CA - Joey, Summer, Gianni, Joseph Jr McStay Murders - Feb 4th 2010 #6

[Tortoise]

I've never mentioned any drug use.

I adjusted my post to say gambling.

 

[Force Ten]

And stating where information can be found IS backing up a claim. I'm not required to watch the trial for someone, am I?

I told @forceten where the support for my claims was.

LOL stating it can be found in the trial is like saying "The food was fantastic. You're interested what I ate and where on Tuesday night? Well, you can find it on the internet, its there."

 

[Bernina]

Yes and it has also been asserted that Joey and Chase were embarking on a new method by which Chase was going to receive checks.

By WHO? Chase?

NOT even going to go there. If that was true, Patrick McStay would have been contacted BEFORE something like that was decided. He LEGALLY owned part of the company.

 

[katydid23]

ohhhhh I bet they were talking about the calls AFTER Feb 4th (how many of the calls of CM calling JM went to VM) When I get to that part, I will take note of the time, I listened for a few minutes before and didn't hear anything about phone records.

Maybe. but why would the defense object so strenuously to noting that JM didnt answer the calls after the 4th?

 

[JMarsh]

I adjusted my post to say gambling.

I don't recall what you are talking about. This feels like harassment at this point. I'm going to focus on topics on this forum that interest me. If there is a problem with something I've posted bring it to the attention of a moderator and they can delete it. If I goofed, I have no issue with my comment being deleted. I'm enjoying this discussion, I don't see any cause for bullying. If you don't like what I'm saying, scroll on dear!

 

[katydid23]

Yes and it has also been asserted that Joey and Chase were embarking on a new method by which Chase was going to receive checks.

Who asserted that 'they' were embarking on a new method? The guy who was creating checks to himself and immediately deleting them? The guy who tried to cancel the online records? The guy who was the only one alive who could corroborate it?

Why would Joey create this 'new, illogical accounting method?'

Attributing it to DK makes no sense because DK had no administrative privileges to see into those accounts.

 

[Bernina]

Good question. It might be that he simply messed up in a big way and thought he could clean it up without much disruption to his life. Showing restraint became part of the plan. A spur of the moment fit of anger resulting in Joey's death, necessitating cleanup of the family. He wasn't planning on stealing everything. If he had been, he could have done it with one check on February 1st. Cash it and run. Money was not directly the motive. It was incidental.

Maybe because Chase only had the password/login for the Custom account. His first round of making/deleting checks was just to see if worked on the Custom account.

 

[Tortoise]

The thing that needs to be factored into this, is that Chase was not the only person in Joey's life who gambled and incurred some life-hiccups because of this.

When attempting to figure out what another person, who is not us, would do, we have to examine THEIR pattern of behaviour, not rely solely on our own.

This isn't about what we would do, it's about what Joey would do.

Like who?

I'm wondering the same thing.

This is not bullying, it's asking for a link to your assertion in the above post.

 

[Mica]

This is one of those instances where you will have to do your own research. But it is important to look at Joey's life. Who did he love? What were his choices? And further to this, where is the proof that Joey had any intention of firing Chase? So far, not one witness has been presented to support this claim?

Not McGyver.
Not the mother.
Not the brother.
Not Joe Sequieda.

No one has stated that Joey told them that he intended on firing Chase.

Not the father either.


Snip

P. MCSTAY: The last year, Joey had talked about the quality of some of that's not because it slipped. And Joey wasn't happy with that. He was upset.

KAYE: Blaming Chase at that point.

P. MCSTAY: Yes, absolutely, because he was getting complaints.

KAYE: So many complaints, Joseph was questioning if Chase should be a part of his business at all.

P. MCSTAY: Joey discussed with me about in getting another welder.

KAYE: Cutting Chase out.

P. MCSTAY: Well not virtually cutting him out, giving him some competition.


CNN.com - Transcripts

 

[katydid23]

There has been some serious confusion about all of this "vendor list" stuff.

I didn't get screenshots, I will do that later when I actually get to watch it again, but I did make these notes:

Backend user custom account info shows the username (eipcustom) and the email ([email protected])… West testifies that those would be needed to verify the account.

Backend user contact account info shows username (eipjd) and the email ([email protected])

CUSTOM ACCOUNT - billing started in January 2008 - separate from contact account

CONTACT ACCOUNT - billing started in September 2005 - separate from custom account.
​

These 2 accounts were absolutely 2 SEPARATE accounts. They had different user names, different emails, and different subscriptions... they also had 2 different vendor lists. During testimony, they showed those lists. The contact one had Charles Merritt and Idesign. But the custom one only had 4, which included the new charles merritt and msm one's. IMO the thought that Chase or whoever didn't need to add Charles Merritt to the vendor list because it already existed is no longer a valid argument.

Give me a few minutes and I will see if I can find them in the testimony and take snips.

I believe that ForceTen already understands that there are two separate accounts. I think that the point he was making was there was no reason for Joey to ask Chase to add himself as a vendor in the Custom account and begin writing himself checks. And even less reason to delete and backdate them, especially the ones he printed and cashed.

It is a valid argument to say there was no need to add charles merritt to the vendor list, in my opinion, because there was no reason for Joey to write those checks from the custom account. JMO

 

[JMarsh]

Not the father either.


Snip

P. MCSTAY: The last year, Joey had talked about the quality of some of that's not because it slipped. And Joey wasn't happy with that. He was upset.

KAYE: Blaming Chase at that point.

P. MCSTAY: Yes, absolutely, because he was getting complaints.

KAYE: So many complaints, Joseph was questioning if Chase should be a part of his business at all.

P. MCSTAY: Joey discussed with me about in getting another welder.

KAYE: Cutting Chase out.

P. MCSTAY: Well not virtually cutting him out, giving him some competition.


CNN.com - Transcripts

Good find. That's what it seems like. That Chase may not have been perfect, but Joey seems like someone who didn't give up easily on people. His mother said he and Summer were going into counseling to work on their marriage. I believe his first wife left him, not the other way around. Joey continued to care for his son from his first marriage. Joey's friendships seem long term. And my sense is, even if Joey had issues with Chase, he would choose to work on them, before giving up. Plus there is no indication that Joey was interviewing other welders.

This may even be the reason for the change in Quickbooks set up. It might be that Joey was weaning Chase off from his account, and getting Chase to have his own desktop account completely separate from Joey's.

 

[katydid23]

Even if that is true, which I am no longer convinced that it is-it still doesn't add up to murder. Where is the evidence linking Chase to any act of murder?

The trial is only about 1/3 of the way through the state's case. This fraudulent check cashing is building the foundation for the motive. It is a necessary brick in the wall, imo.

It does 'link' him to the murders because it shows us that Chase would have a strong reason to want Joey to disappear if in fact, Chase was embezzling from the business.

 

[katydid23]

Good find. That's what it seems like. That Chase may not have been perfect, but Joey seems like a long term friend, husband. His mother said he and Summer were going into counseling to work on their marriage. I believe his first wife left him, not the other way around. Joey continued to care for his son from his first marriage. Joey's friendships seem long term. And my sense is, even if Joey had issues with Chase, he would choose to work on them, before giving up. Plus there is not indication that Joey was interviewing other welders.

This may even be the reason for the change in Quickbooks set up. It might be that Joey was weening Chase off from his account, and getting Chase to have his own desktop account completely separate from Joey's.

If so, wouldn't he give Chase a log in username and password?

I think that statement from Patrick is damning for Chase. Joey was complaining about the quality of work and discussed with his father, the need for hiring other welders.

That may have angrily triggered Chase, as he knew a lot of lucrative deals were coming in. JMO

 

[katydid23]

Some of it is from Thursday, some from the beginning of testimony on Day 18, some from the end of his testimony on Day 18 part 2, IIRC. It was little tidbits here and there. I found it interesting that Schroeder went back over the weekend and reviewed the printer spool (?).

However, if it was 'sent to print' and waiting to do so, I don't think it is that revealing if something did or didn't finish the process and actually print.

We already know that several of those created checks were cashed. So he did plan of them being printed. If other things didnt print for some reason or other, I am not sure what that proves. JMO

 

[Bernina]

For anyone that cares to look at the actual testimony about the vendor lists, it starts at 14:00. There were 26 pages of contacts for the Contact side. One page with 4 vendors on the Custom side (screenshot attached)

Originally it was just EIP Jobs and SDGE.....what is SDGE (I doubt it's San Diego Gas and Electric), and why would Metro Sheet Metal and CM NEED to be added? EIP Jobs would be all encompassing, the work product from start to finish. That would include ALL sub cons, material, freight, etc, etc.

 

[Plo_Koon]

This is not bullying, it's asking for a link to your assertion in the above post.

I also am wondering who else in Joey's life was behind on their rent AND had a gambling issue as well as prior conman practices.

 

[katydid23]

Not the father either.


Snip

P. MCSTAY: The last year, Joey had talked about the quality of some of that's not because it slipped. And Joey wasn't happy with that. He was upset.

KAYE: Blaming Chase at that point.

P. MCSTAY: Yes, absolutely, because he was getting complaints.

KAYE: So many complaints, Joseph was questioning if Chase should be a part of his business at all.

P. MCSTAY: Joey discussed with me about in getting another welder.

KAYE: Cutting Chase out.

P. MCSTAY: Well not virtually cutting him out, giving him some competition.


CNN.com - Transcripts

I think this is pretty damning towards Chase. It shows us that Joey, in spite of his laid back, generous attitude, was finally realizing that Chase was doing shoddy work. Joey had begun thinking of hiring another welder.

Giving Chase 'some competition' would have triggered him in a very bad way, in my opinion. Chase felt like he was 'Joeys best friend' and his 'business partner.' He relied heavily on Joey for work because his own design business was failing die to horrendous consumer complaints and horrible online reviews, even lawsuits.

So right when all of the new lucrative work was about to roll in, Joey may have warned Chase that his shoddy work was forcing Joey to add another welder to his force. That comment would be like throwing a lit match onto a puddle of gasoline. JMO

 

[Force Ten]

And my sense is, even if Joey had issues with Chase, he would choose to work on them, before giving up. Plus there is no indication that Joey was interviewing other welders.

He was outsourcing MSM and Joe Sequieda was their main welder fabricating the fountains. Chase it seems was no longer his welder.

 

[katydid23]

This is one of those instances where you will have to do your own research. But it is important to look at Joey's life. Who did he love? What were his choices? And further to this, where is the proof that Joey had any intention of firing Chase? So far, not one witness has been presented to support this claim?

Not McGyver.
Not the mother.
Not the brother.
Not Joe Sequieda.

No one has stated that Joey told them that he intended on firing Chase.

However, we do know that Joey had been receiving a lot of complaints about Chase and his shoddy work.

And he had discussed with his father, hiring another welder on.,

And we do know that Joey had covered some of the cash that Chase was supposed to pay for supplies, that Joey had already given him money for.

And we do know that Summer strongly disapproved of Chase. And vice versa.

And we do know that Joey had some very big, difficult jobs about to be contracted.

And we do know that on the 2nd, Chase cashed a check that he himself created, and he forged his bosses signature to do so.


So how long before Joey would have made the decision to distance himself from Chase? He had just finally done so with DK. Maybe Chase realized that he was next?

In Chases's earliest accounting of the lunch meeting with Joey, he told others that he and Joey had an argument, but then smoothed things over. I think that was an accurate account. I think Joey had finally confronted Chase with these issues. JMO

 

[Alisajo]

He was outsourcing MSM and Joe Sequieda was their main welder fabricating the fountains. Chase it seems was no longer his welder.

JMO The welding would be the bigger job out of the 3 welding/electrics/plumbing, JMO.

Does anyone know if Chase was under contract (in a written form), with Joey?