CA - Joey, Summer, Gianni, Joseph Jr McStay Murders - Feb 4th 2010 #7

[mrjitty]

Chase may not have 'posted' anything in his own name, that we know of at that time. But he is a grifter and a long time conman. If he wanted to plant a few rumors, he certainly knows how to do so.

Didn't he post comments directly on an article about the case?

 

[mrjitty]

The fact that they couldn't find his 6 week old DNA on the passenger door, therefore the conclusion is he is lying, even the State didn't try to say that today. They didn't ask the witness why it wasn't there... why do you suppose that is?

Well that is the whole point. The witness shall not speculate. Instead we simply note that no forensic corroboration was found for the claim chase road in the passenger seat

 

[katydid23]

That doesn't matter. Chase is not on trial for being a passenger in the Trooper, he is on trial for murder. And the state contends that part of the evidence that Chase is the killer is that he drove the Trooper to the border. And the proof that he drove the Trooper to the border is that minor and trace amounts of his DNA are found on the driver's side of the vehicle.

If the state can't prove Chase drove that Trooper, they have no case.

I am trying to understand this. If Joey drove that car every day for a year, and Chase just drove it that one time, wouldn't we expect that Joey would be the major contributor, and Chase a minor?

 

[katydid23]

Didn't he post comments directly on an article about the case?

Yes, a few times.

But we were also speaking about how all of the bad rumors about Summer got going. And those started way before the bodies were found, and before Chase was posting, in his own name.

 

[A lucas]

It seems it is worth leading our poor old Circumstantial pack horse once more to the trough

The key thing to remember is that each point of circumstantial evidence does not prove the case one way or the other. And we ought to resist the temptation to speculate each point away. Especially DNA cannot prove 100% whether CM drove the Trooper or not.

But whose case does the DNA evidence support (if anyone's)?

If I were a Judge, the first thing I would note is that we don't have any reliable evidence that Chase was ever a passenger in the trooper. We have only a bare statement from him pre-trial, which is not subject to cross examination or testing. It needs to be tested given what the prosecution now know. Further the forensics don't provide any support for the idea. There could be good reasons why this is, but the Court's role is not to speculate. So we say merely that the DNA does not corroborate it, and infer nothing more. So personally I would not give any weight to the idea of Chase as passenger unless he testifies.

On the other hand, the DNA can support the idea of Chase as driver. Something Chase himself denies ever happened.

But I do think that is the best we can say about it.

Transfer DNA is possible, but there is no way the defence can prove that happened, or that it is more likely.

I think that is broadly where we are. The DNA is nowhere near slam dunk evidence. But it does have some probative value IMO, having regard to other evidence in the case.

I wonder if there is any way of getting cell phone ping data from the day of the paintball event? It’s probably way too late but if they could retrieve it it could show whether they travelled/pinged together on the journey to paintball place or separately there and back?

 

[katydid23]

Right, but if that is believable for him to be driving the vehicle, is it not also believable that if the defense uses what they said in their OS's, that they shook hands (Joey's right hand), Joey gets in the truck (using his left hand to open the door), grabs the steering wheel with his right hand, and then puts the vehicle into gear again with his right hand... THIS would leave transfer DNA.

I mean, this criminalist just said the same thing in testimony... so either he is making it up too... or it's a believable theory. JMO

Ok, but here's what I don't get. If Joey is the main contributor, Summer 2nd, and then 3rd is Chase, as a minor---and if it is just 'trace /touch' from shaking Chase's and----does that mean that JOEY drove the car to the border?

If someone else was the last to drive, wouldn't that slight minor trace from Chase be gone, and over ridden by the last driver?

 

[katydid23]

Who deleted them?

I think Chase deleted them. JMO

 

[mrjitty]

Ok, but here's what I don't get. If Joey is the main contributor, Summer 2nd, and then 3rd is Chase, as a minor---and if it is just 'trace /touch' from shaking Chase's and----does that mean that JOEY drove the car to the border?

If someone else was the last to drive, wouldn't that slight minor trace from Chase be gone, and over ridden by the last driver?

it doesn't really work like that.

We'd expect to find lots of traces of Joey as he was the main user of the vehicle including on the day of his death

If the killer wore gloves (as I am sure they did) then we don't find direct contact DNA. IMO its actually not surprising.

However as @oceanblueeyes points out DNA can be pesky. e.g if the killers gloves were not clean, he could have transferred his own DNA

Assuming it must be "transfer DNA" from Joey to the car is where you risk turning speculation into fact.

 

[mrjitty]

I wonder if there is any way of getting cell phone ping data from the day of the paintball event? It’s probably way too late but if they could retrieve it it could show whether they travelled/pinged together on the journey to paintball place or separately there and back?

If I understood @Texas Red correctly - it is too late to get the mast ping data

All we are getting is the mast info off actual connections - e.g a call.

 

[Niner]

Wednesday, February 20th:
*Trial continues (Day 21) (@ 9:30am PT) - CA - McStay Family: Joseph (40), Summer (43), Gianni (4) & Joey Jr (3) (Feb. 4, 2010, Fallbrook; found Nov. 11, 2013) - *Charles "Chase" Ray Merritt (57/now 60) arrested (11/5/14) & indicted (11/7/14) of 4 counts of murder with special circumstance; plead not guilty. DP case.
12 jurors & 6 alternates were finalized on Tuesday (12/11/18). 8 women & 4 men, while the alternates include 4 men & 2 women. Trial started 1/7/19. Dark on Fridays.
Skipping Day 1 (1/7/19) thru 6 (1/15/19) – reference post #1180 here: CA - Joey, Summer, Gianni, Joseph Jr McStay Murders - Feb 4th 2010 #2
Skipping Day 7 (1/16/19) thru 11 (1/24/19) – reference post #1119 here: CA - Joey, Summer, Gianni, Joseph Jr McStay Murders - Feb 4th 2010 #3
Skipping Day 12 (1/28/19) thru 14 (1/31/19) - Reference post #217 here: CA - Joey, Summer, Gianni, Joseph Jr McStay Murders - Feb 4th 2010 #5
Skipping Day 15 (2/5/19) thru 17 (2/7/19) - reference post #648 here: CA - Joey, Summer, Gianni, Joseph Jr McStay Murders - Feb 4th 2010 #6
2/13/19 Day 18: State witnesses: Detective Jason Schroeder continues his testimony from last Thursday, under cross examination. He analyzed two McStay computers, Merritt's iPhone & a computer from Merritt. After lunch, attorneys are arguing over a QuickBooks witness, records. Michael West, works for Intuit. Sgt. Ryan Smith being recalled. Trial starts at 11am, a juror has an appointment, continues on 2/14.
2/14/19 Day 19: Arguments without jury present. Judge will allow the State to put on the evidence with regards to closeup photos of tire tracks, inquiries about U.S. borders, references to changing identity, & screenshot of Joseph McStay's contacts & cell phone records. State witness: Detective Dan Hanke (testifying about the Feb 8 & 9 calls made to QuickBooks). Ran out of witnesses ended at about 3:15pm. Next court date is Tuesday, 2/19.
2/19/19 Day 20: State witnesses: Donald Thomas Jones, retired, Criminalist with SB County. Sgt. Ryan Baker recalled to stand. Trial ends at 3:45pm PST. Judge has an appointment. Trial continues on 2/20.

 

[jash]

For those who have followed this case for years, do you remember reports that Joey was in the habit of emailing his passwords to himself? If so, do you know who the source of this information was?

I've searched the McStay forum in the 'basement' and found a number of posts that reference this "fact", but not the source.

 

[JMarsh]

For those who have followed this case for years, do you remember reports that Joey was in the habit of emailing his passwords to himself? If so, do you know who the source of this information was?

I've searched the McStay forum in the 'basement' and found a number of posts that reference this "fact", but not the source.

It was in the Baker book.

 

[JMarsh]

I will refer you to my last post LOL No one said there was NO DNA... it was there. Just not Chase's.

There is no criminal good info to be able to wipe their own DNA off and leave everyone else's. JMO? lol

The Avery case!!! We learned a lot about DNA there.

 

[JMarsh]

I'm not so sure about this. No, Chase is not on trial for being a passenger. But there is certainly a line of thought that says that when confronted about the possibility of LE finding some trace of him in the vehicle in general, he would need to make it known that he had been in the Trooper in a legitimate capacity. Hence, a story about how he went somewhere with Joey not long ago.

I also don't think the state necessarily has to prove that Chase drove the Trooper, only that it would be likely to conclude that he did drive it to the border based on various sets of evidence -DNA, phone ping patterns, etc. This is all part of proving that he did the murder.

Maybe I am off base, but that's my thinking on it.

We haven't heard the phone ping evidence yet. so that I don't know about. But there is a picture on line of Joey and Chase geared up to go paintballing, so we know they did this, or at least dressed for it once.

The DNA in the Trooper, because of where it is found, and where it wasn't, to me, does seem more consistent with transfer DNA than it does with direct contact-but we may never know this with absolute certainty-so that will be up to the jury.

I don't find anything odd about Chase getting a ride with Joey to play paintball. People often consolidate vehicles if they are going someplace together, from a place where they have met up first. If Joey was in the habit of driving to Chase's home when they went to play paintball, it makes perfect sense to me that they would then take a vehicle to the game together. And the Trooper seems like a logical vehicle to take.

 

[Tortoise]

Or it was transfer DNA from meeting with Chase hours previously.

Do you not see the weakness in this argument?

As you're trying to see this as a juror, do you think it likely that Joey drove the Trooper to the border? And on the basis that the freshest DNA on a surface will be that which is available for collection, that he drove it to the border within minutes of having touched something of Chase's before he had a chance to wash his hands or do anything else?

Where is the DNA of the person who did drive it if it wasn't Chase and it wasn't Joey? Did they manage to drive the Trooper for hundreds of miles without leaving anything behind at all?

All Chase had to do was yawn (if he took it there on the 8th and had been at the house at 2 am I wouldn't be surprised he'd be yawning) and a fine spray of saliva would be enough to contaminate the steering wheel and then a gloved hand after he got in the vehicle.

I'm struggling to see why anyone who is looking at the evidence in a non-biased manner would reject the most plausible explanation for how Chase's DNA got there, and favour an explanation that requires an unproven contact with Chase and ignores the lack of a.n.other murderer's DNA, since Joey most likely did not drive it to the border.

JMO

 

[JMarsh]

Something to keep in mind with DNA is that we have more in common with each other, DNA-wise, than we have differences. DNA testing is about distinguishing what makes us all different. And the 16 markers that are the standard for testing here in the states, indicate areas of DNA where scientists found that DNA differed most from person to person.

 

[Plo_Koon]

That is an excellent point. Also how does one leave DNA and no fingerprints?

With a rag.

 

[oceanblueeyes]

Right, but if that is believable for him to be driving the vehicle, is it not also believable that if the defense uses what they said in their OS's, that they shook hands (Joey's right hand), Joey gets in the truck (using his left hand to open the door), grabs the steering wheel with his right hand, and then puts the vehicle into gear again with his right hand... THIS would leave transfer DNA.

I mean, this criminalist just said the same thing in testimony... so either he is making it up too... or it's a believable theory. JMO

Morning all!

OT: grrr, it's taken me all morning to get back on WS around 8.. it dropped me and kept timing out. Lol

But what if he didn't use his right hand?

The only way to verify they ever shook hands that day is for the DT to produce footage of when it supposedly happened, or an eye witness who came forward right after CM said the meeting occurred, and was an eye witness to the handshake when it happened.

Other than that, it is typical DT routine fodder, trying to come up with something to excuse CMs DNA being found on the driver's side of a vehicle he said he had never driven.

CMs DNA should NOT have been found where it was located, but it WAS.

Which is totally consistent with the other state's evidence.

As you know, CE is not considered in a vacuum, piece by piece,and then set aside never considered ever again. Quite the opposite will happen.

No one else's DNA was found, other than family members the vehicle belong to, YET the very man, who is now on trial for murdering them all his DNA is found??? Another mere coinkydink? Imo, no way.

Sooner or later after trying to convince the jury that 100s of coincidences happened in this case, the DT are going to run out of a massive amount of conincidental excuses they already want the jury to believe.

The main takeaway from this testimony yesterday is, CMs DNA shouldn't have been found anywhere on the driver's side of a murdered man's personal vehicle, but it was found there, and in several places that points much more to him being a driver of this vehicle.

The same vehicle we know was placed at the border after the murder, so the jury knows already someone else drove it afterward to the border, and now they know who's DNA was found in this vehicle.

It's not that hard for them on how to consider this evidence they now know, because they are already aware the dead man's vehicle was driven to the border.

Yet, who's DNA was found in that same vehicle that did not belong to the victims? Yep, out of all other's it was CMs DNA found in areas that shows he was never as passenger, but is totally consistent with CM being a driver.

The same vehicle he has always said he never drove. Yet, in the places where his DNA was found it is supporting evidence he lied when saying he never drove this vehicle.

Imo

 

[Cricket28]

Didn't he post comments directly on an article about the case?

Yes he did. It was the Dailymail article. He posted comments with the ID Icare.
I had them saved on my old computer that completely died on me a few years ago.

MOO

 

[missy1974]

Omg ws's was down this morning so I went to work hahaha I will have to catch up with posts when I get home, but for everyone commenting on the DNA..... watch the testimony from yesterday, some of it is very weak IMO as for what I believe...it doesn't really matter in the end, however, even Jones said yesterday that DNA ONLY tells us that it's there, not how it got there. If Chase was the last person that Joey had contact with before driving the trooper for the last time, I think transfer DNA is a possibility. I don't think the kid's DNA was looked for, Jones assumed that Joey' s and summer's was there. Again...you need to hear the testimony. JMO