CA - Joey, Summer, Gianni, Joseph Jr McStay Murders - Feb 4th 2010

[missy1974]

@mrjitty welcome to the forum!

 

[missy1974]

I was reading the preliminary hearing testimony again late last night, here are a few things that stood out to me after listening to testimony last week and some discussion here

State of California VS Charles Ray Merritt: Part Two - Transcript of Charles Merritt Preliminary

5 Q What conditions about the house had changed, according to
6 them?
7 A They removed all the property, any leftover property that
8 was in the residence. They changed the entire downstairs
9 flooring. Put in hardwood flooring and changed the baseboards.
10 They painted the walls in the downstairs bathroom and
11 changed the flooring to tile.
12 For the most part, that was it.
13 Q Do you know when they bought the house, or moved into the
14 house?
15 A Yes, it was roughly a year later, after the McStay family
16 went missing.​

SBSD went back to the McStay house in August 2014. I know there was some discussion about what the new owners had done in the house, so copied this There is no mention about whether they did any sort of testing, it doesn't mean it wasn't done, just not mentioned that I read.

8 A In the grave itself there was like a black nose, eyes and
9 a whisker and some padding consistent with the bathrobe that was
10 depicted in the picture with Joseph, Jr.
11 In the gravesite there was a black backpack containing
12 what was a paintbrush and looked like, maybe, like a small pick
13 or hand garden tool. These items were depicted in a photograph
14 of Gianni wearing a similar black backpack and Joseph, Jr.,
15 posing, holding the same type paintbrush.
16 Joseph McStay was wrapped in a tannish woven blanket or
17 article of cloth that had seams on it, which appeared to be
18 consistent with the cover from the futon that was missing at the
19 time they went missing, the family went missing.​

This is where they mention a small pick or garden tool, still no mention of a knife in the gravesite. Also, mention of the futon cover, which was not actually the futon cover and was a blanket.

 

[Tortoise]

I'm not au fait with all the details yet, and I can't really understand the phone call data that's been posted, but is it possible it could have gone down like this -

Joey meets CM at lunch time.
CM agrees to follow him back to Fallbrook to sort this out with the bank or look at the computers.
CM intercepts Joey before he gets home and tricks him to get out of the car, ties him up and leaves him somewhere, taking his phone and car key.
CM carries on to the McStay house.
At the house he seizes Joseph jr and holds a knife to him, to get Summer to comply.
He gets Summer to drive CM's vehicle to Joey, holding Joseph jr at knife point.
Joey is put in the vehicle too, still tied up.
He gets Summer to drive them into the desert, kills them and hides the bodies to bury later.
On a later date he drives back to Joey's car in his own car, drives Joey's car to the border, then somehow travels back to where he left his own car, maybe in a hire car under a false name he has had time to sort out.
He drives back to the desert in his own car to bury the bodies, and puts the car key in Joey's pocket.

 

[asyousay]

I'm not au fait with all the details yet, and I can't really understand the phone call data that's been posted, but is it possible it could have gone down like this -

Joey meets CM at lunch time.
CM agrees to follow him back to Fallbrook to sort this out with the bank or look at the computers.
CM intercepts Joey before he gets home and tricks him to get out of the car, ties him up and leaves him somewhere, taking his phone and car key.
CM carries on to the McStay house.
At the house he seizes Joseph jr and holds a knife to him, to get Summer to comply.
He gets Summer to drive CM's vehicle to Joey, holding Joseph jr at knife point.
Joey is put in the vehicle too, still tied up.
He gets Summer to drive them into the desert, kills them and hides the bodies to bury later.
On a later date he drives back to Joey's car in his own car, drives Joey's car to the border, then somehow travels back to where he left his own car, maybe in a hire car under a false name he has had time to sort out.
He drives back to the desert in his own car to bury the bodies, and puts the car key in Joey's pocket.

I don’t think Chase followed Joey home as Joey rung him 3 times after lunch at about 3pm I think it was. So it makes no sense for Joey to ring him if they was following each other in the car and going to the warehouse.


At the moment until I am specifically told Joey had lunch with Chase and there is proof I’m not convinced they did as why would they have a 2 hour lunch and then as soon as Joey leaves lunch he calls Chase 3 times in quick succession. That just makes zero sense after a 2 hour business lunch.

 

[Bernina]

For those who are newly joining this case, Rick Price's "blog" was seen as a diversion from the case, and I believe he and his writings were not to be referenced if I remember correctly. Someone correct me if I'm wrong, it's been a long time and I don't know how we access the WS threads from the previous OS.
Might also note that with the computer technology back in 2010, even the most experienced hacker would find it difficult to totally erase his footprints without destroying the hard drive. My brother was on the lead team who developed the "Surface" program for Microsoft and worked many years with them as an employee and private contractor on "black box" projects. I asked him back then about this......
I think the length of this trial is predicated on the DNA, cell phone, and computer technology debates.

 

[missy1974]

For those who are newly joining this case, Rick Price's "blog" was seen as a diversion from the case, and I believe he and his writings were not to be referenced if I remember correctly. Someone correct me if I'm wrong, it's been a long time and I don't know how we access the WS threads from the previous OS.
Might also note that with the computer technology back in 2010, even the most experienced hacker would find it difficult to totally erase his footprints without destroying the hard drive. My brother was on the lead team who developed the "Surface" program for Microsoft and worked many years with them as an employee and private contractor on "black box" projects. I asked him back then about this......
I think the length of this trial is predicated on the DNA, cell phone, and computer technology debates.

If that is the one I am linking to... oops lol It's the only place I was able to find the preliminary transcripts though, if anyone has another link, pls share

 

[Bernina]

If that is the one I am linking to... oops lol It's the only place I was able to find the preliminary transcripts though, if anyone has another link, pls share

LOL! I'm just waiting to see if I am correct on that "author"!

 

[asyousay]

8 A In the grave itself there was like a black nose, eyes

What does that even mean?

 

[missy1974]

I'm not au fait with all the details yet, and I can't really understand the phone call data that's been posted, but is it possible it could have gone down like this -

Joey meets CM at lunch time.
CM agrees to follow him back to Fallbrook to sort this out with the bank or look at the computers.
CM intercepts Joey before he gets home and tricks him to get out of the car, ties him up and leaves him somewhere, taking his phone and car key.
CM carries on to the McStay house.
At the house he seizes Joseph jr and holds a knife to him, to get Summer to comply.
He gets Summer to drive CM's vehicle to Joey, holding Joseph jr at knife point.
Joey is put in the vehicle too, still tied up.
He gets Summer to drive them into the desert, kills them and hides the bodies to bury later.
On a later date he drives back to Joey's car in his own car, drives Joey's car to the border, then somehow travels back to where he left his own car, maybe in a hire car under a false name he has had time to sort out.
He drives back to the desert in his own car to bury the bodies, and puts the car key in Joey's pocket.

I don't think they were killed in the home either, and something happening to Joey first and then CM taking Summer and the kids later, makes sense. The only issue I have is... then how does he find time to go back to the house and log into the computer that evening? Is there enough time between known times that Summer and Joey's phones were active, I recall that it was between 5 and 6pm that they were texting each other? So in 2 hours, he kills Joey, takes summer and the kids, kills them, goes back to the house right away? what does he do with the bodies in the mean time?

Interesting that you use a statement from DK's ex against DK in your theory... re: taking one of the kids by knife point.

For those that are more knowledgeable... were they able to place CM at the border with cell records? I was reading the preliminary hearing transcripts about the cell data, and because I'm not familiar with the area, I have no idea all the places they were talking about. Will be interesting when we get testimony about that, I want to see it on a map!

 

[missy1974]

What does that even mean?

sorry, it was in reference to the towel or bathrobe that they found... need to keep reading They found that in the gravesite as well.

 

[Bernina]

@missy1974 , CM's phone was "dark", ie, turned off, at both the Border and the Grave site.

 

[Tortoise]

I don’t think Chase followed Joey home as Joey rung him 3 times after lunch at about 3pm I think it was. So it makes no sense for Joey to ring him if they was following each other in the car and going to the warehouse.


At the moment until I am specifically told Joey had lunch with Chase and there is proof I’m not convinced they did as why would they have a 2 hour lunch and then as soon as Joey leaves lunch he calls Chase 3 times in quick succession. That just makes zero sense after a 2 hour business lunch.

If the calls were in close succession I suppose it could have been lost reception and calling back to continue the conversation, but I don't know if it was.

 

[Bernina]

sorry, it was in reference to the towel or bathrobe that they found... need to keep reading They found that in the gravesite as well.

It was from the hoodie bathrobe.

 

[asyousay]

sorry, it was in reference to the towel or bathrobe that they found... need to keep reading They found that in the gravesite as well.

Thanks

At first I assumed they found a nose and a eye and i was thinking that didn’t make any sense due to how they was skeletal when found. I couldn’t get past a eye socket laying there

 

[missy1974]

@missy1974 , CM's phone was "dark", ie, turned off, at both the Border and the Grave site.

Thanks I know they have data that places him near the gravesite, I believe on the 6th, but again, I am interested to see it on a map

 

[missy1974]

Thanks

At first I assumed they found a nose and a eye and i was thinking that didn’t make any sense due to how they was skeletal when found. I couldn’t get past a eye socket laying there

sorry

 

[Tortoise]

My notes from the prosecutor's opening speech, of the times when CM's phone was not connected to any towers.

4th Feb 5:48 pm to 9:32 pm (3.75 hours)
4th Feb reconnects at 9:32 pm then goes off again until 5th Feb 7:30 am (10 hours)
5th Feb 3:54 pm to 9:17 pm (5.5 hours)
8th Feb 7:26 am to 1:31 pm (6 hours)

 

[missy1974]

Just a reminder that court should be 9:30am PT - 4:00pm PT Monday-Thursday.

With that reminder.. I am going to go and get some things done so I will be able to watch in an hour!

 

[Tortoise]

I don't think they were killed in the home either, and something happening to Joey first and then CM taking Summer and the kids later, makes sense. The only issue I have is... then how does he find time to go back to the house and log into the computer that evening? Is there enough time between known times that Summer and Joey's phones were active, I recall that it was between 5 and 6pm that they were texting each other? So in 2 hours, he kills Joey, takes summer and the kids, kills them, goes back to the house right away? what does he do with the bodies in the mean time?

Interesting that you use a statement from DK's ex against DK in your theory... re: taking one of the kids by knife point.

For those that are more knowledgeable... were they able to place CM at the border with cell records? I was reading the preliminary hearing transcripts about the cell data, and because I'm not familiar with the area, I have no idea all the places they were talking about. Will be interesting when we get testimony about that, I want to see it on a map!

Re the knife it's the only thing that makes sense in getting parents to do whatever you ask, imo.

Yes I need to get to grips with the phone data at some point soon.

 

[Texas Red]

@missy1974 , CM's phone was "dark", ie, turned off, at both the Border and the Grave site.

Since the phone was turned off it would be impossible to determine its location.