CA - Joey, Summer, Gianni, Joseph Jr McStay Murders - Feb 4th 2010 #6

[JMarsh]

Re: the vanished QB recording.
I am wondering if the call was destroyed because the caller (Chase) was not advised the call was being recorded. I work with a large company that records calls, but we have to provide the disclaimer or else the call is not useable. I don’t know if they are destroyed, but if an issue arises and the caller was not informed of the recording, we cannot continue listening to the recording.

That absolutely seems possible, however there should be a record of that occurring.

 

[katydid23]

Right, and since the motive is greed based on fraud and theft, why no charges for those?

It would be so much more complicated for them to try him for all of those minor charges, at the same time. This case is already going to go on for 6 months. How long would it be if they added in all of the fraud/theft charges too? It would be hella confusing too.

 

[katydid23]

But you might need to be an advanced expert to properly interpret what it means.

An 'expert' needs to interpret what it 'means' that' chase merritt ' was add-on on Feb 1st to the custom account?

I think it is a fact, not something that needs interpretation. Both sides will give their own spin on what it means.

 

[JMarsh]

IMO the how and where doesn't matter - it was achieved by someone.

In this case the how and where are everything. We have zero direct evidence here.

 

[JMarsh]

An 'expert' needs to interpret what it 'means' that' chase merritt ' was add-on on Feb 1st to the custom account?

I think it is a fact, not something that needs interpretation. Both sides will give their own spin on what it means.

An expert is needed to determine what it actually means. Is the date and time correct? Did that check actually get generated on a computer not in the McStay home.

Experts are needed, always, when it comes to this type of science. The variables are just too many for the data to be accepted on face value.

 

[asyousay]

Re: the vanished QB recording.
I am wondering if the call was destroyed because the caller (Chase) was not advised the call was being recorded. I work with a large company that records calls, but we have to provide the disclaimer or else the call is not useable. I don’t know if they are destroyed, but if an issue arises and the caller was not informed of the recording, we cannot continue listening to the recording.

Again this is the UK so you guys may do things definitely but it’s the Law they have to tell you beforehand that they are recording you. It’s a pre recorded message and is automatically done before a service advisor picks up the call.

 

[katydid23]

Exactly. If Merritt hadnt been so crazy greedy and not printed the chase merritt check at the Mcstay house, the prosecution would have a much more difficult job tying him to the murders. I have yet to hear a reasonable explanation from any defenders on how that check appeared on the home computer at that time. So thats why its so important that the defense must prove that the murders did not occur that night in the home.

Yup. That's why they have to convince the jury that Summer gave the kids popcorn for breakfast,

 

[katydid23]

Are you an expert?

No, but I do know what an 'expert' means in jury trials. It means a hired gun. Sometimes we do better without too many of them.

FACTS ARE FACTS. The jury should be allowed to interpret them at will, imo.

 

[Bernina]

Yeah. And for all we know the guy smoked weed all day. The fact that he wrote it up, doesn't mean he was accurate. And if he was so concerned, why not inform a supervisor?

There was no opportunity to really challenge Baker or his memory. I feel bad for the guy, but he is testifying to something that could get a man put on death row-he has to be able to be properly cross examined.

Well, for all we know EVERY witness was smoking weed, crack, or drinking on the job and their memory or work product should be questionable. Is that what you're implying?

Back to the point:

Why did CM LIE about who he was when trying to have the custom portion of Quickbooks deleted? What was his justification?

Deflection by questioning the written work product, memory by statement refreshment, or the "possibility" of being under the influence is a huge stretch.

 

[dlkutac]

Interesting. But why would the same check number pop up, when there had been other checks generated in the interim, between when the number first shows up, and when it shows up again?

If whoever was creating the check 4093 just let the popup ride (which is not known) the reason would be that 4092 had been the last input prior to creation, even if it was out of order. So, if you created 4093 at some previous time, then input 4092 later, then created again, 4093 would be generated again. If 4093 had been previously created and deleted, you would not get the normal warning that it already existed. If you had not deleted it, it would say the number already exists in the system, do you still wish to proceed. But you can fill in, overwrite, any number you want.

The deletions are the huge problem for me. Not only because I'm OCD, but because even if Joey said go ahead a print checks off the custom account, they would still need to be saved to record in the contact account since that's where the g/l was being maintained. There would need to be that report generated in custom which would allow the information to be easily input into contacts at a later time. Even if you buy the idea that Joey said let's do it this way using custom, after the information was successfully recorded in contacts, there would really be no reason to delete them from custom since it was supposed to be tracking Chase's expenditures, reimbursements, etc. plus the custom account had no purpose as far as financial statements. No need to delete. You could say Chase was forwarding the details of the checks he wrote to Joey, but then 4093 should have been recorded rather than deleted from the contacts account. Deleting means hiding in every circumstance I can think of.

 

[mrjitty]

I have some theories about Chase, that I cannot really support, but I do think for a number of reasons, he might not make a good witness, even if innocent. And if he takes the stand that might open the door up to his past, which would be highly prejudicial to his case.

I completely get why he won't be called.

I just get grumpy about the defence advancing narratives based on accused's personal knowledge if they don't produce the witness.

So for example, IMO it would be proper to produce evidence (if it exists) that common practice is to delete cheques in quickbooks if you are operating in a certain way.

IMO what is inappropriate is for the defence to claim Joey told Chase to follow that practice, without producing the testimony

This is why I am totally unimpressed with the Judge. If you want to insinuate Joey asked Chase to delete QBs - you sure as hell better produce the key witness or risk a dressing down

Otherwise one is rather having ones cake and eating it

 

[katydid23]

An expert is needed to determine what it actually means. Is the date and time correct? Did that check actually get generated on a computer not in the McStay home.

Experts are needed, always, when it comes to this type of science. The variables are just too many for the data to be accepted on face value.

The state used an expert already to make those determinations. That's what investigators do. They already determined it was not generated on the McStay devices. Although I am sure the defense will have their own 'expert' to muddy up the waters.

 

[travelbug]

It would be so much more complicated for them to try him for all of those minor charges, at the same time. This case is already going to go on for 6 months. How long would it be if they added in all of the fraud/theft charges too? It would be hella confusing too.

What concerns me regarding the fraud/theft charges is not that they be additional charges during this trial. We know that a few years elapsed before the remain were found and they were ready to arrest someone for murder. During that time period we can also observe that CM was back to "usual" fraud tactics. They already knew about the purported misappropriation and fraud charges since 2010. Why not arrest and incarcerate CM at that time, thereby preventing him from creating more victims (particularly, if they believed him to be a murderer).

 

[mrjitty]

If whoever was creating the check 4093 just let the popup ride (which is not known) the reason would be that 4092 had been the last input prior to creation, even if it was out of order. So, if you created 4093 at some previous time, then input 4092 later, then created again, 4093 would be generated again. If 4093 had been previously created and deleted, you would not get the normal warning that it already existed. If you had not deleted it, it would say the number already exists in the system, do you still wish to proceed. But you can fill in, overwrite, any number you want.

The deletions are the huge problem for me. Not only because I'm OCD, but because even if Joey said go ahead a print checks off the custom account, they would still need to be saved to record in the contact account since that's where the g/l was being maintained. There would need to be that report generated in custom which would allow the information to be easily input into contacts at a later time. Even if you buy the idea that Joey said let's do it this way using custom, after the information was successfully recorded in contacts, there would really be no reason to delete them from custom since it was supposed to be tracking Chase's expenditures, reimbursements, etc. plus the custom account had no purpose as far as financial statements. No need to delete. You could say Chase was forwarding the details of the checks he wrote to Joey, but then 4093 should have been recorded rather than deleted from the contacts account. Deleting means hiding in every circumstance I can think of.

I agree.

Chase is one of your biggest costs sources. What's the point of deleting him? And apparently deleting payments to him right out of your business records?

That kind of thing could get you in a power of trouble if you got audited.

Which is of course why Joey had the Chase costs all nicely recorded in the other account.

 

[katydid23]

What does that matter? Why write a check in a location where if you are discovered you are certainly in deep doo doo. When you know (and this is from state's evidence) that you can write that very same check and print it, from home?

Chase wrote checks previously that week from a location NOT in the McStay residence. He just bashed in the heads of four people. The house is a mess, he is covered with blood, he just drove his truck away and he comes back to what? Write a check?

Why?

Why do any thing that was done that night? Why smash in the skulls of 2 tiny boys with a sledgehammer? That makes no sense either.

Why write that check? Maybe he felt greedy and wanted to leave the scene with a check so he could go to the casino the next day? But then he changed his mind, realized it was a bad idea, and so he deleted it, hoping no one would ever see it, since Joey was dead.

He may have just moved the truck, so it wouldn't be so noticeable, and in case he needed to slip away quickly if someone knocked on the door.

 

[katydid23]

I'm not sure. Because if there was a default check number that just popped up, whenever a check was written on that account, I would think it would be something like 4000. It's odd that is is 4093. That seems very specific.

I really don't know what to make of it.

I read an exchange between Chase and an investigator, in 2015 prelims, I believe----and Chase tells the investigator that he had 10 checks from Joey's account, in his possession. 3 of them were already signed by Joey, and 3 he signed himself, and he used them to pay for supplies.

I can totally believe that and could understand why Joey would give him checks to pay vendors. Joey would have those 10 check numbers and be able to track them.

But if Joey was 'gone' --then who would be tracking those checks?

 

[Mony Mony]

I don’t see what we would gain by getting a recording of the QB call, unless some are suggesting the two timed felon did not make the call. I thought he admitted to making the call. What more do we need?

 

[katydid23]

Here is testimony from Detective Daniel Hanke at the Preliminary Hearing.

Q Did you show him the checks that were created on February
5th and backdated to February 4th?
A Yes, I did.
Q Did he tell you he wrote those checks?
A I don’t believe he said he — I believe he said Joseph
wrote the checks.
Q Did he identify the typewritten entries and say: Those
were typewritten, he wouldn’t have done that?
A That’s correct.
Q Did you confront him with the fact that those checks that
were dated February 4th to himself and to Metro Sheet Metal were
backdated?
A Yes, I did.
Q Did you ask him why in the world they would be backdated
to the date this family went missing?
A Yes.
Q Did he deny backdating any of those checks?
A He did not deny.
Q Did he have an explanation as to why he would back-date
those checks?
A He did not offer any explanations.

Charles Ray Merritt: Timeline of Evidence in the McStay Family Murders

So Chase told the detectives that Joey wrote those checks on the 4th?

 

[katydid23]

Why would he do this? He's not moving an armoire, he's moving four people he just murdered. Why return to write a check he could have written from home?

Really stop and think about that for a moment.

Someone who has just brutally bludgeoned an entire family is not in their right mind. He would have been crazed at that time, not thinking clearly.

If this crime was motivated by rage and greed, then him going immediately to the bank account and writing out a check to himself makes perfect sense, to him at that time.

He didn't return to write that check. He returned for other reasons, most likely. To clean up some fingerprints, and telltale signs, to remove evidence.

 

[mrjitty]

Here is testimony from Detective Daniel Hanke at the Preliminary Hearing.

Q Did you show him the checks that were created on February
5th and backdated to February 4th?
A Yes, I did.
Q Did he tell you he wrote those checks?
A I don’t believe he said he — I believe he said Joseph
wrote the checks.
Q Did he identify the typewritten entries and say: Those
were typewritten, he wouldn’t have done that?
A That’s correct.
Q Did you confront him with the fact that those checks that
were dated February 4th to himself and to Metro Sheet Metal were
backdated?
A Yes, I did.
Q Did you ask him why in the world they would be backdated
to the date this family went missing?
A Yes.
Q Did he deny backdating any of those checks?
A He did not deny.
Q Did he have an explanation as to why he would back-date
those checks?
A He did not offer any explanations.

Charles Ray Merritt: Timeline of Evidence in the McStay Family Murders

So Chase told the detectives that Joey wrote those checks on the 4th?

Whoops

By the way that website has a power of great resources.

Do we know who runs it?