CA - Joey, Summer, Gianni, Joseph Jr McStay Murders - Feb 4th 2010 #9

[ThorJanus]

Did CM murder the Mc Stay family? OR is the tapes more proof of confirmation bias? I can't wait for the CJ testimony. Confirmation Bias Law and Legal Definition | USLegal, Inc.

 

[oceanblueeyes]

Yes, I’m aware of the postings but then why did the detective “place devices,” if the phones and visitation rooms are routinely recorded?

Wasnt he trying to talk where he couldnt be heard...like mouthing the words etc? I wonder if he tried to spell it out somehow?

We have to remember this old career conman knew all about the going ons inside of jails since he has been a jail inmate himself several times before this.

This was probably the way some of the inmates communicated without being heard, and recorded.

Imo

 

[missy1974]

Depends...if she only went the once or more often. If these recording devices were only planted the one time, because they suspected he might say something to her about her testimony, then it sounds to me as if she didn't go that often.

hmmm we only have the tweets to go by for now. But it "sounds" like they noticed that he was doing this and then recorded... which then leads me to believe she had been there ... I am going to skip yesterday's testimony and listen to this first when it comes out LOL

 

[mom2chloe]

Ocean look at the latest tweets, he's tried to influence Cathy Jarvis' testimony through the glass.

Awesome! Maybe additional charges of witness tampering and/or intimidating a witness?

 

[missy1974]

Wasnt he trying to talk where he couldnt be heard...like mouthing the words etc? I wonder if he tried to spell it out somehow?

We have to remember this old career conman knew all about the going ons inside of jails since he has been a jail inmate himself several times before this.

This was probably the way some of the inmates communicated without being heard, and recorded.

Imo

Mouthing the words is not going to produce audio though LOL

 

[oceanblueeyes]

Some people are stuck on stupid. Just knowing what his past crimes are, she should have cut bait a long time ago, regardless of the children.

Many times when people are on the inside looking out their perception can be very skewed.

But once they are on the outside looking in they can see things much clearer than they ever had before.

I think Cathy's eyes are wide open now, no longer clouded by their relationship which has been over for many years.

I think she will be like other exes who are often key witnesses for the state in murder cases.

She has been released from her own personal emotional bondage she was in for years.

Imo

 

[Plo_Koon]

Basically there is only one thing the DA has to show, convincingly, in order to get a conviction: The DA has to tie or connect Merritt to the act of murder.

Not to gambling, or bad money management, or even fraud, but to the act of murdering this family.

That can be done by connecting him to the means, i.e. the murder weapon. OR the crime scene at the time it is believed that the family was murdered, for example the home, on February 4. OR to the location where the bodies were buried.

So let me ask you this, what evidence, so far, conclusively ties Chase Merritt to the act of murder?

Not just the possibility that he could have murdered, but to any thing definitive that shows, beyond a reasonable doubt, that Chase murdered this family?

But you didn't answer the poster's original question

 

[oceanblueeyes]

Mouthing the words is not going to produce audio though LOL

Lol that's true.

Maybe he was trying to whisper hoping it wouldn't be loud enough to be picked up.

The important thing is we will know all about it soon. Yippee!

 

[citygirl]

Many times when people are on the inside looking out their perception can be very skewed.

But once they are on the outside looking in they can see things much clearer than they ever had before.

I think Cathy's eyes are wide open now, no longer clouded by their relationship which has been over for many years.

I think she will be like other exes who are often key witnesses for the state in murder cases.

She has been released from her own personal emotional bondage she was in for years.

Imo

And a huge leap for her. She must have loved and believed in him. They had 3 children together. What a heart breaker. A real nightmare. JMO.
Really interesting that his siblings walked out of the court room. Did this take them by surprise?

 

[Tortoise]

Lol that's true.

Maybe he was trying to whisper hoping it wouldn't be loud enough to be picked up.

The important thing is we will know all about it soon. Yippee!

I bet that will get the reporters off their backsides.

 

[mom2chloe]

And a huge leap for her. She must have loved and believed in him. They had 3 children together. What a heart breaker. A real nightmare. JMO.
Really interesting that his siblings walked out of the court room. Did this take them by surprise?

And hell hath no fury like a woman scorned! If she believed or even possibly suspected CM guilty of the McStay murders, that would be her sincere incentive to get this evidence. Go Cathy!

 

[JMarsh]

I'm still so puzzled how this all went down at first.

99 percent of all the missing person cases I've seen on crime channels or followed here, the first thing the investigators did is obtain a SW to search through all of their bank accounts, and the latest activity on all of them. They continued to monitor them to see if there is any activity after the date they disappeared. Did they do this when they suddenly disappeared?

So if all of them were able to get SWs this police department could have too. It's like they didn't even try.

All of the other investigators were able to get probable cause for those search warrants, and at the time, they had no idea either if the people were willingly missing, even thinking it was a possibilty at the time they had left willingly. But they didnt rule anything out because the missing persons hadn't been located so there was no way for them to know what had really happened.

The 100K still in the bank sitting dormant should have sent off big red flags.

There were so many suspicious things found inside, and outside the home, that would have given them enough probable cause to get any SWs. Many LE have been able to obtain countless SWs with much less to go on.

Ita! The first police department failed miserably to do their job, and didn't really investigate it like it deserved to be.

Imo

Yes. I think you are right. San Diego did get search warrants at the start. Four, to be exact. And I always felt that Dugal wanted to do more, but was stopped for some reason. But that is speculation on my part. I really don't know.

I agree with you, they could have done more. And had they at least done a little presumptive testing with something like luminol, at that time; had they gotten more of the surveillance from the neighbor and from the border; and explored more possibilities as to what happened to the family, early on, there might be theories that could have been ruled out--like, if there was violence that left blood, in the home.

But I do see the challenges LE was facing with this as being pretty immense.

If this had been solely a case of missing children, or if there was a history where the children could be viewed as being potentially endangered by the parents, there might have been more probable cause for additional warrants.

But adults are legally allowed to vanish. There is no law against this. And therefore adults who go missing maintain there rights to privacy.

And these children were not of school age, so technically speaking, Joey and Summer were in their rights to disappear with their kids-and no one really had the right to legally interfere. I read the protocol on this for California, and San Diego went beyond what they were required to do. So we may be looking at a need for some amendments to the law around this type of thing.

 

[JMarsh]

Well, at least now we'll have time to finish listening to the audios from yesterday and the day before (and not have more catching up to do before the stream comes back tomorrow ).

I like the way you think. I was a little relieved as well. Audio only, actually takes more focus for me. I'm having to create my own visuals and map out the pings myself.

 

[JMarsh]

This is possibly the closest evidence they have to a smoking gun, IMO. Now I wonder if Cathy turned state’s witness? Could she have been his helper? I always felt this crime was committed by more than one person. But the DA says differently...

Or maybe he just didn't want her talking about his gambling. Every time the DA has come up with some "explosive" new evidence it has ended up either being around the gambling issue or it has been a dud, like the "changing identity" pictures that are really just a news item about the McStays.

To me, it seems pretty desperate on the part of the DA to be getting recordings of this type now. We are really far into this, for this to be new evidence.

 

[JMarsh]

I knew it! She is the key to EVERYTHING. NO DOUBT. Bet L&C wishes they hadn't pulled their cameras. What an idiot to think he could get around the recording system.

Or this is once again, nothing.

 

[Tortoise]

The audio is up

 

[JMarsh]

I tend to be pessimistic when it comes to the power of "just folks" to invoke any sort of meaningful change, but must admit that sometimes, being "vocal" about it, in a professional, non-hysterical way, can work wonders! A follow-up "Thanks for listening, we appreciate you" is also powerful stuff.

The power of "just folks" is huge. I've seen it at work enough times to know that if you nudge, politely, and especially if the nudge is collective, sometimes you can get things moving in the direction you want-when it otherwise seemed impossible. But being respectful of the party being approached, is important.

 

[Mica]

The audio is up

Thanks Tortoise.

 

[JMarsh]

Did CM murder the Mc Stay family? OR is the tapes more proof of confirmation bias? I can't wait for the CJ testimony. Confirmation Bias Law and Legal Definition | USLegal, Inc.

Good point.

I could be surprised, but so far every time the DA has wanted to bring something like this in, it sounds damning at first, and then it turns out to be on the level of innuendo and gossip. It's a little late in the day for Cathy Jarvis to become center piece to this case, unless, she actually does know something.

I'm placing a friendly bet that what Jarvis will testify to is Chase's gambling habits. The gambling is really all the DA has left, it seems. Now that the ping evidence is pretty much a wash.

But we'll see. I could absolutely be wrong and very surprised. And sometimes I wonder if the defense objects this way to preempt the impact of this type of testimony.

At the very least, it will increase viewership. So that's good.

 

[citygirl]

Or maybe he just didn't want her talking about his gambling. Every time the DA has come up with some "explosive" new evidence it has ended up either being around the gambling issue or it has been a dud, like the "changing identity" pictures that are really just a news item about the McStays.

To me, it seems pretty desperate on the part of the DA to be getting recordings of this type now. We are really far into this, for this to be new evidence.

Have been waiting for your response. Would the DT really be worried about her comments on gambling? And you deem this latest news as desperate on the DA's part? I disagree. I think this is big.