CA - Joey, Summer, Gianni, Joseph Jr McStay Murders - Feb 4th 2010 #6

[katydid23]

The hand written check for 100 or 200 was dated the 2nd and deposited by Chase on the 3rd.

So if Chase had been working with Joey together, to write these other checks on the 1st and 2nd, why would Joey then write a check to Chase for 200 bucks? Why wouldn't he, in all of those phone calls where they were discussing these QB actions, just have Chase create it?

 

[missy1974]

The time I noted might be very slightly off, because I played and rewound multiple times in order to try and transcribe it. But it is pretty close, just a bit early, imo.

I am not sure they were talking about calls to CJ, because they said specifically, calls 'between the 2 of them', referring to JM and CM.

ohhhhh I bet they were talking about the calls AFTER Feb 4th (how many of the calls of CM calling JM went to VM) When I get to that part, I will take note of the time, I listened for a few minutes before and didn't hear anything about phone records.

 

[JMarsh]

IMO, you are 100% correct. I used to date a gambling addict who was addicted to slot machines. She was 300 times worse than any drug addict I've known. For example, her 6 year old child has COPD and is going to die without a lung transplant. She takes the checks she gets sent for her daughter, as well as ********'s she has set up and uses it to gamble with. Has left so many utility bills unpaid with balances that she actually had to put the cable, electric, and water in her daughter's name.

The thing that needs to be factored into this, is that Chase was not the only person in Joey's life who gambled and incurred some life-hiccups because of this.

When attempting to figure out what another person, who is not us, would do, we have to examine THEIR pattern of behaviour, not rely solely on our own.

This isn't about what we would do, it's about what Joey would do.

 

[Force Ten]

The evidence that Joey gave Chase permission to access the QB account is that Chase only accessed CUSTOM. If Chase really wanted to drain Joey's account, and he was stealing passwords, etc, why not go for the full enchilada and delve into the CONTACTS account?

Chase only ever accessed the CUSTOM account, which was generated because of him, and solely for work Joey was doing with Chase. He wrote checks that would be discovered immediately once cashed, so there was no way to hide this activity. Following every incident of check writing on the CUSTOM account, Chase called Joey-even after Joey went missing. And there is no indication that Joey ever altered passwords or alerted any authority to fraud.

There is no indication that Joey was going to fire Chase and every indication that he planned on working with Chase long term.

There is an indication that a change in how they were handling basic accounting and check writing was in the works. That's it. No evidence of anything nefarious, at all.

BBM. I disagree. If he wasn't trying to hide his activity, as you proposed with the cashing, why is he deleting all the checks from the record?

Joseph already had two vendor accounts for Merritt - Charles Merritt and Idesign Chase. There would be no need to create an extra account for "chase merritt" as was done on the 1st.

It was probably becoming abundantly clear to Merritt that his days were numbered with Joseph. He was no longer making waterfalls for EIP. Joseph lost huge with the Provencho ($34k) chargeback and many others. Merritt was subdued to basic plumbing, lighting and crating. Joseph initially gave Merritt a $100 check. Maybe it was a front for his next paycheck because it was what was needed for what Merritt was short on the rent. But, it was only $100.

 

[missy1974]

Do we know the date the scan was run


So you are saying that a system scan physically alters the last access date of a cache file? If so, where could I find verification?

The scan would have been in and around the time the bookmark was accessed (6:16PM February 5th) I have attached a copy of the screenshot I took last week.

It's a bookmark in Internet Explorer not a cached file. You can get verification from testimony, it's on Day 18 end of Part 1/ Day 18 beginning of Part 2. Or if you don't want to listen to it all, even just going to Day 18 part 2, Det. Schroeder has an opinion after looking at the FBI report during the break.

 

[Force Ten]

The thing that needs to be factored into this, is that Chase was not the only person in Joey's life who gambled and incurred some life-hiccups because of this.

When attempting to figure out what another person, who is not us, would do, we have to examine THEIR pattern of behaviour, not rely solely on our own.

This isn't about what we would do, it's about what Joey would do.

Like who?

 

[JMarsh]

Like who?

Joey. We have to look at who Joey chose to have in his life to know who he would or would not have chosen to have around.

 

[JMarsh]

Doesn't appear that way. I wasn't asking a question but providing answers.

My apologies.

Was this not a question: "If he wasn't trying to hide his activity, as you proposed with the cashing, why is he deleting all the checks from the record?"

If that was meant as a question, the answer is to be had in yesterday's testimony.

 

[missy1974]

BBM. I disagree. If he wasn't trying to hide his activity, as you proposed with the cashing, why is he deleting all the checks from the record?

Joseph already had two vendor accounts for Merritt - Charles Merritt and Idesign Chase. There would be no need to create an extra account for "chase merritt" as was done on the 1st.

It was probably becoming abundantly clear to Merritt that his days were numbered with Joseph. He was no longer making waterfalls for EIP. Joseph lost huge with the Provencho ($34k) chargeback and many others. Merritt was subdued to basic plumbing, lighting and crating. Joseph initially gave Merritt a $100 check. Maybe it was a front for his next paycheck because it was what was needed for what Merritt was short on the rent. But, it was only $100.

There has been some serious confusion about all of this "vendor list" stuff.

I didn't get screenshots, I will do that later when I actually get to watch it again, but I did make these notes:

Backend user custom account info shows the username (eipcustom) and the email ([email protected])… West testifies that those would be needed to verify the account.

Backend user contact account info shows username (eipjd) and the email ([email protected])

CUSTOM ACCOUNT - billing started in January 2008 - separate from contact account

CONTACT ACCOUNT - billing started in September 2005 - separate from custom account.
​

These 2 accounts were absolutely 2 SEPARATE accounts. They had different user names, different emails, and different subscriptions... they also had 2 different vendor lists. During testimony, they showed those lists. The contact one had Charles Merritt and Idesign. But the custom one only had 4, which included the new charles merritt and msm one's. IMO the thought that Chase or whoever didn't need to add Charles Merritt to the vendor list because it already existed is no longer a valid argument.

Give me a few minutes and I will see if I can find them in the testimony and take snips.

 

[JMarsh]

Thank you. That's a really good explanation of this.

There has been some serious confusion about all of this "vendor list" stuff.

I didn't get screenshots, I will do that later when I actually get to watch it again, but I did make these notes:

Backend user custom account info shows the username (eipcustom) and the email ([email protected])… West testifies that those would be needed to verify the account.

Backend user contact account info shows username (eipjd) and the email ([email protected])

CUSTOM ACCOUNT - billing started in January 2008 - separate from contact account

CONTACT ACCOUNT - billing started in September 2005 - separate from custom account.
​

These 2 accounts were absolutely 2 SEPARATE accounts. They had different user names, different emails, and different subscriptions... they also had 2 different vendor lists. During testimony, they showed those lists. The contact one had Charles Merritt and Idesign. But the custom one only had 4, which included the new charles merritt and msm one's. IMO the thought that Chase or whoever didn't need to add Charles Merritt to the vendor list because it already existed is no longer a valid argument.

Give me a few minutes and I will see if I can find them in the testimony and take snips.

 

[Force Ten]

My apologies.

Was this not a question: "If he wasn't trying to hide his activity, as you proposed with the cashing, why is he deleting all the checks from the record?"

If that was meant as a question, the answer is to be had in yesterday's testimony.

Can you kindly point to where that testimony is? Chase hasn't testified yet, or perhaps I missed it.

 

[Bernina]

The thing that needs to be factored into this, is that Chase was not the only person in Joey's life who gambled and incurred some life-hiccups because of this.

When attempting to figure out what another person, who is not us, would do, we have to examine THEIR pattern of behaviour, not rely solely on our own.

This isn't about what we would do, it's about what Joey would do.

This is a trial, NOT an investigation. That ship sailed years ago..........

 

[dlkutac]

The evidence that Joey gave Chase permission to access the QB account is that Chase only accessed CUSTOM. If Chase really wanted to drain Joey's account, and he was stealing passwords, etc, why not go for the full enchilada and delve into the CONTACTS account?

Chase only ever accessed the CUSTOM account, which was generated because of him, and solely for work Joey was doing with Chase. He wrote checks that would be discovered immediately once cashed, so there was no way to hide this activity. Following every incident of check writing on the CUSTOM account, Chase called Joey-even after Joey went missing. And there is no indication that Joey ever altered passwords or alerted any authority to fraud.

There is no indication that Joey was going to fire Chase and every indication that he planned on working with Chase long term.

There is an indication that a change in how they were handling basic accounting and check writing was in the works. That's it. No evidence of anything nefarious, at all.

He didn't need access to the Contact account to drain Joey's account. Checks could be created equally easily from both accounts. The money was in the bank, not the QB accounts. But he did appear to show some restraint. I'm speculating that Chase was trying to convey things were business as usual by not draining every cent on day two.

I did notice something strange about the check printing starting Feb 1st. Whoever printed system assigned check 4093, printed on stock 4240, did not seem to have any trouble aligning the check. Whereas, the first check printed by Merritt on the 5th, system assigned 4095, printed on stock 4237 gave him 1/2 hour of trouble. It was reset five times trying to get it printed before it was completely deleted. I would assume if the same printer was used on both the 1st and the 5th, it would not have been so much trouble, as evidenced by the fact the second check he printed on the 5th gave him no problem. He learned the alignment. So, where was the check on Feb 1st printed? They should have tried to tie devices to those check transactions yesterday. The compartmentalization of duties in piecing the case together makes this whole thing so much harder to follow.

The transaction from Joey's home is still completely bizarre. On Feb 4th, 7:59 p.m. check in the amount of $4000.00 to charles merritt, created at McStay House, blank audit history, not printed, deleted, not cashed. No apparent reason for this transaction to exist. Activity on the custom account from the McStay home makes no sense in terms of speculation about a newly established business procedure. (imo)

Plus, we still have the check stock which Chase had in his possession with no signatures - per his own admission.

 

[JMarsh]

He didn't need access to the Contact account to drain Joey's account. Checks could be created equally easily from both accounts. The money was in the bank, not the QB accounts. But he did appear to show some restraint. I'm speculating that Chase was trying to convey things were business as usual by not draining every cent on day two.

I did notice something strange about the check printing starting Feb 1st. Whoever printed system assigned check 4093, printed on stock 4240, did not seem to have any trouble aligning the check. Whereas, the first check printed by Merritt on the 5th, system assigned 4095, printed on stock 4237 gave him 1/2 hour of trouble. It was reset five times trying to get it printed before it was completely deleted. I would assume if the same printer was used on both the 1st and the 5th, it would not have been so much trouble. So, where was the check on Feb 1st printed? They should have tried to tie devices to those check transactions yesterday. The compartmentalization of duties in piecing the case together makes this whole thing so much harder to follow.

The transaction from Joey's home is still completely bizarre. On Feb 4th, 7:59 p.m. check in the amount of $4000.00 to charles merritt, created at McStay House, blank audit history, not printed, deleted, not cashed. No apparent reason for this transaction to exist. Activity on the custom account from the McStay home makes no sense in terms of speculation about a newly established business procedure. (imo)

Plus, we still have the check stock which Chase had in his possession with no signatures - per his own admission.

Then why didn't Chase drain Joey's accounts? Why didn't he write more checks if that was his purpose? The defense has promised they are bringing in a forensic accountant, and according to the opening statement from the defense, all amounts are in keeping with what Chase was owed. Why would a person kill for money they would be paid anyway?

The purpose of accessing Joey's Contacts account, if one were intent on stealing, is that there would be much more information there, including bank balance totals. And Chase might have been able to perform withdrawls, bypassing the check writing process. If you are going to kill a family of four, wouldn't you want a little more in return? He could have stolen 100k and fled to Mexico with his family. Why didn't he.

 

[Plo_Koon]

Like who?

I'm wondering the same thing.

 

[Mony Mony]

Did CM admit to trying to delete the QB account and the back dating of checks during the initial police interview? He was really concerned about being honest and forthcoming due to his outstanding warrant. I can't remember if he did or not. Thanks

 

[Bernina]

There has been some serious confusion about all of this "vendor list" stuff.

I didn't get screenshots, I will do that later when I actually get to watch it again, but I did make these notes:

Backend user custom account info shows the username (eipcustom) and the email ([email protected])… West testifies that those would be needed to verify the account.

Backend user contact account info shows username (eipjd) and the email ([email protected])

CUSTOM ACCOUNT - billing started in January 2008 - separate from contact account

CONTACT ACCOUNT - billing started in September 2005 - separate from custom account.
​

These 2 accounts were absolutely 2 SEPARATE accounts. They had different user names, different emails, and different subscriptions... they also had 2 different vendor lists. During testimony, they showed those lists. The contact one had Charles Merritt and Idesign. But the custom one only had 4, which included the new charles merritt and msm one's. IMO the thought that Chase or whoever didn't need to add Charles Merritt to the vendor list because it already existed is no longer a valid argument.

Give me a few minutes and I will see if I can find them in the testimony and take snips.

The Custom account was only used for a running balance on the business, NOT to print checks from. That's been repeated over and over again from the stand. Like your standard book keeping ledger that you reconcile you debits, credits, etc, etc. The Contact account had everything paid in and out, business and personal. Once again, as stated on the stand.

 

[JMarsh]

He didn't need access to the Contact account to drain Joey's account. Checks could be created equally easily from both accounts. The money was in the bank, not the QB accounts. But he did appear to show some restraint. I'm speculating that Chase was trying to convey things were business as usual by not draining every cent on day two.

I did notice something strange about the check printing starting Feb 1st. Whoever printed system assigned check 4093, printed on stock 4240, did not seem to have any trouble aligning the check. Whereas, the first check printed by Merritt on the 5th, system assigned 4095, printed on stock 4237 gave him 1/2 hour of trouble. It was reset five times trying to get it printed before it was completely deleted. I would assume if the same printer was used on both the 1st and the 5th, it would not have been so much trouble, as evidenced by the fact the second check he printed on the 5th gave him no problem. He learned the alignment. So, where was the check on Feb 1st printed? They should have tried to tie devices to those check transactions yesterday. The compartmentalization of duties in piecing the case together makes this whole thing so much harder to follow.

The transaction from Joey's home is still completely bizarre. On Feb 4th, 7:59 p.m. check in the amount of $4000.00 to charles merritt, created at McStay House, blank audit history, not printed, deleted, not cashed. No apparent reason for this transaction to exist. Activity on the custom account from the McStay home makes no sense in terms of speculation about a newly established business procedure. (imo)

Plus, we still have the check stock which Chase had in his possession with no signatures - per his own admission.

Regarding your other questions, if Joey and Chase were experimenting with a new payment method, they were likely generating draft checks, prior to printing. Again, if Joey was alive, he could easily monitor any check writing done, by way of his bank account. The QBs ledger isn't really all that important. If Joey was killed for profit, better for Chase to write one big check before Joey's absence is discovered. If Chase had access to all Joey's finances he might even have been able to get someone to impersonate Joey and drain the bank account that way.

20K when you are expecting that in payment anyway, is a weird reason to kill someone.

 

[Force Ten]

There has been some serious confusion about all of this "vendor list" stuff.

I didn't get screenshots, I will do that later when I actually get to watch it again, but I did make these notes:

Backend user custom account info shows the username (eipcustom) and the email ([email protected])… West testifies that those would be needed to verify the account.

Backend user contact account info shows username (eipjd) and the email ([email protected])

CUSTOM ACCOUNT - billing started in January 2008 - separate from contact account

CONTACT ACCOUNT - billing started in September 2005 - separate from custom account.
​

These 2 accounts were absolutely 2 SEPARATE accounts. They had different user names, different emails, and different subscriptions... they also had 2 different vendor lists. During testimony, they showed those lists. The contact one had Charles Merritt and Idesign. But the custom one only had 4, which included the new charles merritt and msm one's. IMO the thought that Chase or whoever didn't need to add Charles Merritt to the vendor list because it already existed is no longer a valid argument.

Give me a few minutes and I will see if I can find them in the testimony and take snips.

Separate or not, it doesn't explain or excuse Merritt's actions. How is not a valid argument? Chase had no business writing himself checks. And backdating. And deleting.

 

[JMarsh]

The Custom account was only used for a running balance on the business, NOT to print checks from. That's been repeated over and over again from the stand. Like your standard book keeping ledger that you reconcile you debits, credits, etc, etc. The Contact account had everything paid in and out, business and personal. Once again, as stated on the stand.

Yes and it has also been asserted that Joey and Chase were embarking on a new method by which Chase was going to receive checks.