CA CA - John Beck, 73, Alameda, 9 Feb 2016 #1

[sleeperlabs]

It seems that maybe John skipped the 'would have had to do' parts and ran away.

You mean with the bankruptcy documentation? If he did not submit his Chapter 7 documentation by January 9-ish, the 341 hearing on February 9 would not have been scheduled.

 

[0101ABA]

Link to the thread I started in the Unidentified section for the human remains referenced above:
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...Heights)-1-April-2016&p=12451031#post12451031

JB and his family/friends are still in my thoughts. Hope everyone has a great (rest of their) night!

 

[Lilibet]

Sorry, another thought... I'll also add that I still believe it would be extremely difficult for John Beck to have stashed money away so he could start a new life. This is based on the legal case timeline:

2006 - 2009
FTC investigates John Beck's real estate informercial business as part of Operation Short Change

July 2009
FTC files complaint for injunctive relief against Mentoring of America (Gravink & Hewitt's business); Alexander, Beck and Paul (the informercial personalities) named as inventors of get rich telemarketing schemes

November 2009
Preliminary injunction issued by the Central District of CA Federal Court for freeze on Beck's corporate and individual assets

August 2012
Permanent injunction issued; $113M judgement against Beck

September 2012
Beck files for Chapter 11 bankruptcy protection while the FTC case is in appellate court

November 2012
Chapter 11 trustee requests bankruptcy court to either convert John Beck's bankruptcy case to Chapter 7 or dismiss it outright, as Beck did not provide a plan for debt restructure

September 2012 - 2015
FTC v. Beck case is challenged, goes to U.S. Court of Appeals for the Ninth Circuit (this is the courtroom webcast which was mentioned early on in this thread)

November 2015
John Beck files for Chapter 7 conversion based on Ninth Circuit ruling

December 2015
Bankruptcy court grants John Beck Chapter 7 bankruptcy protection. 341(a) hearing is set for 2/9


So while he did move some money around in a manipulative way prior to his bankruptcy in 2012 (selling a house to his daughter, paid off some of his mortgage, dumped money into a retirement account), remember that he filed Chapter 11 as a strategy to protect his assets while the FTC case was being appealed. In order to hide his money, John Beck would had to have done it much much earlier, between 2005 and 2006, way before he was even aware that his finances were being monitored by the authorities. According to the court case, the infomercials ran from 2004-2007, so that's not a big window of time.

The other thing to keep in mind is that Beck testified that his system was flawed and that it would be very difficult to make any money with it... and the FTC briefing shows that revenue from the infomercials, call center/DR marketing, consulting, etc. flowed largely to Gravink and Hewitt's companies (Family Products and Mentoring of America). So it's difficult to imagine that John Beck could have a small fortune or any reasonable amount of money for that matter hidden somewhere.

Not sure how to put this, but I'm also a bit dubious that he is smart enough to pull off something like that. This is based on some facts we know, like he used a 'dumb' flip phone (not a smartphone) and failed to cover all of his tracks on his computer, leading the family to discover his search history. He was also clumsy enough to get caught by the FTC and called out for years by customers complaining online.

I'm not trying to make excuses for John Beck or rule anything out, nor am I trying to be argumentative - I just wanted to explain why I don't think he seems sophisticated or clever enough to craft an elaborate getaway. It doesn't quite add up.

Thanks for the great timeline. Here is a link that includes most of your list.
https://www.ftc.gov/enforcement/cases-proceedings/072-3138/john-beck-amazing-profits-llc-et-al

Some parts of the timeline and points you made I'm unsure about:
I couldn't find a link showing that they were being investigated since 2006, although that seems probable. In any case, I don't think they knew about it that early. According to Gravink's bankruptcy court document, Gravink put money in a Swiss account in Sept. 2008, six months after he became aware that he was being investigated by the FTC...approximately March 2008.
https://www.unitedstatescourts.org/federal/cacb/1733313/1-0.html
So one could assume that John had the same window in which to hide money, if he had any to hide.

A minor point...I don't think John's conversion to chapter 7 in November 2015 was based on the Ninth Circuit ruling on the appeal because that ruling wasn't filed until 3/3/16, after he disappeared.
http://cdn.ca9.uscourts.gov/datastore/memoranda/2016/03/03/12-56665.pdf

I don't want to be argumentative either. This whole situation is just so strange. But I do think that John made money off his system, even though it would be difficult for the average person to do so. He was well respected for his knowledge and ability back in the day before the infomercials. He had been buying and selling real estate for many years. I don't think it's beyond the realm of possibility that he parked money offshore long before he got involved with Gravink and Hewitt. Whether he made any money at all from the infomercials and Mentoring is hard to tell.

You certainly could be right about John's lack of smarts in terms of planning a getaway. I don't think he could have done it without help. He left a trail of breadcrumbs on his computer. Was that on purpose or dumb? A walk at Lands End doesn't seem to be something you do before a getaway.

I certainly don't want to trash John. He seems like a nice man. And I don't want to believe that he would leave his wife stuck with this mess. But disappearing when he did makes no sense to me unless he was somehow protecting assets. Suicide doesn't make sense either, but sometimes it just doesn't. What started out as a man who missed a meeting has turned into quite a convoluted tragedy of pretty epic proportions. So sad.

What do you think has happened to John?

 

[Lilibet]

Yep! You're right - the debtor is under oath during the 341(a) hearing, I should have mentioned that. But since the hearing is by nature more validation and less discovery, as shown in those Chapter 7 script links, everything discussed under oath would have been to confirm the bankruptcy schedules which would had to have been signed and filed with the bankruptcy court around early January, with the help of his attorney.

Mr. Beck also would had to have taken credit counseling and financial management courses prior to the 341, as mandated by CA law, which only adds to the mystery of why he disappeared. Why go through all the trouble and then vanish? It's too bad Joy or the family can't offer up more information. There must be some critical detail we're missing here.

BBM

Somehow I don't think he took those courses, but I will have to look for that link in the morning.

Yes, I think there is a missing detail. I'm not sure even the family knows what it is though.

 

[Lilibet]

Link to the thread I started in the Unidentified section for the human remains referenced above:
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...Heights)-1-April-2016&p=12451031#post12451031

JB and his family/friends are still in my thoughts. Hope everyone has a great (rest of their) night!

Thanks for the new thread and link. To all a good night.

 

[SCHMAE]

Oh dear. If he left willingly, he left his family out to dry ?

 

[Damarna]

Oh dear. If he left willingly, he left his family out to dry ?

That thought breaks my heart.

 

[michmi]

I've been in and out of this thread, but it's the first I've heard of why that hearing was being held that day. I was under the assumption it was a minor type of hearing, but that one was extremely important and I think many of us would not have assumed a medical reason for his disappearance had we known. I feel terrible for his wife, who is now left to deal with the mess.

 

[Lilibet]

I've been in and out of this thread, but it's the first I've heard of why that hearing was being held that day. I was under the assumption it was a minor type of hearing, but that one was extremely important and I think many of us would not have assumed a medical reason for his disappearance had we known. I feel terrible for his wife, who is now left to deal with the mess.

Under normal circumstances, as sleeperlabs described, this would have been a minor meeting/hearing, and signal the end of a long, hard road. I think this is what family and friends believed. But John's case was anything but normal, and he chose not to attend, for his own reasons. That tells me that this meeting was a pivotal one to him, even if his family was unaware of that. It was perhaps a fork in the bankruptcy road rather than the end of the road. I really do hope he is safe and will come home to deal with his issues.

 

[MsMoon]

OT--This is a really interesting mystery. Commenters on the SFGate article guess that the remains could be part of an Indian burial ground, from the 1906 earthquake or foul play as suspected, among other ideas. I've been trying to figure out where this should go and the only possibility I see is the unidentified missing forum. The trouble with that is, all the listings mention the gender of the remains and that hasn't been determined yet. So far, no one else has started a thread for this story that I can find. Unless someone has a better idea, I think I might wait a bit to see how this develops and then pm someone who posts in the unidentified missing threads and ask their advice. Thoughts?

Here are some more stories about it.

Investigators are poring over missing-person reports and cold-case homicides to see if any fit the circumstances, police said. The county coroner’s office will try to analyze any DNA obtained from the remains.
http://www.sfgate.com/bayarea/article/Human-remains-unearthed-beneath-SF-dry-cleaning-7227476.php

There was no word from authorities yet on how long the bones had been there.
http://sanfrancisco.cbslocal.com/2016/04/04/human-remains-found-under-fillmore-street-business-deemed-suspicious/

We are trying to find out who this person is, whether it's a male or female, if it's one person or multiple persons," San Francisco Police Officer Carlos Manfredi said. ....City records indicate the building has been been in the area for more than 100 years.
http://www.nbcbayarea.com/news/loca...siness-in-San-Francisco-Police-374562611.html

Interesting. I just found out that my great grandfather while he and wife were visiting daughter in 1943. He left the home in San Francisco to walk the dog and never returned. Wonder if it could be him. 1906 of course would knock him off the list though. I may be coming to y'all for help once i get my ducks in a row.

 

[MsMoon]

Thanks to KayElJay and Lillibet for placing the post where it belongs

 

[0101ABA]

You're welcome Best wishes in your quest to find some answers in regards to your great grandfather!

 

[Lilibet]

Interesting. I just found out that my great grandfather while he and wife were visiting daughter in 1943. He left the home in San Francisco to walk the dog and never returned. Wonder if it could be him. 1906 of course would knock him off the list though. I may be coming to y'all for help once i get my ducks in a row.

OT--I hope you do find out all you can and start a thread here. What a sad story.

Thanks to KayElJay and Lillibet for placing the post where it belongs

You're welcome, but thanks to KayElJay for getting the job done!

 

[Tssiemer]

Interesting. I just found out that my great grandfather while he and wife were visiting daughter in 1943. He left the home in San Francisco to walk the dog and never returned. Wonder if it could be him. 1906 of course would knock him off the list though. I may be coming to y'all for help once i get my ducks in a row.

Did the dog come back?

 

[MsMoon]

Did the dog come back?

Not that I'm aware of. Very limited info. I'll start a post soon.

 

[sleeperlabs]

To add color to some of the recent posts, the Becks technically lost their home and other assets in August 2015 based on the bankruptcy court's order to transfer property to the appointed liquidating receiver. The family was allowed to remain in their home until either a decision was entered from the Ninth Circuit panel in the FTC appeal or 26 months from the suspend filing had lapsed, whichever occured sooner. Although John Beck's assets were under management and control of the liquidating receiver since last August, remember that this was the result of a joint stipulation. This is the liquidation and divestiture protection John Beck originally sought under Chapter 11.

Meanwhile, in the FTC appeal case the Ninth Circuit heard oral arguments on February 2015 and though John Beck's Chapter 7 filing in November 2015 was likely based on a bench opinion in appeal - the writing was clearly on the wall which is why there was a memorandum disposition last month - as well as the liquidation proceedings. But it all goes back to how very unusual it is to go through all the work of a Chapter 7 and then walk away.

For example, both John and his wife were both required to submit individual documentation for the 341 hearing. So that's double the painful, IRS audit-like workload on their shoulders. Taking the credit counseling and financial management classes is, by law, another obligation he had to meet. There are smaller (but additive) things like Chapter 7 filing & administrative fees, trustee surcharges, plus the large expenses in retaining bankruptcy counsel. So a lot of time, money and effort went into the process just prior to the meeting on February 9. It's sort of like running a marathon until mile 25 and turning around and going home. Most of the hard work (and expenses) was behind him.

Maybe it was shame. Maybe it was skepticism. But in general terms, the rate of debtor discharge in Chapter 7 cases is extremely high, somewhere along the order of 99% or better, and the grounds for denial are quite narrow. Missing the mandatory credit & financial management classes is grounds for denial of discharge, and he would have to be very reckless for his bankruptcy to be dismissed on something like that... though still a possibility. Fraud is another, but again, I'm think hiding his money would have been so hard to do. His income was from a licensing deal with Gravink & Hewitt on credit instrument transactions from the direct marketing. Consumers weren't paying in cash or personal check, so it's tough to imagine how the revenue could have been hidden or laundered in a masterful way so as to not get caught. Possible, but very difficult.

I have a couple of hypotheses of what may have transpired, one that I think happened and one that I hope happened, but really I have a lot more questions than answers which probably isn't helpful to anyone! :sigh: In the end though, I hope for the best for the Beck family. Keeping my fingers crossed for a breakthrough. lease:

 

[Lilibet]

As I mentioned last night, I looked for and finally I did find the link about the courses he was supposed to take. He turned in a certificate of credit counseling 11/30/15. The certificate of financial management was due 3/8/16. Paperwork concerning the requirement to take that course was filed 2/24-25/16 by trustee Diamond according to the Alameda Sun. The article doesn't say if he actually took the course. I assume he did.

It's interesting that a 341(a) meeting with creditors was scheduled for 1/8/16 in Los Angeles, according to the link below. I wonder if that was rescheduled for Oakland on 2/9/16. Here's the quote:

Meeting of Creditors with 341(a) meeting to be held on 01/08/2016 at 09:00 AM at RM 2, 915 Wilshire Blvd., 10th Floor, Los Angeles, CA 90017. Objections for Discharge due by 03/08/2016. Cert. of Financial Management due by 03/08/2016 for Debtor and Joint Debtor (if joint case) (Higgins, Gail) (Entered: 11/30/2015)

http://www.plainsite.org/dockets/2osgnvvt8/california-central-bankruptcy-court/john-beck/

http://alamedasun.com/news/john-beck-still-missing-his-case-unfolds

As you've pointed out, sleeperlabs, the worst should have been over. Isn't it true that because he switched to Chapter 7, his residence could not be liquidated? The article linked below contains a nifty chart explaining the basic differences between chapter 11 and 7. I think chapter 7 was an advantage, actually. I'm not sure about CA. But now that chapter 7 will be canceled, his wife will lose everything that would have been protected.
http://www.forbes.com/sites/halahto...chapter-11-instead-of-chapter-7/#221662b91331

As I mentioned last night, if any money was hidden offshore, I think it would have been done while he was actually making money in real estate, possibly back in the '80's--90's. I agree that it would have been difficult to pull off before the FTC filed its case, although Gravink managed to hide $300,000 in Switzerland until recently. He eventually got caught last fall and that may have been John's fear. I just hope he's safe. His family doesn't need grief on top of financial disaster.

 

[kimi_SFC]

Interesting. I just found out that my great grandfather while he and wife were visiting daughter in 1943. He left the home in San Francisco to walk the dog and never returned. Wonder if it could be him. 1906 of course would knock him off the list though. I may be coming to y'all for help once i get my ducks in a row.

:bump:

Link to the thread I started in the Unidentified section for the human remains referenced above:
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...Heights)-1-April-2016&p=12451031#post12451031

JB and his family/friends are still in my thoughts. Hope everyone has a great (rest of their) night!

:grouphug:
:candle:


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[nannymo]

Oh dear. If he left willingly, he left his family out to dry ?

I have typed something very similar several times Schmae and could not post it because I felt it was unfair, but you said it very well.

Thank you! My thoughts from the very beginning. I have followed closely, but didn't have anything worthwhile to add.

 

[Any123]

Anything new?