CA - Joey, Summer, Gianni, Joseph Jr McStay Murders - Feb 4th 2010

[asyousay]

The thing about QuickBooks is that it is a cloud service

So it pretty much proves the exact time of creation and my guess is it logged the machine ID which accessed it.

I have no doubt a cheque was written then but I have doubts on how somebody killed a family of 4 in such a short space of time. The car was pulling in at 7.47 pm ( if this is wrong please let me know) so then park up , turn the engine off, get out of the car and either knock on the door or did Chase use the open window to try and get in. So then that’s probably 7.49pm by this stage dependant on how he got in. Even later if he had to crawl in though a window and not be heard.

So he has 10 minutes give or take to kill a family of 4 and then start writing out a cheque. At the moment that doesn’t add up to me imo

It sounds totally implausible that he could of pulled that off in that time frame.


ETA - I had forgotten to add Joey was very badly beaten as well. He had a broken a leg and Rib so again that took time.

 

[dak dak girl]

I'm so confused...wasnt the car pulling out at that time ?

I have no doubt a cheque was written then but I have doubts on how somebody killed a family of 4 in such a short space of time. The car was pulling in at 7.47 pm ( if this is wrong please let me know) so then park up , turn the engine off, get out of the car and either knock on the door or did Chase use the open window to try and get in. So then that’s probably 7.49pm by this stage dependant on how he got in. Even later if he had to crawl in though a window and not be heard.

So he has 10 minutes give or take to kill a family of 4 and then start writing out a cheque. At the moment that doesn’t add up to me imo

It sounds totally implausible that he could of pulled that off in that time frame.


ETA - I had forgotten to add Joey was very badly beaten as well. He had a broken a leg and Rib so again that took time.

 

[mrjitty]

I have no doubt a cheque was written then but I have doubts on how somebody killed a family of 4 in such a short space of time. The car was pulling in at 7.47 pm ( if this is wrong please let me know) so then park up , turn the engine off, get out of the car and either knock on the door or did Chase use the open window to try and get in. So then that’s probably 7.49pm by this stage dependant on how he got in. Even later if he had to crawl in though a window and not be heard.

So he has 10 minutes give or take to kill a family of 4 and then start writing out a cheque. At the moment that doesn’t add up to me imo

It sounds totally implausible that he could of pulled that off in that time frame.


ETA - I had forgotten to add Joey was very badly beaten as well. He had a broken a leg and Rib so again that took time.

I don't have answers to any of this right now - only what i was able to pull together from the Prosecutions opening. I also don't know exactly what kind of cloud service QB was in 2010 - but with cursory checking it seems QBO (Quickbooks online) was around back then. Although its nearly a decade ago, cloud stuff was already a big deal for a while - e.g. Salesforce

So the key point I take from the opening is that multiple computers could access McStay's QBO accounts - so that implies a cloud account rather than desktop. The access revealed by the prosecutor were from the McStay computer at home, the McStay laptop, and then seemingly someone from another computer using McStays login.

McStay himself accessed his QB account on the road on the 4th in between calls to his bank.

The problem about this for the defendant is that a cloud service will typically log information for each and every login for security purposes. Especially for financial services like Quick Books and online banking.

Logged info would typically be User ID, IP address, Machine ID, Operating System and Browser type and version (at least if it was browser based)

This is apparently a huge issue for the defendant.

For example, given he cashed more than one of the deleted cheques and made the call to Quickbooks to delete account - it can't be seriously denied that he is the person that was making them.

So this piece of evidence would appear to definitively place him in the McStay home at 7.56 pm on the 4th

That blows his alibi sky high

 

[dak dak girl]

And hi everyone. I have been following since 2010 but can't work out where the original thread is to be able to go back and revise . Ah...probably just me being not a technology savy person.

I have been both sides of the fence as far as CM is involved, guilty, not guilty...on the fence...and even though I've spent so many hours researching and being a slueth, and as much as I believe CM is involved, something is missing. The accomplice.

Who is it...

 

[mrjitty]

I'm so confused...wasnt the car pulling out at that time ?

Niner's timeline is pretty awesome

But I don't know if any of this stuff will change in the full trial analysis

https://www.websleuths.com/forums/threads/mcstay-family-comprehensive-timeline.285143/

 

[mrjitty]

And hi everyone. I have been following since 2010 but can't work out where the original thread is to be able to go back and revise . Ah...probably just me being not a technology savy person.

I have been both sides of the fence as far as CM is involved, guilty, not guilty...on the fence...and even though I've spent so many hours researching and being a slueth, and as much as I believe CM is involved, something is missing. The accomplice.

Who is it...

Its all back in the McStay forum.

As a latecomer there is just way too much info to get my head around - so I am just going to follow the trial and annoy the regulars with dumb questions

the tech thread alone is 63 pages

I am now looking at how obviously CM's alibi is also blown apart by the cell phone data - but i presume that has been discussed for years!

 

[Force Ten]

I have no doubt a cheque was written then but I have doubts on how somebody killed a family of 4 in such a short space of time. The car was pulling in at 7.47 pm ( if this is wrong please let me know) so then park up , turn the engine off, get out of the car and either knock on the door or did Chase use the open window to try and get in. So then that’s probably 7.49pm by this stage dependant on how he got in. Even later if he had to crawl in though a window and not be heard.

So he has 10 minutes give or take to kill a family of 4 and then start writing out a cheque. At the moment that doesn’t add up to me imo

It sounds totally implausible that he could of pulled that off in that time frame.


ETA - I had forgotten to add Joey was very badly beaten as well. He had a broken a leg and Rib so again that took time.

The vehicle was leaving at 7:47.

Chase's phone went dark at 5:48. Given the drive time and traffic, the earliest Chase could have been at the home is 7:15 which leaves him 32 min to bludgeon four people and then load them into his truck.

 

[mrjitty]

The vehicle was leaving at 7:47.

Chase's phone went dark at 5:48. Given the drive time and traffic, the earliest Chase could have been at the home is 7:15 which leaves him 32 min to bludgeon four people and then load them into his truck.

I am not sure I follow - from @Niner 's thread

Feb. 4, 7:59pm - someone used the McStay Desktop computer to create (@ 7:59pm) and delete (@ 8:05pm) a Quickbooks check for $4,000. This check was never deposited or cashed. The memo line on this check said, Paul Mitchell.

It looks like McStay must have been incapacitated much earlier in the evening and that CM is there as late as 8.05pm creating a cheque to himself, with memo line Paul Mitchell

Where do you think he was driving when he briefly reactivated his phone at 9.32pm? I am not familiar with the area

Feb. 4 at 9:32pm - CM cell pinged at Mira Loma south of Rancho Cucamonga

 

[Force Ten]

I am not sure I follow - from @Niner 's thread



It looks like McStay must have been incapacitated much earlier in the evening and that CM is there as late as 8.05pm creating a cheque to himself, with memo line Paul Mitchell

No I don't dispute the 8:05 QB. Just that the family was killed and possibly loaded into the vehicle caught on camera between 7:15-7:47. One of two things happened next, Merritt parks the vehicle and goes back in to make the check, or it is an an accomplice leaving with the vehicle on camera and Merritt is still in the home creating the check at 7:59.

 

[asyousay]

I'm so confused...wasnt the car pulling out at that time ?

I stand corrected

Feb. 4, 7:47 pm - A neighbor’s security surveillance video catches [a vehicle] leaving the street. Only the bottom portion of vehicle is visible; occupants cannot be seen. (source: http://www.utsandiego.com/news/2011/...arance-filled/ )

Feb. 4, 7:59pm - someone used the McStay Desktop computer to create (@ 7:59pm) and delete (@ 8:05pm) a Quickbooks check for $4,000. This check was never deposited or cashed. The memo line on this check said, Paul Mitchell

It was always my understanding it was caught pulling into the drive way the bottom tail end.

It makes even less sense somebody left that house and then went back to write the cheques.

 

[asyousay]

Feb. 4, 5:48pm [CM receives a call from JM. Duration is two minutes and 37 seconds.]

Feb. 4, 9:32 pm [CM's phone pings a cell tower in Rancho Cucamonga.

So for any posters who know California and rush hour traffic on a week day how long would it take from Rancho to Fallbrook?

 

[Force Ten]

So for any posters who know California and rush hour traffic on a week day how long would it take from Rancho to Fallbrook?

For that time of day 1:20-1:2o hours or 80 min. Although Chase adamantly told detectives he could be there in an hour.

 

[asyousay]

For that time of day 1:20-1:2o hours or 80 min. Although Chase adamantly told detectives he could be there in an hour.

So he would of made it by 7pm realistically but he could of got there sooner.

It’s interesting as the the time back to Rancho is also tight. I wonder what he did with th bodies as he didn’t have time to bury them if he was in the home gone 8pm writing a cheque out. He had to be back on the road home by 8.25

 

[cobalt sky]

Its all back in the McStay forum.

As a latecomer there is just way too much info to get my head around - so I am just going to follow the trial and annoy the regulars with dumb questions

the tech thread alone is 63 pages

I am now looking at how obviously CM's alibi is also blown apart by the cell phone data - but i presume that has been discussed for years!

I think you bring up excellent points, and if you consider only the prosecution's accusations, it makes sense that Chase is guilty. Here's the thing....many of us have been following this case since the family went missing almost 10 years ago, an immense amount of research and sleuthing has been done over the years. Chase is not the only shady character with shady behavior before and after the family went missing. I fear that the Chase Merritt bug was planted in LE's ear and they developed tunnel vision, not because they had it in for Chase, but because he was the "obvious suspect" with a lengthy criminal record and known pieces of the puzzle fit well enough together. My problem with this case is that I don't think enough investigation was done on others that might have been involved in some way. A silly example: 5 kids grab a cookie out of the cookie jar, only ONE gets punished for it, because he's the problem kid that is usually in trouble and mom is just too busy and tired to deal with punishing all of them.

Another silly example but bear with me: when people meet me and my son, I always get "awww....he looks so much like you!" Until later when they meet my husband, it's always "oh I thought he looked like you, but wow he REALLY looks like his dad!" I feel like I haven't been given the chance to see the "Dad" in this case. IOW, yes Chase looks guilty, but I don't feel like I can completely be comfortable that he is the guy and he is the ONLY guy unless I am 100% sure that EVERY possible suspect was completely and thoroughly investigated and cleared. And right now I'm not convinced that that was done.

At the very least, Merritt knew that something had gone down. Did he do it? Or did he just take advantage of that and stick his hand in the cookie jar? I just want to be sure that the right person(s) are punished for this crime. And I realize that I am owed nothing, and it will be the jury that decides, and I can't control what LE or how LE does or doesn't investigate. These are just my random thoughts, I have no horse in this race.

 

[Force Ten]

So he would of made it by 7pm realistically but he could of got there sooner.

It’s interesting as the the time back to Rancho is also tight. I wonder what he did with th bodies as he didn’t have time to bury them if he was in the home gone 8pm writing a cheque out. He had to be back on the road home by 8.25

Right. Joseph's phone pinged a tower in Fallbrook at 8:28. So that was either the last sign of life for JM, a pocket dial, or I theorize it might have been Merritt trying to access JM's phone and he accidentally called himself in doing so as Chase was the last person Joseph called.

 

[la2cabo]

Its all back in the McStay forum.

As a latecomer there is just way too much info to get my head around - so I am just going to follow the trial and annoy the regulars with dumb questions

the tech thread alone is 63 pages

I am now looking at how obviously CM's alibi is also blown apart by the cell phone data - but i presume that has been discussed for years!

I think it's great that you're able to look at the case from the viewpoint of a juror. So many of us have altered thinking/memories due to the many rumors and lies throughout the years. I wish I could purge my memory and start from scratch.

 

[mrjitty]

No I don't dispute the 8:05 QB. Just that the family was killed and possibly loaded into the vehicle caught on camera between 7:15-7:47. One of two things happened next, Merritt parks the vehicle and goes back in to make the check, or it is an an accomplice leaving with the vehicle on camera and Merritt is still in the home creating the check at 7:59.

Ah ok - that makes a lot of sense.

I am not so troubled by the "how" of the crime scene. I think only the "who" is important.

Though I will be very interested in the prosecutors version.

 

[asyousay]

Right. Joseph's phone pinged a tower in Fallbrook at 8:28. So that was either the last sign of life for JM, a pocket dial, or I theorize it might have been Merritt trying to access JM's phone and he accidentally called himself in doing so as Chase was the last person Joseph called.

Oh wow - great point about Chase maybe not being able to work the phone properly and accidentally called himself. That had never even occurred to me as a option.

 

[mrjitty]

It makes even less sense somebody left that house and then went back to write the cheques.

But someone did in fact write the cheques.

 

[asyousay]

But someone did in fact write the cheques.

Yes they did and the defense are going to argue that Joey wrote them. As they claim the family was alive until the following morning.

I am not saying it’s true but with the time frame being so small I think it can be argued that Chase had a accomplish as that would explain away some of the inconsistencies.