CA - Jonathan Gerrish, Ellen Chung, daughter, 1 & dog, suspicious death hiking area, Aug 2021 #2

[wary]

If the autopsy said no heat stroke.. then what else could it be.

The autopsy didn’t say ‘no heat stroke,’ as I understand it—it simply postponed saying anything until the toxicology results were back.

 

[mickey2942]

I think that the autopsy on the dog will be revealing. I wonder if LEO closed off the trail for further investigation? No mention of this, or any indication of vomit.

 

[Figuring]

8/15/2021 7:45 am – Witness sees Gerrish/Chung family traveling towards the trail head in their vehicle

Mariposa Sheriff’s Office Update on the Gerrish – Chung Family | Sierra News Online

RSBM, I just wanted to thank you for this whole list, & this tidbit especially, I hadn't caught this detail before. So they did start out in the morning, & likely planned to hike in the cooler morning hours, but something went terribly wrong.

 

[rahod1]

RSBM, I just wanted to thank you for this whole list, & this tidbit especially, I hadn't caught this detail before. So they did start out in the morning, & likely planned to hike in the cooler morning hours, but something went terribly wrong.

It was already 85F at 8AM which would be the earliest start time if they were seen driving at 7:45. Just 1 HR later it was 92. So was hot from the get- go

• 08/15/2021 06:00 73 DEG F
• 08/15/2021 07:00 77 DEG F
• 08/15/2021 08:00 85 DEG F
• 08/15/2021 09:00 92 DEG F

 

[RickshawFan]

Yes, I had noted that this aspect was unclear. Experienced hikers would ensure each adult carried sufficient water but there was only mention of one bladder.

The other relevant unknown is what time they actually started. I know there's a picture of them looking ready for hiking at 6:45 or so but mention of them leaving in the afternoon but I'm not aware of confirmed timing.

It wouldn't make sense to do that kind of hike later in the day. It actually makes little sense to do that kind of hike anytime in the summer as no matter how early you start the uphill will be later & warmer unless you're camping overnight. It's exactly the opposite of the type of hike I'd do in hot weather. When my 23 yr old twins were younger we'd have to vacation during school vacations so all our western hiking trips were in June, as early as possible, but always at hot times.

I spent hours planning hikes that were safe to do in southern UT, CO, CA, AZ etc. Hikes to waterfalls with little elevation gain, hikes where you climb UP first then down which is just generally preferable IMO. I would almost double the necessary water. My husband was laden down like a pack mule with it. But to do a hike where you gain that kind of elevation at a hotter time of the day doesn't make sense unless they were thinking of "the old days" when evenings were a lot cooler. Now it's not cool until the sun goes down & they'd have had to have been back by then. But they'd have known that so...

This sounds marvelous to me. Besides preparing to the hilt, you seem to have chosen "high interest" hikes, e.g. hikes with waterfalls, so you tailored your decisions to your children's needs. Great outdoors mom!

General relevant info:
If anyone is wondering how to find "high interest" hikes (these are the kind of leisurely day hike I happen to like, too), look for the series of books titled "Best Hikes with Dogs [State]" and "Best Hikes with Kids [State]". They have taken me to some of the "best of the best", easy and fun.

 

[mickey2942]

RSBM, I just wanted to thank you for this whole list, & this tidbit especially, I hadn't caught this detail before. So they did start out in the morning, & likely planned to hike in the cooler morning hours, but something went terribly wrong.

From the same article:

Trail Information –

Hites Cove Rd – Savage Lundy Trail located Inside the Ferguson Fire (2018) footprint.

Entire Trail Loop is approx. 8.5 miles – 5 miles of the trail consists of a steep southern exposure path with little to no trees or shade.

Spot Weather for the area indicates temperatures during 11:50 am – 5:50 pm ranged between 103-109 degrees in certain areas of the trail.

Wow.
Mariposa Sheriff’s Office Update on the Gerrish – Chung Family | Sierra News Online

 

[Deleted member 292879]

Great update, @whirrledpeas! Thank you. I am trying my best to be rational here, but if they did try to complete that entire loop going down Marble Point to the river and back up Savage-Lundy (I’m about to lose my eyesight, I’ve been studying Google Earth for so long), now I’m thinking it is more likely they could have encountered someone or something on the trail.

IMO, only if they got terribly delayed or lost (or temporarily lost the dog) would they end up experiencing the worst heat of the day, given we now know they began their hike at 8AM. Curious to hear what everyone else thinks.

 

[Figuring]

It was already 85F at 8AM which would be the earliest start time if they were seen driving at 7:45. Just 1 HR later it was 92. So was hot from the get- go

• 08/15/2021 06:00 73 DEG F
• 08/15/2021 07:00 77 DEG F
• 08/15/2021 08:00 85 DEG F
• 08/15/2021 09:00 92 DEG F

Yes, very true! I should have said not "cool" per se, but relatively cooler. Wow, that is hot for the morning. I understand it got up over 100, so I wonder if they planned to be done by the very hottest part of the day. I've read so many things now that I'm forgetting where I read them, but someone was talking about the "reflection" in that area, due to no shade etc., & how it would have felt even hotter than it was.

 

[LifeIsAMystery]

Can you link John’s AllTrails account?

I can't from this device but it is on the 1st thread.

RSBM, I just wanted to thank you for this whole list, & this tidbit especially, I hadn't caught this detail before. So they did start out in the morning, & likely planned to hike in the cooler morning hours, but something went terribly wrong.

It was in the 90s by 9 and surely the feels like temp was higher esp in a canyon.

I have had heat exhaustion coming close to heat stroke before, and am very cautious as a result. I make a point of hiking UP when planning routes, to have that extreme elevation change at the end is risky.

I don't get why they did not hike the easier trail nearby, esp since he had previously mapped it on AllTrails and had not hiked it/had not marked it complete. Even if you had never hiked you would have understood the steepness of the trail, felt the heat radiating up, seen how deep the canyon was and that tree cover was gone, from the time they parked.

Most of his hikes had WAY less change in elevation. The Google Earth link and FB photos linked in the first thread really shows the rugged terrain and steepness. MOO, it was a lot to take on with a baby and a dog.

 

[RickshawFan]

RSBM, I just wanted to thank you for this whole list, & this tidbit especially, I hadn't caught this detail before. So they did start out in the morning, & likely planned to hike in the cooler morning hours, but something went terribly wrong.

The problem is, it wasn't cool by the time they started, and soon after it would have been untenably hot (hiking in 90 degrees in a shadeless, dry canyon is untenable, especially for a baby or a dog).

 

[woods]

Multiple Water samples taken in the area and of the water the family had with them.

Is 'water' singularized here?

Mariposa Sheriff’s Office Update on the Gerrish – Chung Family | Sierra News Online

 

[Figuring]

The problem is, it wasn't cool by the time they started, and soon after it would have been untenably hot (hiking in 90 degrees in a shadeless, dry canyon is untenable, especially for a baby or a dog).

Yes, forgive me, I amended my prior comment--not that it was cool per se, but not the worst heat of the day. There had been some speculation that they started out in the afternoon, that's what I had in mind.

Can I ask you--you have extensive outdoor knowledge, I've learned a lot from your posts. I'm wondering what you think. If 90 is too hot to begin with, for the area & with dependents, what do you think would prompt a person/people to go for it? Do you think it could be that if they were experienced, they felt they could handle it? I'm just thinking it would have been roasting in the parking lot alone!

 

[RickshawFan]

Yes, very true! I should have said cooler, so much as relatively cooler. Wow, that is hot for the morning. I understand it got up over 100, so I wonder if they planned to be done by the very hottest part of the day. I've read so many things now that I'm forgetting where I read them, but someone was talking about the "reflection" in that area, due to no shade etc., & how it would have felt even hotter than it was.

Yes, heat bouncing back from dry earth that had been baked in the sun.

 

[Smokingun]

Our local news update today: Ruled out chemical causes on the trail and weapons. Nothing significant in cell phone data.

Cause of death still undetermined in case of family found dead in Mariposa County

 

[Seattle1]

The autopsy didn’t say ‘no heat stroke,’ as I understand it—it simply postponed saying anything until the toxicology results were back.

Yes, the autopsy returned preliminary results but there will be no final report until the toxicology results are obtained.

 

[woods]

Our local news update today: Ruled out chemical causes on the trail and weapons. Nothing significant in cell phone data.
Cause of death still undetermined in case of family found dead in Mariposa County

From the same article: Authorities conducted searches of the family's cars and phones, and officials say "nothing significant was located."

 

[Deleted member 292879]

From the same article: Authorities conducted searches of the family's cars and phones, and officials say "nothing significant was located."

I believe “phones” there is a misprint and should read “home.” The sheriff’s update said “home and cars.” FBI still has the phones and a warrant for social media access was issued.

 

[Deleted member 292879]

I just delved into JG’s AllTrails profile a bit further and saw that he reviewed a different trail in April and commented: “cool old mine, some views, big climbs in places.” Viewable at this link:

https://www.alltrails.com/members/jonathan-gerrish/reviews

But even if they did encounter an old mine the day they perished, and explored near it, wouldn’t the effects be instantaneous?

Regardless, his account really gives the impression of a fit, observant person who knows what he’s doing and doesn’t mind a hike with 3000ft or more of gain…

ETA: He visited another trail that he calls “Comet Mine and Skelton Creek,” also in April 2021. Neither of those names turns up anything on AllTrails. Is it possible he had an interest in old mines? MOO.

 

[RickshawFan]

Yes, forgive me, I amended my prior comment--not that it was cool per se, but not the worst heat of the day. There had been some speculation that they started out in the afternoon, that's what I had in mind.

Can I ask you--you have extensive outdoor knowledge, I've learned a lot from your posts. I'm wondering what you think. If 90 is too hot to begin with, for the area & with dependents, what do you think would prompt a person/people to go for it? Do you think it could be that if they were experienced, they felt they could handle it? I'm just thinking it would have been roasting in the parking lot alone!

Thanks for the compliment!
There's not a snowball's chance in hell I'd be hiking in those conditions. When I was thru-hiking the AT, my cluster of thru hikers got into a heat wave in NY near Palisades Parkway IIRC. That was a shady trail, trees pretty much the whole trip. All of a sudden, everyone disappeared. It turns out, they left the trail for a couple of days and hung out at hostels until the heat dissipated. I didn't want to budge from the ice cream stand, but kept going. Silly me. Misery. Luckily, some kind folks left us water and drinks in a brook. I sure didn't get far. I dawdled. I crept. I whined.
I can't even mow the lawn in that heat in the safety of my yard. Why would I go hiking?
I began hiking in the Alps as a child. My father was a mountaineer. In my 20's I learned to hike from old-timers in Oregon. I went about twice a week. There were no guidebooks at that time. They taught me a lot and took me to hundreds of places. I went on several long overnights with the Sierra Club.
Then I worked professionally (coming on 20 years). I also thru-hiked. I'm an equipment geek.

******
Safety, safety, safety issue. When you are first starting, always go out with others. A local hiking club is a good place to start.

Major safety item. Get a professional pack fit at an outdoor store if you are buying an overnight pack. Try several (I usually do 3). They should have weights in them.

Be prepared to be reasonable about price. Online sources do not offer this service, and therefore don't have to pay for overhead, so their packs can be at steep discounts.

Pack-fitting is an art and a skill. It usually takes quite a while for me to train a pack-fitter, and they have to have quite a bit of outdoor experience before they know the whys and wherefores, as well as how to fit a body that is not their own.

I ask people to set aside 1 1/4 hours to get a good pack fit. So, yes, a good specialty store is really expending resources to contribute to your safety.

I've seen at least one missing hiker discussed on WS where a backpack that rides too low may have interfered with leg muscles that could have prevented an unfortunate accident.

As for a baby carrier backpack, do the same thing (it's usually not as fitted, though). What most people forget is that the BABY HAS TO FIT, too. Parents can get fixated on a brand, and oopsie, baby prefers a different one. LOL. The baby doesn't fit or chafes or itches or it's arms get squeezed or it just plain makes the baby bawl? It's a deal breaker. If the baby carrier works for everyone, it's a magical experience for the baby. You should see their faces the first time they get in one! I have had some babies burst into laughter: I'm thinking because it's the first time their heads have been exactly on level with their parents'.

******

 

[Mamamerced]

https://www.fresnobee.com/news/local/article253770788.html