2014 when they arrested him, because they didn't actually discover the crime until 2013 when they were fully investigating the murder and were able to get search warrants for the banks, QB's, etc. There may have been a lot of rumours from family, Dan, etc. But LE didn't actually have any proof until they were able to get the proper search warrants. So why no charges? Especially if they think that is directly related to the murder.


California's Discovery Rule

It is important to note that the statutory period for bringing a case does not begin until the offense is discovered, or should have been discovered.
California Criminal Statute of Limitations Laws - FindLaw

I'm not sure I understand. I think there wouldn't be charges precisely because they had suspicions about Chase, and wanted to put it all together. Why would they want to charge him with theft/fraud if they think it's the foundation of a murder case? I'm not trying to be obtuse or contrary -just not sure about your point.

 

[mrjitty]

Actually, isn't this a lie as well? Don't the records show that they often had very short calls? I'll have to go back and look.

How did Chase actually know Joey called him at 8.28pm?

Was this shared by the police? or did the family get the phone bills?

 

[mrjitty]

Exactly. If Merritt hadnt been so crazy greedy and not printed the chase merritt check at the Mcstay house, the prosecution would have a much more difficult job tying him to the murders. I have yet to hear a reasonable explanation from any defenders on how that check appeared on the home computer at that time. So thats why its so important that the defense must prove that the murders did not occur that night in the home.

exactly.

 

[oceanblueeyes]

The QB evidence isn't about fraud directly.

It is about whether

1. Backdating the cheques shows foreknowledge of the significance of the day 4 feb

2. Whether CM created the paul mitchell cheque on night of 4 Feb

Either of those inferences can prove he is guilty of murder

Exactly.

What I logically infer from those facts in evidence is CM was the only one that knew what had happened on the 4th concerning Joey, and his family.

CM was the only one who knew at this time the McStay family wouldn't ever be returning to their home nor were willingly missing by choice.

Only he knew Joey would never be able to check his QB account again so he knew he was free to do what he did without any intervention from the owner.

Just the QB evidence alone shows he is guilty of murder. Imo.

Imo, it fully explains his fraudulent activity found in the QB records before, and after the 4th.

Its sorta like when the cat is away the mice will play, but in this case CM had made sure he had killed the 'cat' and the cat's famly, preventing them from returning alive.

So he took his blood money and off he went to play at the casinos.

When Joey discovered CM criminal activity he had done on the 2nd, it set in motion everything that happened, and what all transpired on the 4th resulting in the entire McStay family being murdered.

Imo, the jury will not see this damaging evidence any other way. Most all jurors are very reasonable minded people, They know a duck when they see one.

Imo, they will not see this compelling, and very damaging evidence of guilt as just mere coincidences nor will they think it doesn't have any relevancy to the murders themselves.

It is this powerful evidence which is the solid foundation of how all of this came into play resulting in the murders.

From this solid QB evidence it's the foundation the state will continue to add more CE facts of guilt, brick by brick, until the QB foundation now becomes a solidly built brick 'home.'

Jmoo

 

[Bernina]

As an isolated incident, it doesn't look good. But if he called the day before and asked how to transfer the online account to a desktop account and then the next day inquired about deleting the online account when that was done... it's not so out of the ordinary. And that's according to Baker... the QB customer service rep. It was actually quite common. Baker didn't have the benefit of knowing about the call the day before... I do wonder why they didn't call the customer service rep from the previous day first before Baker.

If I remember correctly, in Baker's experience, if someone wanted the online account immediately deleted, it was to avoid IRS scrutiny.....but the defense objected before Baker could go further.

 

[asyousay]

I know a lot of people won’t agree with me on this but I’m gonna say it anyway

Not charging him with fraud may come back to bite them on their arses on top of murder. He has a record spanning decades for fraud so we know he does this.

He doesn’t have a record for murder or assault or anything like that.

I definitely am getting the fraud angle so far but as to Murder I’m not 100% convinced at the moment. The fact the crime scene was so botched I still think could means he gets away with this.

 

[JMarsh]

It is a shame that we don't have a thread that is restricted to trial information. There are many of us who want to discuss the facts of the trial, the prosecution case and the defense case in a logical and readable manner. This thread started out that way, but the last 3 or 4 parts of it have muddied the waters for those who are trying to follow the court procedings. jmho

That would be useful. Jurors are weeded out who have a previous interest in this case. They will be basing their decision solely on the evidence presented at trial. It would be interesting to discuss only the evidence presented at trial.

 

[JMarsh]

One thing I do think Merritt told the truth about in this interview is when he said 'I was tired,' I have no doubt he was.

He had been a very busy fellow on that jam packed particular fateful day, and knew he had much more left to do.

When he finally got around to calling his girlfriend back that night did she ever say what time he finally made it home? Tia

Imo

Yeah. About that.

It is curious to me that a narrative involving a middle-aged man driving at break-neck speed at rush hour, I guess with the intent to kill, enters a home and brutally, brutally murders everyone in it, who then drives away, but returns to the crime scene 6 minutes later WHY? (not knowing if a friend or neighbor of the victim's might suddenly knock), to write a check he doesn't bother to print (Why?), and could have written from his home, apparently, then drives away-at some point again, gets the bodies, buries them two days after killing them, at some point returns to clean but is never seen by neighbors, somehow drives the family Trooper to the border, on a day when he also is busy in Rancho and Azusa, and returns with no problem, again in record time, and then performs a number of random weird searches on the family computer, (again why), and does this all for money he was owed by one of the victims anyway, a man who had always paid him....

And this middle-aged man has NO help, whatsoever...

How is THAT so much easier to believe than that two business men whose business is growing, decide to alter, ever so slightly, the method of accounting they were using?

I have no idea at this point if Chase is guilty, but in many ways the true camel in the room is not the idea that two men doing business together would change their accounting model, it is the state's narrative. It is all over the place.

 

[JMarsh]

Right. But that still brings up a lot of questions.

Joey had not been using the custom account for creating checks. The custom account was created solely to track money owed to Merritt (minus advances or loans made to Merritt by McStay).:



The Case in Chief

[from June 15, 2015 Preliminary Hearing]

[Joseph McStay had two Intuit On-Line QuickBooks accounts. His first and primary account was created in 2004 and he titled it “Contacts“. The Contacts account was used to keep record of receivables and payables for McStay’s on-line company Earth Inspired Products (EIP), and also tracked his personal finances. His second account, Custom, was created in 2008 after he had begun working with Charles Merritt. And from all reports the Custom account was created solely to track money owed to Merritt (minus advances or loans made to Merritt by McStay).

McStay was not known to draft checks from either the Contacts or Custom accounts by way of his computer. He would instead hand-write checks and later add the details to the Contacts Account as a matter of record keeping.

Prior to February 1, 2010 the Custom account was never used for check writing at all, but instead tallied McStay’s work with Merritt.


[ So why , within days of the family vanishing, does Joey tell Chase to start creating checks from the custom account, when it had never been used for that before?]

[ It seems like a way to really mess up one's accounting, to begin doing it that way. It was not the reason the custom account was set up. And it doesn't seem like a very good way to change it if he is going to have a lot more money and new projects coming in, to keep track of.]

Yes. Exactly. You get it. The Custom account was the one that Joey used with Merritt. It is the obvious account for check writing if Joey and Merritt have now arranged that Merritt will be printing some of his own checks. And it allows for Joey to protect his more critical and important account, Contacts.

Yes!

 

[Bernina]

The whole Quickbooks fiasco:

Why did "Someone" call from CM's phone claiming to be "JM" to Mr. Baker?

And why did that "Someone" NOT have the password to the QB Custom account email addy to respond to the instructions to delete the Custom QB financials? Not just 1 response from Baker/QB/Intuit, but 3?

 

[JMarsh]

The whole Quickbooks fiasco:

Why did "Someone" call from CM's phone claiming to be "JM" to Mr. Baker?

And why did that "Someone" NOT have the password to the QB Custom account email addy to respond to the instructions to delete the Custom QB financials? Not just 1 response from Baker/QB/Intuit, but 3?

I think Chase did have the email and password to the Custom account. He just didn't have the Administrators password and email.

It's really possible that the investigators aren't really all that computer savvy.

 

[Bernina]

I think Chase did have the email and password to the Custom account. He just didn't have the Administrators password and email.

It's really possible that the investigators aren't really all that computer savvy.

You totally missed the point.

Why did "Someone" call from CM's phone claiming to be "JM" to Mr. Baker?

 

[JMarsh]

You totally missed the point.

Why did "Someone" call from CM's phone claiming to be "JM" to Mr. Baker?

We don't know that he did. The recording of that conversation mysteriously vanished. Why?

 

[Bernina]

We don't know that he did. The recording of that conversation mysteriously vanished. Why?

So Baker, who has no horse in this race, is lying about his notes. CM's phone record of the call to Intuit is fake......

Once again:

Why did "Someone" call from CM's phone claiming to be "JM" to Mr. Baker?

 

[cobalt sky]

Exactly.

What I logically infer from those facts in evidence is CM was the only one that knew what had happened on the 4th concerning Joey, and his family.

CM was the only one who knew at this time the McStay family wouldn't ever be returning to their home nor were willingly missing by choice.

Only he knew Joey would never be able to check his QB account again so he knew he was free to do what he did without any intervention from the owner.

Just the QB evidence alone shows he is guilty of murder. Imo.

Imo, it fully explains his fraudulent activity found in the QB records before, and after the 4th.

Its sorta like when the cat is away the mice will play, but in this case CM had made sure he had killed the 'cat' and the cat's famly, preventing them from returning alive.

So he took his blood money and off he went to play at the casinos.

When Joey discovered CM criminal activity he had done on the 2nd, it set in motion everything that happened, and what all transpired on the 4th resulting in the entire McStay family being murdered.

Imo, the jury will not see this damaging evidence any other way. Most all jurors are very reasonable minded people, They know a duck when they see one.

Imo, they will not see this compelling, and very damaging evidence of guilt as just mere coincidences nor will they think it doesn't have any relevancy to the murders themselves.

It is this powerful evidence which is the solid foundation of how all of this came into play resulting in the murders.

From this solid QB evidence it's the foundation the state will continue to add more CE facts of guilt, brick by brick, until the QB foundation now becomes a solidly built brick 'home.'

Jmoo

BBM.

I have seen several posts (not just by this author, others as well) implying that if one does not blindly lap up the state's case, they must be unreasonable or dense. I find it very offensive.

I have a lot of questions and want to see more evidence before determining what Chase is guilty of. That does not make me unreasonable or dimwitted.

 

[asyousay]

We don't know that he did. The recording of that conversation mysteriously vanished. Why?

“ When confronted by investigators about cashing checks from Joseph McStay's business account and making changes to the account using the online software QuickBooks, Merritt "admitted he tried to change the QuickBooks account and stated Joseph McStay instructed him to make the changes, though Merritt did not attempt to conduct the changes until days after their meeting and Merritt claimed he had already lost contact with Joseph McStay."

 

[cobalt sky]

Yeah. About that.

It is curious to me that a narrative involving a middle-aged man driving at break-neck speed at rush hour, I guess with the intent to kill, enters a home and brutally, brutally murders everyone in it, who then drives away, but returns to the crime scene 6 minutes later WHY? (not knowing if a friend or neighbor of the victim's might suddenly knock), to write a check he doesn't bother to print (Why?), and could have written from his home, apparently, then drives away-at some point again, gets the bodies, buries them two days after killing them, at some point returns to clean but is never seen by neighbors, somehow drives the family Trooper to the border, on a day when he also is busy in Rancho and Azusa, and returns with no problem, again in record time, and then performs a number of random weird searches on the family computer, (again why), and does this all for money he was owed by one of the victims anyway, a man who had always paid him....

And this middle-aged man has NO help, whatsoever...

How is THAT so much easier to believe than that two business men whose business is growing, decide to alter, ever so slightly, the method of accounting they were using?

I have no idea at this point if Chase is guilty, but in many ways the true camel in the room is not the idea that two men doing business together would change their accounting model, it is the state's narrative. It is all over the place.

Bold and blue by me

Yes I brought this up yesterday, it's one of the many things that don't make sense to me. He already accessed the custom account on Feb 1 and Feb 2, created and deleted checks, and cashed one of them. There was no need for a "dry run" on the 4th as has been previously suggested. So it is a mystery as to why he would waste the time doing this, at the crime scene where he just bludgeoned 4 people to death, and had bodies to hide and a crime scene to clean up. I'm not saying he DIDN'T, I don't know if he did or not or if there is another explanation... but I wonder why he would waste his time with this with so much else he needed to do that would be a priority, especially since he could have just done the exact same thing remotely later on (which he actually did).

 

[Longtimenoc]

Yeah. About that.

It is curious to me that a narrative involving a middle-aged man driving at break-neck speed at rush hour, I guess with the intent to kill, enters a home and brutally, brutally murders everyone in it, who then drives away, but returns to the crime scene 6 minutes later WHY? (not knowing if a friend or neighbor of the victim's might suddenly knock), to write a check he doesn't bother to print (Why?), and could have written from his home, apparently, then drives away-at some point again, gets the bodies, buries them two days after killing them, at some point returns to clean but is never seen by neighbors, somehow drives the family Trooper to the border, on a day when he also is busy in Rancho and Azusa, and returns with no problem, again in record time, and then performs a number of random weird searches on the family computer, (again why), and does this all for money he was owed by one of the victims anyway, a man who had always paid him....

And this middle-aged man has NO help, whatsoever...

How is THAT so much easier to believe than that two business men whose business is growing, decide to alter, ever so slightly, the method of accounting they were using?

I have no idea at this point if Chase is guilty, but in many ways the true camel in the room is not the idea that two men doing business together would change their accounting model, it is the state's narrative. It is all over the place.

Maybe Merri

Yeah. About that.

It is curious to me that a narrative involving a middle-aged man driving at break-neck speed at rush hour, I guess with the intent to kill, enters a home and brutally, brutally murders everyone in it, who then drives away, but returns to the crime scene 6 minutes later WHY? (not knowing if a friend or neighbor of the victim's might suddenly knock), to write a check he doesn't bother to print (Why?), and could have written from his home, apparently, then drives away-at some point again, gets the bodies, buries them two days after killing them, at some point returns to clean but is never seen by neighbors, somehow drives the family Trooper to the border, on a day when he also is busy in Rancho and Azusa, and returns with no problem, again in record time, and then performs a number of random weird searches on the family computer, (again why), and does this all for money he was owed by one of the victims anyway, a man who had always paid him....

And this middle-aged man has NO help, whatsoever...

How is THAT so much easier to believe than that two business men whose business is growing, decide to alter, ever so slightly, the method of accounting they were using?

I have no idea at this point if Chase is guilty, but in many ways the true camel in the room is not the idea that two men doing business together would change their accounting model, it is the state's narrative. It is all over the place.

I think ever so slightly altering the accounting method is quite an understatement when we know he walked away with nearly 20k when said and done.

Also, he was aware of the family habits, perhaps he suspected they didnt get many drop in visitors at night. Or even during the day. The Mcstays seemed to live a private life. Moving the truck would give him cover for further activities.

Banks are closed in the evening so that also bought him time if by chance he feared JM of talking to them about the thefts.

Perhaps this middle-aged man drove at breakneck speed down the freeway to rob them. The murders may have occurred when he couldnt get any or enough cash which he suspected might be stashed in the home. Im just speculating.

There is evidence of torture. JMs shattered leg and smashed ribs, extension cord around his neck, perhaps the murder wanted information like "Where's the money or Im going to freaking kill you."