CA - Jonathan Gerrish, Ellen Chung, daughter, 1 & dog, suspicious death hiking area, Aug 2021 #2

[Figuring]

I’m curious if anyone has guesstimates about what the minimum length of time it would take for these routes:

1. from the car down the SL trail, to 1.5 miles in, where they were found;

2. Taking the full Hite Cove all the way around the loop to where they were found (I’m guessing it’s approximately 6.5 miles total to the spot?)

I mean to say, if someone stayed on the course they took, didn’t double back, didn’t take inordinately long breaks, wasn’t injured, & was going at an average pace. I know there’s unlimited variability possible as far as all that goes, but I’m just wondering how long these routes would take minimally—as in, they could not be done in less than a minimum time.

(I asked something similar in a reply up thread but I don’t think I was concise, so I am trying again!)

 

[Speculaytor]

How heat can make your body melt down from the inside out (theconversation.com)

I know I cannot read this. I am so sad for them, it is very difficult to think they may have suffered greatly.

 

[d4i5y]

Would autopsy results show if one of the adults--specifically JG--had incurred any types of injury to his lower extremities, a la a twisted or sprained ankle? I could imagine if he injured himself, he might've tried to power through the pain in the hopes of being able to make it back to the car, but may have had to sit down and take the weight off the injured leg/foot, in which case I could see him saying he'd mind the baby and dog so his wife could make a quicker return to their car (or, just as likely, she might've been looking for any spot where they would have had cellular signal to call for assistance)? I don't know how sprains/strains present in an autopsy, particularly on a body that's been exposed to the extreme heat for a significant amount of time prior to recovery--are they the kind of injury that would show up in a post-mortem exam, or could this type of minor injury resolve itself before a body was examined by a coroner/medical examiner?

I just don't find myself convinced that the algae is the culprit in the deaths of all four members of the party, and I'm trying to consider possible explanations for why JG was found seated, with baby Miju in her carrier and the loyal Oski laying next to him (description is per the MSM reports that've previously been posted on this thread and Thread #1 for this case) while EC was found some distance away.

All of the above is conjecture and MOO!

I’m really interested in this question, too, as one of my working theories is he had a muscle sprain or some sort of incapacitating injury. Doesn’t seem to be a lot of information on it online (that I can find) but I suppose if the sprain had accompanying swelling and bruising that might be detectable in an autopsy. But then this could be complicated by the body having been undiscovered for over a day, much of it in extreme heat, so they may not be able to detect it. They can apparently do MRIs so perhaps they may do this, too.

 

[Speculaytor]

I’m curious if anyone has guesstimates about what the minimum length of time it would take for these routes:

1. from the car down the SL trail, to 1.5 miles in, where they were found;

2. Taking the full Hite Cove all the way around the loop to where they were found (I’m guessing it’s approximately 6.5 miles total to the spot?)

I mean to say, if someone stayed on the course they took, didn’t double back, didn’t take inordinately long breaks, wasn’t injured, & was going at an average pace. I know there’s unlimited variability possible as far as all that goes, but I’m just wondering how long these routes would take minimally—as in, they could not be done in less than a minimum time.

(I asked something similar in a reply up thread but I don’t think I was concise, so I am trying again!)

Back some pages in the thread, I believe someone posted statements that LE believed they may have done the whole 8.5 mile loop.

 

[Figuring]

Back some pages in the thread, I believe someone posted statements that LE believed they may have done the whole 8.5 mile loop.

I saw that, I’m just asking this for my own annoying brain.

 

[bpeterson912]

The only thing I can think of would be the trail cut at the switch bend. Given the steepness of the trail the outside of the bend might create a short "wall."

Also, it's not uncommon for victims of heat stroke to lose consciousness or die in a seated position, with their torso and head slouched forward. When I read the initial media accounts of the discovery of the family, the reported fact that Jonathan was found in a seated position was the first thing that made me think that the cause of death might have been heat stroke.

 

[Seattle1]

<quoted post removed>

<modsnip> To be clear, WS TOS prevents posting more than 10% of an article and why the links provided. Kristie Mitchell, Mariposa County Sheriff's spokeswoman is cited here. That's customary of law enforcement -- using a spokesperson. Steven Jeffe, represents the family. He also reported the family missing to LE. I stand by these posts as credible. <modsnip>

 

[obripe]

I agree with this and the comment being replied to. One thing that throws me is talk that they “.... were on a day hike”. But I’ve looked around on this and there’s no direct quote from the authorities. The Mirror (that it seems safe to say has already embellished on the “... [dog] attached” aspect) is the only one that says this (that I can make out given I can’t access the WP and SF Chronicle). The Sun and People both say “... what was supposed to be a day hike“. Word for word so again looks like they’re lifting from each other in a syndicate. Interestingly, both place these words round about the part of the story when it mentions them first being reported missing which in other more reliable sources has the quote from the sheriff that they weren’t planning on staying out overnight. So I do wonder if this “day hike” is again a red herring that’s been cooked up by the press and was never actually said. I certainly can’t seem to find a quote for it.

Also, obviously I don’t know the people in question but I had a long look through Ellen’s Instagram and as intrepid and outdoors as she seemed, she doesn’t strike me as irresponsible of reckless. Obviously everyone can make mistakes but she was slow introducing the dog (she seemed especially devoted to) to hiking, she’d spent time hiking jungles and mountains in Asia and across glaciers in Iceland. This seems very adventurous but these are really activities of someone who would have to be prepared and careful by nature. I’m inclined to think they weren’t planning on doing the full loop or if so, doing it quickly so they’d be out by, say, 11am. Or perhaps they planned to do the scenic view at the top of the ridge then down the switchbacks to the river and back again. Maybe a couple of hours. And then something happened that was either a mistake they couldn’t foresee or some sort of circumstance they couldn’t avoid. Overall though, I don’t think from what I’ve seen (and I’m happy to stand corrected) they were reckless people or would put their baby and dog into a potentially dangerous situation.

IMO, in this case the term "day hike" simply distinguishes this from an overnight trip. It isn't meant to imply that the hike was to last all day.

 

[mickey2942]

My AllTrails discusses the routes, rates the routes, easy, moderate, hard...and talks about elevation, whether it is shady or not.

Did these folks just pick the wrong route?

 

[d4i5y]

There were 2 different signs.

1 sign about the water was posted in July on the community board at the park entrance. Someone commented previously perhaps they didn’t stop to read the sign.

Then days after they were found another sign was posted (I’m not sure it’s location) as a response to their deaths.

The sign in July was actually on Facebook I think (Poison algae may have killed California family, police say). I also remember reading about that warning sign going up on the path after the bodies had been found. Can’t find the source now but still looking.

 

[Speculaytor]

I saw that, I’m just asking this for my own annoying brain.

I thought you were asking length of entire loop and had estimated it at 6.5, so I was offering that LE says 8.5. I see that you estimated the loop to where they were found to be 6.5 (probably is)....I misread.

 

[katydid23]

This is just a mind blowing case. Nothing makes sense, nothing fits. As a hiker myself getting heat exhaustion can definitely happen...but to everyone at once?..that ones out in my opinion.

The toxic algae seems a little weird to me to, I seriously doubt they bathed or drank that water? I can't believe this algae would be so bad it's airborne? Others would be sick?

This is what seems important to me.. Were there other animals sick nearby? If not then it had to be in something only they had....water bottles? Food?

I know people keep saying 'everyone at once'---but it is really just 2 people who had to get overheated, and not even at the same time---the 2 adults. Because the infant and the dog were trapped and dependent and were going to die from the elements at some point because of the situation.

But it really just has to have been ONE of the adults having initial symptoms of heat exhaustion, for the whole thing to begin going sideways. It would slow down the entire process if Dad became incoherent and unable to hike. Mom would try and help him cool down and rest, they would use a lot of water, and waste a lot of time, and then like a domino effect, others would begin to show symptoms as the temperature rose to 109, water ran low and they still had so far to go.

 

[obripe]

<quoted post removed>

I may not be understanding the point of contention here; what do you think this was if not a "day hike"?

 

[RickshawFan]

On the lightning topic, 4 hikers injured 2 weeks ago from a lightning bolt in a storm that suddenly came up: Hikers injured from lightning at NC's Grandfather Mountain
Recall that CA has dry lightning (no thunderstorm), and it is fire season. Forest fires are often caused by lightning, and the Gulch has already had such an event.

 

[RickshawFan]

I am just saying that the timeframes currently mentioned in the articles imply that the family left in the morning and expected to be gone for an extended period of time that day (i.e., day hike as opposed to a morning hike).

I am not aware of any article mentioning that vehicle keys were missing from the bodies. The family was found near the end of the trail loop heading back towards their vehicle. Even if they did lose their keys (either permanently or temporarily), it is more likely that one of the adults would have waited with the baby and the dog while the other adult backtracked to speed up the process of retrieving the keys.

MOO.

I haven't seen any LE statement that they "expected to be gone for an extended period." For all we know, they planned on an hour and met with catastrophe.

They were experienced. Judging from the little water they had, the conditions, plus baby and dog, they planned for not a major hike.

I think the evidence we'd want to see: energy bar wrappers, a dirty diaper in the pack, several more water bottles, lunch, gorp, fruit debris, used baby wipes.... Most interesting would be the garbage they were packing out; this would reflect how much time they were en route. That plus untouched stuff would give an idea how long they intended to be out. On a 4 hour hike without incident, you'd be taking quite a lot of food, and usually an extra energy bar or something. Each.

 

[katydid23]

<quoted post removed>
No one said for 'most' of the day. They said 'day hike' which means not an over night hike.

 

[Snoopster]

Unfortunately, AllTrails doesn't have a 'curated' trail for the specific trail the family was found on. So there wouldn't have been comments about conditions.

Someone mentioned that the specific info for the trail on AllTrails would include the temperature and humidity for the day, but I believe that is only for AllTrails Pro (the subscription side of AllTrails). I don't subscribe to that, so I have never seen that information for a trail. I don't know if Jonathan subscribed to Pro.

 

[bpeterson912]

I understand <another poster to be saying> that the term "day hike" doesn't necessarily mean an "all-day" hike, as some may be assuming. It simply means that the hike (whatever its duration) occurred during the day -- i.e., it wasn't an overnight outing.

<modsnip>

 

[TootsieFootsie]

Someone suggest earlier that he may have been sitting up to make shade for the baby.

If JG was found in a seated position, what was his back resting on? I've looked on Google Earth and there are no trees. Also it seems if you're really feeling bad, from heat stroke or something else, you're going to lay all the way down.

 

[RickshawFan]

The time they departed really doesn't matter now. The fact they got caught in the heat after 10 am with a challenging return is all that really matters. Just my take.

I agree. It got dangerously hot so fast, that anytime they left would have been the prelude to a potential catastrophe. Babies and dogs can't handle that heat.