CA - Joey, Summer, Gianni, Joseph Jr McStay Murders - Feb 4th 2010 #9

[Texas Red]

BBM. Think about it though. There's need for Dan or the Pros to provide proof of this. There is not one single piece that ties Dan to these murders or disappearance. All the evidence so far points to Chase Merritt either being involved or at least having knowledge that the family was permanently gone. All there is of Dan is that he requested money out of PayPal.

Even if Dan never stepped foot on a plane to Hawaii, what does it prove?

It proves that he fabricated an alibi.

 

[JMarsh]

BBM

Which makes it more tragic. How do you beat someone else's two innocent little children to death and then go home to your own...

Exactly. And it may be that nothing of that kind happened. Chase is very likely innocent. (And I used to be absolutely convinced of his guilt.)

Stop and ask yourself what hard evidence is there tying Chase to an act of murder? What real evidence-not innuendo, evidence? Can anyone name one conclusive solid piece of evidence presented so far?

The state has had almost two months to make their case. That's a long time, even with the days off. There are only so many times they can put Ryan Smith back on the stand. Where is the evidence?

 

[JMarsh]

Thanks. Who made those statements, and did they have a vested interest to embellish?

Did anyone outside of the CM family make statements confirming it to be true?

Tia

Why would an investigator embellish about that? It's possible they did, but why would they do that in a search warrant affidavit?

 

[geevee]

It proves that he fabricated an alibi.

As opposed to the alibi CM has been fabricating (no memory of the night in question yet prompting CJ to remember what he can't)? Check *created in his name, backdated and deleted from the most likely place of the murders, another nearly identical check printed, backdated, deleted and cashed the next day from RC, where he happens to live?

You have to ignore tons of evidence that leads straight to CM and imagine tons of evidence of DK having anything to do with it to buy into a scenario where DK murders the family and not CM.

ETA: *Edited a mistyped word.

 

[JMarsh]

Yes, I have. And again I don't recall anyone stating that Chase was an involved parent. I think I would remember that since Chase's actions seem to suggest otherwise.

It's in there. You missed it somehow. But it's there.

 

[missy1974]

He rode off on the pony.

I am super curious about this now LOL When they held that hearing, Dr. Rudin even said to McGee, if there is something you would like me to check, let me know lol Maybe he did? I'm trying to find it in the rewind so I can hear it myself as to why he's not testifying now. Dr. Rudin was continuing to do calculations... maybe the pros didn't like what he had to say? There seemed to be a question about the wheel base in that hearing as well.

 

[JMarsh]

Well, Chase never got in trouble with the police for leaving his baby unattended in a vehicle and afaik was never mixed up in any CPS issues. So there's that at least.

None of us know what type of parents Chase and Cathy were/are. Chase's oldest daughter seems very supportive of her father and I have only heard flattering comments about her. Seeing as Chase has not been charged with any crimes against CJ or any of his children, opinions of his parenting are irrelevant and just gossip.

I know people here are disappointed that it is now clear that CJ is not working with the pros, actually she is testifying for the defense. And we did not get our smoking gun from these recordings which I was hoping for to finally push me off the fence either way. But lashing out at CJ is kind of lame imo because everyone is assuming she is complicit and I don't think that has been proven yet at all.

Also, I might be remembering wrong, but when CJ was being interviewed by LE, weren't she and Chase separated? Wasn't he living with Mechelle at the time? If so, that is telling that CJ didn't change her story even though they were no longer together and he was living with another woman. Maybe she really is telling the truth. I think we need to hear more evidence before knowing for sure.

There are a lot of indications that Chase was involved with his kids. This doesn't mean that he was the perfect dad, but I do think that his daughter-who has been interviewed about her father-is one indicator. She is rock solid as to his innocence, and is clearly devoted. But in addition Chase does have a long record of financial problems, and no where in there is any type of failure to meet his financial burden as a father. It could be that Cathy Jarvis made the decision not to pursue money when she knew he couldn't afford to pay, but in the search warrant there is a mention of their relationship and that Chase over the years visited her and the kids.

McStayFamilyMurders: The Trial: 10/21/14 SBSW 14-1594 CJ Residence

If you only read what confirms a belief you already have, you might miss facts that point in another direction.

 

[cobalt sky]

I am super curious about this now LOL When they held that hearing, Dr. Rudin even said to McGee, if there is something you would like me to check, let me know lol Maybe he did? I'm trying to find it in the rewind so I can hear it myself as to why he's not testifying now. Dr. Rudin was continuing to do calculations... maybe the pros didn't like what he had to say? There seemed to be a question about the wheel base in that hearing as well.

Dr. Rudin isn't testifying because, to put it simply, it was clear that he was creating the science as he went along. With no documented scientific method and/or peer review to back it up. This is a good thing for the prosecution because imo Dr. Rudin would have made a terrible witness anyways and the defense would have had a field day with him. Let's hope this new one is better.

 

[Texas Red]

I am super curious about this now LOL When they held that hearing, Dr. Rudin even said to McGee, if there is something you would like me to check, let me know lol Maybe he did? I'm trying to find it in the rewind so I can hear it myself as to why he's not testifying now. Dr. Rudin was continuing to do calculations... maybe the pros didn't like what he had to say? There seemed to be a question about the wheel base in that hearing as well.

In the earlier lengthy discussion about this I expressed my concern about how the data Dr. Rudin used was manipulated in order to obtain a desired result. IMO, the judge came to the same conclusion.

 

[Bernina]

I can admit to being in denial. Had a friend accused of a crime. I supported him. He was guilty. Had blinders on. Feel awful to this day.

I think it's how you're raised, dysfunctional garbage, abandonment issues, wanting to be a part of a "unit", fighting the "good" fight, "Timmy would never do that, he's such a good church boy" denial, longtime emotional investment in an individual, general dislike for law enforcement, or being conned into believing that person, either because you WANT to, or you're gullible and naive.

I don't understand it, and I went through it with my 1st ex. Multiple felon, heroin addict. Marriage lasted 6 years, half of which he was locked up in one place or another. Domestic abuse was part of it, our daughter another, both of which made me tough it out and eventually divorce his sorry ***. He did make an attempt to kill me (again) when he got early release after the divorce, he was just a barrel of laughs that one.

Our daughter created a relationship with him a few years back. She's married and has 3 children, the oldest being 17. She knows his game and doesn't get sucked into it. Her kids are pretty astute also, they know he's full of it.
I would consider him a con of cons. His BIL (retired LE) always told him "You can't snow the snowman" when ever my ex tried to pull a fast one.

 

[katydid23]

As I had said here early on I think this prosecution was nothing more than a political stunt orchestrated by DA Ramos.

Oh come on...how do you explain the backdated and deleted checks, forged and cashed by the defendant?

 

[JMarsh]

As opposed to the alibi CM has been fabricating (no memory of the night in question yet prompting CJ to remember what he can't)? Check *created in his name, backdated and deleted from the most likely place of the murders, another nearly identical check printed, backdated, deleted and cashed the next day from RC, where he happens to live?

You have to ignore tons of evidence that leads straight to CM and imagine tons of evidence of DK having anything to do with it to buy into a scenario where DK murders the family and not CM.

ETA: *Edited a mistyped word.

But most of what you are pointing to has been debunked.

What actual proof is there that Chase was fabricating anything?

The actions on the Quickbooks are likely innocent. Chase never entered any other bank account in any other way.

And if money is the motive, Dan K apparently walked away with 250K. That's a lot more motive than 20K Chase might have paid to himself because he was actually owed that amount.

 

[JMarsh]

Dr. Rudin isn't testifying because, to put it simply, it was clear that he was creating the science as he went along. With no documented scientific method and/or peer review to back it up. This is a good thing for the prosecution because imo Dr. Rudin would have made a terrible witness anyways and the defense would have had a field day with him. Let's hope this new one is better.

Is it certain Rudin won't be testifying?

 

[geevee]

In the earlier lengthy discussion about this I expressed my concern about how the data Dr. Rudin used was manipulated in order to obtain a desired result. IMO, the judge came to the same conclusion.

The last we saw, the judge approved Rudin to testify.

 

[missy1974]

Dr. Rudin isn't testifying because, to put it simply, it was clear that he was creating the science as he went along. With no documented scientific method and/or peer review to back it up. This is a good thing for the prosecution because imo Dr. Rudin would have made a terrible witness anyways and the defense would have had a field day with him. Let's hope this new one is better.

Yep, I rewound. I am wondering if the judge didn't allow his testimony though? The judge mentions that there was no report from Dr. Rudin, said he was more than willing to talk about all the work he did and his conclusions but didn't have much actual documentation... and if there is one produced by the new guy, then they will discuss whether a 402 hearing is necessary.

It also sounded like the prosecution wanted to put Smith back on the stand to show the pics of the Faro scan and explain them. Defense filed saying they wanted a 402 in that case. Daugherty says it doesn't take an expert to compare the photo's, etc.

Might not take an expert to look at them, but it definitely takes one to say how they got to that conclusion. IMO

 

[JMarsh]

In the earlier lengthy discussion about this I expressed my concern about how the data Dr. Rudin used was manipulated in order to obtain a desired result. IMO, the judge came to the same conclusion.

Also Rudin has a product to sell. That's what his real background is in, trying to sell his software product that reconstructs crime scenes. But he doesn't appear to have sold one in awhile.

And I am always deeply suspicious of any scientist who works regularly with civilians who can't explain a concept in layman's terms, and offers to "write a formula". That's ridiculous.

 

[missy1974]

Is it certain Rudin won't be testifying?

Doesn't sound like he's testifying for the pro's ...


Maybe they will call him on the defense? haha

 

[JMarsh]

Yep, I rewound. I am wondering if the judge didn't allow his testimony though? The judge mentions that there was no report from Dr. Rudin, said he was more than willing to talk about all the work he did and his conclusions but didn't have much actual documentation... and if there is one produced by the new guy, then they will discuss whether a 402 hearing is necessary.

It also sounded like the prosecution wanted to put Smith back on the stand to show the pics of the Faro scan and explain them. Defense filed saying they wanted a 402 in that case. Daugherty says it doesn't take an expert to compare the photo's, etc.

Might not take an expert to look at them, but it definitely takes one to say how they got to that conclusion. IMO

If Immes puts Ryan Smith on the stand one more time, I demand he propose to the guy. It's almost getting humorous. I guess they feel they are winning points with the jury every time Smith is up there.

 

[katydid23]

There are a lot of indications that Chase was involved with his kids. This doesn't mean that he was the perfect dad, but I do think that his daughter-who has been interviewed about her father-is one indicator. She is rock solid as to his innocence, and is clearly devoted. But in addition Chase does have a long record of financial problems, and no where in there is any type of failure to meet his financial burden as a father. It could be that Cathy Jarvis made the decision not to pursue money when she knew he couldn't afford to pay, but in the search warrant there is a mention of their relationship and that Chase over the years visited her and the kids.

McStayFamilyMurders: The Trial: 10/21/14 SBSW 14-1594 CJ Residence

If you only read what confirms a belief you already have, you might miss facts that point in another direction.

If he had to have someone pay the rent for him while he was in jail for stealing 32k worth of tools, then he did not meet his financial burden as a father.

If his children were left to live in a busted RV in the desert, then he did not meet his financial burden as a father.

If he spend hours at a time, gambling, and took out thousands of dollars from casino ATMS, while he had very young children, home without him, he did not put his children as a priority.

 

[JMarsh]

The jailhouse tape and cj's testimony must be a bombshell if the prosecution feels they can rest so soon. Or at least l hope so!

Rest so soon? They've been going at this for almost two months.