CA - Joey, Summer, Gianni, Joseph Jr McStay Murders - Feb 4th 2010

[mrjitty]

Right. Joseph's phone pinged a tower in Fallbrook at 8:28. So that was either the last sign of life for JM, a pocket dial, or I theorize it might have been Merritt trying to access JM's phone and he accidentally called himself in doing so as Chase was the last person Joseph called.

IMO the fact that someone was creating fraudulent cheques at JM's house at 7.59 pm supports a cast iron inference that JM was dead or incapacitated by that time.

I think the fact that CM lied about 'ignoring" this call is a pretty big tell.

 

[asyousay]

Some of the inconsistencies are the spare key found in Joey’s pocket.

That looks like the spare key to his car so how did the car get ditched by the Mexican boarder on the 8th but then end up in Joey’s pocket.

It’s laughable to suggest Chase dug up Joey after he had buried him to stick the key back in his pocket.

It doesn’t add up and I’m pretty thick so if I can see that I can’t imagine what a jury will think.

 

[Force Ten]

IMO the fact that someone was creating fraudulent cheques at JM's house at 7.59 pm supports a cast iron inference that JM was dead or incapacitated by that time.

I think the fact that CM lied about 'ignoring" this call is a pretty big tell.

Yes it's all pretty telling. I'm sure the prosecution will shine a large spotlight on these details.

 

[mrjitty]

Yes they did and the defense are going to argue that Joey wrote them. As they claim the family was alive until the following morning.

I am not saying it’s true but with the time frame being so small I think it can be argued that Chase had a accomplish as that would explain away some of the inconsistencies.

They may argue that but i think it is a pretty laughable contention.

 

[mrjitty]

Yes it's all pretty telling. I'm sure the prosecution will shine a large spotlight on these details.

I hope so!

I really want to get on to the hardcore evidence.

IMO the prosecution opening was not bad, but they held off on painting the big picture (presumably to wait to hear the defence opening).

As a trial strategy, I get why they need these early witnesses but I wonder if it might have been better to have some key testimony early while the jury was still hot.

 

[Force Ten]

They may argue that but i think it is a pretty laughable contention.

The defense may actually have pivotal position here. There's no way to know when Joseph was murdered. Because of the 8:28 call they could contend Joseph was still alive until then and very well wrote and deleted the check, for whatever reason.

 

[mrjitty]

The defense may actually have pivotal position here. There's no way to know when Joseph was murdered. Because of the 8:28 call they could contend Joseph was still alive until then and very well wrote and deleted the check, for whatever reason.

This is exactly why I am the guy ranting at the clouds about the proper handling of circumstantial evidence for year after year

If you look at each data point in isolation, you can indeed henpeck each single piece of evidence to death with speculation. But this is not what we learned at law school, and the jury should be properly instructed not to do so.

If you examine the entire collection of deleted cheques together, the natural and obvious conclusion is that the same person created all of them and that person can logically only be CM

But I do agree with you. The defence will engage in wild speculation, supported by absolutely no evidence, that JM created that particular one - and the Jury may fall for it.

 

[Force Ten]

This is exactly why I am the guy ranting at the clouds about the proper handling of circumstantial evidence for year after year

If you look at each data point in isolation, you can indeed henpeck each single piece of evidence to death with speculation. But this is not what we learned at law school, and the jury should be properly instructed not to do so.

If you examine the entire collection of deleted cheques together, the natural and obvious conclusion is that the same person created all of them and that person can logically only be CM

But I do agree with you. The defence will engage in wild speculation, supported by absolutely no evidence, that JM created that particular one - and the Jury may fall for it.

I do wonder if the prosecution has Chase's DNA/fingerprints on the desktop keyboard and are just holding back on revealing it.

 

[ehenson88]

But someone did in fact write the cheques.

Unless they were trying to move their vehicle away from the crime scene so it wouldn't be seen and then walk back to it

 

[mrjitty]

I do wonder if the prosecution has Chase's DNA/fingerprints on the desktop keyboard and are just holding back on revealing it.

I guess because I am late to the rodeo, I don't think this guy was clever about any of this.

Only a complete idiot steals from his employer using fraudulent cheques made out to himself as payee, and continues to do so after the murder.

Normally, the bodies turn up quick and the proper forensics got done. I think he was just super lucky the bodies didn't turn up for so long. But even dumber people have got away with even more obvious murders where the body doesn't come to light. e.g DeOrr

So yeah - I would not be surprised if he made other serious mistakes.

 

[mrjitty]

Unless they were trying to move their vehicle away from the crime scene so it wouldn't be seen and then walk back to it

Or he had the idea to go back and steal one last time.

The idea of backdating maybe didn't occur to him until later.

 

[mrjitty]

Can someone explain please what the prosecutor means about an email from JM to CM where he says he had overpaid CM by 40k?

 

[minazoe]

what if Chase sent Joey on a wild goosechase to the lunch date and actually went to the house to lie in wait for summer and the kids, knowing it would take a good deal of time for joey to make it back to the house..

or did we already rule this out?

mOO

 

[asyousay]

Joey was tortured and the question is why?

If the other deaths were sudden and quick why would you take the time to tie up Joey and beat him and then bludgeon him to death. Was the aim to get him to do something and he wouldn’t hence the torture?


Was Joey taken out of the house and taken somewhere else hence him being restrained?

 

[Force Ten]

I guess because I am late to the rodeo, I don't think this guy was clever about any of this.

Only a complete idiot steals from his employer using fraudulent cheques made out to himself as payee, and continues to do so after the murder.

Normally, the bodies turn up quick and the proper forensics got done. I think he was just super lucky the bodies didn't turn up for so long. But even dumber people have got away with even more obvious murders where the body doesn't come to light. e.g DeOrr

So yeah - I would not be surprised if he made other serious mistakes.

I think he is very intelligent actually, his welding work indicates such. But yes, lucky as hell as well.

 

[missy1974]

I do wonder if the prosecution has Chase's DNA/fingerprints on the desktop keyboard and are just holding back on revealing it.

Do they still have the desktop computer? Did they keep the keyboard?

 

[missy1974]

what if Chase sent Joey on a wild goosechase to the lunch date and actually went to the house to lie in wait for summer and the kids, knowing it would take a good deal of time for joey to make it back to the house..

or did we already rule this out?

mOO

IIRC both Chase and Joey's phone's place them in the same area for around 2 hours, so I think it's easy to conclude that they did indeed have lunch. I've always thought it was a long time to fire someone... but that's just me lol

 

[missarmchair]

I'm so confused...wasnt the car pulling out at that time ?

Yes. The car was pulling OUT at 7:47, not arriving at 7:47. Yet, minutes later, someone wrote that cheque from inside the Mcstay house. For me, this is proof that there were 2 killers, or that the killer had an accomplice at the very least. If I recall the neighbor's testimony correctly, her camera didn't capture a vehicle going back to the Mcstay house. Just that car leaving at 7:47. So, who was inside the house afterwards?

 

[missy1974]

Ok, I have a question...

How was CM able to print a check on the 2nd? This was when we all know Joey was still alive. How did he access the QuickBooks to do that?

 

[asyousay]

IIRC both Chase and Joey's phone's place them in the same area for around 2 hours, so I think it's easy to conclude that they did indeed have lunch. I've always thought it was a long time to fire someone... but that's just me lol

Not only a long time straight away afterwards Joey rings Chase I think 3 times. It doesn’t make sense how you can speak for 2 hours and then leave said lunch and call him straight away.