CA - Jonathan Gerrish, Ellen Chung, daughter, 1 & dog, suspicious death hiking area, Aug 2021 #3

[rahod1]

Do we have any previous cases where *lightening out of the blue* (no storm) has killed hikers with no evidence on the bodies? Just curious. If lightening struck , why was the mother's body found 30 yds ahead? You would think they would all be together?

 

[MaryG12]

I learned something new about lightning and how its currents can travel underground and cause damage, including ground currents and their threat to animal and human life.

From 2016:

A Lightning Strike Just Killed 300 Reindeer in Norway

 

[SpideySense]

FWIW, I looked further into the lightening crouch, and found this NOAA information. The U.S. National Weather Services stopped recommending the crouch in 2008 - it is interesting to ready why. It is more about prevention now. The National Weather Service (NWS) stopped recommending the crouch in 2008.

Agreed. And yet the Forest Service and CDC still recommend it. I think the point NWS made was that nothing will truly protect you from lightning other than preventing yourself from being vulnerable to it. They don’t want people out there going “Yeah, there’s a thunderstorm forecast, but if it gets close we’ll just crouch down and be safe.” There is no safety, and they don’t want an illusion of one.

 

[RickshawFan]

Welcome to Websleuths, SpideySense! You've made a very astute observation here. I live in Florida and have seen how lightning hits directly at ground level - it's pretty scary to see!

Lightning Science: Five Ways Lightning Strikes People

If this was in fact the cause - maybe ground current? How awful for the family if this is what happened.

In thread #1, we had a discussion about this, and ground current seemed to be the lightning method settled on.
There can be rogue lightning flashes 25 miles away from a storm. The West has ideal conditions and dry lightning, so it doesn't even have to be a storm with rain. Even thunder wouldn't be necessary. It could just be a bolt out of the blue. I doubt the family would have prepared for it. IMO it would have just zapped them from underground.
I believe it was @Seni who had personal experience with cattle dropping dead from lightning activity.

 

[SpideySense]

FWIW, I looked further into the lightening crouch, and found this NOAA information. The U.S. National Weather Services stopped recommending the crouch in 2008 - it is interesting to ready why. It is more about prevention now. The National Weather Service (NWS) stopped recommending the crouch in 2008.

Agreed. And yet the Forest Service and CDC still recommend it. I think the point NWS made was that nothing will truly protect you from lightning other than preventing yourself from being vulnerable to it. They don’t want people out there going “Yeah, there’s a thunderstorm forecast, but if it gets close we’ll just crouch down and be safe.” There is no safety, and they don’t want an illusion of one.

 

[SpideySense]

Do we have any previous cases where *lightening out of the blue* (no storm) has killed hikers with no evidence on the bodies? Just curious. If lightening struck , why was the mother's body found 30 yds ahead? You would think they would all be together?

With respect, I don’t think we can conclude that there was no evidence on the bodies. There may not have been CONCLUSIVE evidence, but LE said they were still considering lightning AFTER the autopsy reports came in. With regard to the distance, if you have some warning about lightning (a nearby strike, thunder, hair rising, etc.), lightning safety practice is to separate and move well away from others before crouching to reduce the chance of multiple people getting struck.

 

[SpideySense]

This is dated from 1998 but may provide valuable information:

New Study Indicates Lightning Can Kill Without Leaving A Mark

New findings by a group of Colorado researchers indicates lightning could be the culprit in a number of unexplained fatal heart malfunctions in the outdoors in recent years, including some in the state's high mountains.

Wow, thank you for this. I didn’t stumble on it in my searches. But it makes total sense. Lightning is a strange, fickle thing. It doesn’t always make sense in how it kills.

 

[SpideySense]

In thread #1, we had a discussion about this, and ground current seemed to be the lightning method settled on.
There can be rogue lightning flashes 25 miles away from a storm. The West has ideal conditions and dry lightning, so it doesn't even have to be a storm with rain. Even thunder wouldn't be necessary. It could just be a bolt out of the blue. I doubt the family would have prepared for it. IMO it would have just zapped them from underground.
I believe it was @Seni who had personal experience with cattle dropping dead from lightning activity.

I’ll go back and read that thread more thoroughly. I’d hate to be rehashing an already-covered topic.

 

[rahod1]

So far no conclusive evidence as to cause of death. It may be that ultimately they won't find one. If that's the case>>what's the MOST LIKELY cause<<??? In my humble opinion HEAT STROKE FAR OUTWEIGHS what ever may be in *second place* given the conditions and that two participants were extremely vulnerable to heat.
Once the weakest link is breached, the entire *chain* breaks down.
It's compelling for some to view this as a simultaneous death (lightning?), when, in all probability, that may not be the case. Many here have posited scenarios that show sequential death is very likely with heat stroke. I'm of this opinion.

 

[gitana1]

The problem with babies and heat (in simplified terms) is that aside from their general vulnerability and narrow margin of error with homeostasis, they have very little surface area and high body fat. Lanky, tall people are at lowest risk of heatstroke because their bodies can better dissipate heat - babies are the opposite. I can’t bear to think about what she must’ve gone through, especially in a carrier pressed against her father, like being pressed against a warming pad.

Do we know what time they started out and/or how long they hiked for?

 

[Seattle1]

I’ll go back and read that thread more thoroughly. I’d hate to be rehashing an already-covered topic.

@SpideySense - please don't be deterred. Your contribution on this subject (lightning) on any date is valued and appreciated. Nothing is "closed" for discussion. WS encourages 'scroll and roll.'

 

[HannahJJJ]

I keep going back to this...why would parents take their one-year-old baby girl (and an especially oh-so-tiny and delicate baby girl) into a situation in which temperatures would be, what around 100 degrees, at even 10 in the morn? And the dog...her other "baby", thick furred, into that dangerously hot milieu, why? As I said, I keep going back to this.

 

[woods]

So far no conclusive evidence as to cause of death. It may be that ultimately they won't find one. If that's the case>>what's the MOST LIKELY cause<<??? In my humble opinion HEAT STROKE FAR OUTWEIGHS what ever may be in *second place* given the conditions and that two participants were extremely vulnerable to heat.
Once the weakest link is breached, the entire *chain* breaks down.
It's compelling for some to view this as a simultaneous death (lightning?), when, in all probability, that may not be the case. Many here have posited scenarios that show sequential death is very likely with heat stroke. I'm of this opinion.

(If heat-related) the autopsy should show multi-organ failure. The question is what caused organ failure since a number of things (other than the heat) has the same effect. Toxicology tests are to eliminate other possible causes and if the toxicology tests come back negative, the coroner has effectively ruled out everything except death by heat stroke. It's a process of elimination leaving only one reasonable cause of organ failure, and the coroner will likely narrow down that cause to heat.

“We are basically onto two weeks and everyone wants answers, but we are being as methodical as possible. We are doing a massive amount of toxicology testing. We can’t speculate on what we think at this point because we don’t have all the facts.”
Trails and Campgrounds Close Near Yosemite Where Family and Dog Died

 

[gitana1]

Has anyone pointed out how Stranger Things this situation is?

 

[Seattle1]

Do we know what time they started out and/or how long they hiked for?

Nothing definitive @gitana1. Reposting from previous thread:

https://www.fresnobee.com/news/local/article253770788.html

Aug 26, 2021

The family was found dead by a search and rescue team on Aug. 17 along the Savage-Lundy Trail in Devil’s Gulch near Hites Cove, a remote location in Sierra National Forest that’s northeast of Mariposa and southwest of Yosemite National Park.

[..[

Toxicology tests are not yet complete. The sheriff’s office has not shared what toxins are being tested for in the toxicology tests. Samples from the dog were sent to multiple labs for testing.

[..]

Mariposa Sheriff Jeremy Briese said detectives are working “round the clock” to find answers for Gerrish’s and Chung’s family and friends.

[..]

The sheriff’s office said the entire Savage-Lundy Trail loop, where the family was found dead, is approximately 8.5 miles, with 5 miles of that being a “steep southern exposure path with little-to-no trees or shade” in the 2018 Ferguson Fire burn scar.

[..]

The family started their hike from a trailhead down Hites Cove Road north of Jerseydale in Mariposa County.

[..]

The sheriff’s office plans to share another update when toxicology results are back, and “there is no current timeframe for that.”

On Aug. 20, Mitchell said toxicology results can take up to six weeks, and sometimes longer.

[..]

The Mariposa County Sheriff’s Office also shared the following timeline of recent events and their investigation.

• Saturday, Aug. 14: Jonathan Gerrish researches Hites Cove hike via a phone app.
• Sunday, Aug. 15: 7:45 a.m., witness sees the Gerrish/Chung family traveling toward the trailhead in their vehicle.
  
  
• Monday, Aug. 16: 11 p.m., a family friend reports the family missing.
• Tuesday, Aug. 17: 1:53 a.m., the family’s car is located down Hites Cove Road north of Jerseydale.
• Tuesday, Aug. 17: 1:55 a.m., a search and rescue mission is initiated.
• Tuesday, Aug. 17: 11 a.m., the family is found dead on the Savage-Lundy Trail by a search and rescue team.
• Thursday, Aug. 19: Autopsies are completed on the family and dog, “all currently pending toxicology.”
• Friday, Aug. 20: Search warrants issued for a phone found with the family.
• Friday, Aug. 20: Search warrants issued for the family’s home and cars. “Nothing significant” is found.
• Monday, Aug. 23: Additional water samples are collected from water sources “along the trail area.”
• Tuesday, Aug. 24: A cell phone is delivered to the FBI for data extraction, “awaiting results.”
• Wednesday, Aug. 25: Search warrants issued for “possible social media access.”

ETA: Taking note that in this updated edition of the story under the same title, the Sheriff's Office provides that the entire Savage-Lundy Trail loop, where the family was found dead, is approximately 8.5 miles, but does NOT say that they believe the family completed the loop or most of the loop.

 

[woods]

Nothing definitive @gitana1. Reposting from previous thread:

https://www.fresnobee.com/news/local/article253770788.html

Aug 26, 2021

The family was found dead by a search and rescue team on Aug. 17 along the Savage-Lundy Trail in Devil’s Gulch near Hites Cove, a remote location in Sierra National Forest that’s northeast of Mariposa and southwest of Yosemite National Park.

[..[

Toxicology tests are not yet complete. The sheriff’s office has not shared what toxins are being tested for in the toxicology tests. Samples from the dog were sent to multiple labs for testing.

[..]

Mariposa Sheriff Jeremy Briese said detectives are working “round the clock” to find answers for Gerrish’s and Chung’s family and friends.

[..]

The sheriff’s office said the entire Savage-Lundy Trail loop, where the family was found dead, is approximately 8.5 miles, with 5 miles of that being a “steep southern exposure path with little-to-no trees or shade” in the 2018 Ferguson Fire burn scar.

[..]

The family started their hike from a trailhead down Hites Cove Road north of Jerseydale in Mariposa County.

[..]

The sheriff’s office plans to share another update when toxicology results are back, and “there is no current timeframe for that.”

On Aug. 20, Mitchell said toxicology results can take up to six weeks, and sometimes longer.

[..]

The Mariposa County Sheriff’s Office also shared the following timeline of recent events and their investigation.

• Saturday, Aug. 14: Jonathan Gerrish researches Hites Cove hike via a phone app.
• Sunday, Aug. 15: 7:45 a.m., witness sees the Gerrish/Chung family traveling toward the trailhead in their vehicle.
  
  
• Monday, Aug. 16: 11 p.m., a family friend reports the family missing.
• Tuesday, Aug. 17: 1:53 a.m., the family’s car is located down Hites Cove Road north of Jerseydale.
• Tuesday, Aug. 17: 1:55 a.m., a search and rescue mission is initiated.
• Tuesday, Aug. 17: 11 a.m., the family is found dead on the Savage-Lundy Trail by a search and rescue team.
• Thursday, Aug. 19: Autopsies are completed on the family and dog, “all currently pending toxicology.”
• Friday, Aug. 20: Search warrants issued for a phone found with the family.
• Friday, Aug. 20: Search warrants issued for the family’s home and cars. “Nothing significant” is found.
• Monday, Aug. 23: Additional water samples are collected from water sources “along the trail area.”
• Tuesday, Aug. 24: A cell phone is delivered to the FBI for data extraction, “awaiting results.”
• Wednesday, Aug. 25: Search warrants issued for “possible social media access.”

ETA: Taking note that in this updated edition of the story under the same title, the Sheriff's Office provides that the entire Savage-Lundy Trail loop, where the family was found dead, is approximately 8.5 miles, but does NOT say that they believe the family completed the loop or most of the loop.

Also from the article:
Sheriff officials said temperatures there appeared to range from 103 and 109 in certain parts of that trail between 11:50 a.m. and 5:50 p.m. Aug. 15, the day the family is believed to have been hiking it.

 

[gitana1]

So far no conclusive evidence as to cause of death. It may be that ultimately they won't find one. If that's the case>>what's the MOST LIKELY cause<<??? In my humble opinion HEAT STROKE FAR OUTWEIGHS what ever may be in *second place* given the conditions and that two participants were extremely vulnerable to heat.
Once the weakest link is breached, the entire *chain* breaks down.
It's compelling for some to view this as a simultaneous death (lightning?), when, in all probability, that may not be the case. Many here have posited scenarios that show sequential death is very likely with heat stroke. I'm of this opinion.

It’s weird. Because wouldn’t heat stroke initially be strongly suspected? And yet they are acting like it could be some dangerous thing that’s causing them to close down trails.

 

[gitana1]

Nothing definitive @gitana1. Reposting from previous thread:

https://www.fresnobee.com/news/local/article253770788.html

Aug 26, 2021

The family was found dead by a search and rescue team on Aug. 17 along the Savage-Lundy Trail in Devil’s Gulch near Hites Cove, a remote location in Sierra National Forest that’s northeast of Mariposa and southwest of Yosemite National Park.

[..[

Toxicology tests are not yet complete. The sheriff’s office has not shared what toxins are being tested for in the toxicology tests. Samples from the dog were sent to multiple labs for testing.

[..]

Mariposa Sheriff Jeremy Briese said detectives are working “round the clock” to find answers for Gerrish’s and Chung’s family and friends.

[..]

The sheriff’s office said the entire Savage-Lundy Trail loop, where the family was found dead, is approximately 8.5 miles, with 5 miles of that being a “steep southern exposure path with little-to-no trees or shade” in the 2018 Ferguson Fire burn scar.

[..]

The family started their hike from a trailhead down Hites Cove Road north of Jerseydale in Mariposa County.

[..]

The sheriff’s office plans to share another update when toxicology results are back, and “there is no current timeframe for that.”

On Aug. 20, Mitchell said toxicology results can take up to six weeks, and sometimes longer.

[..]

The Mariposa County Sheriff’s Office also shared the following timeline of recent events and their investigation.

• Saturday, Aug. 14: Jonathan Gerrish researches Hites Cove hike via a phone app.
• Sunday, Aug. 15: 7:45 a.m., witness sees the Gerrish/Chung family traveling toward the trailhead in their vehicle.
  
  
• Monday, Aug. 16: 11 p.m., a family friend reports the family missing.
• Tuesday, Aug. 17: 1:53 a.m., the family’s car is located down Hites Cove Road north of Jerseydale.
• Tuesday, Aug. 17: 1:55 a.m., a search and rescue mission is initiated.
• Tuesday, Aug. 17: 11 a.m., the family is found dead on the Savage-Lundy Trail by a search and rescue team.
• Thursday, Aug. 19: Autopsies are completed on the family and dog, “all currently pending toxicology.”
• Friday, Aug. 20: Search warrants issued for a phone found with the family.
• Friday, Aug. 20: Search warrants issued for the family’s home and cars. “Nothing significant” is found.
• Monday, Aug. 23: Additional water samples are collected from water sources “along the trail area.”
• Tuesday, Aug. 24: A cell phone is delivered to the FBI for data extraction, “awaiting results.”
• Wednesday, Aug. 25: Search warrants issued for “possible social media access.”

ETA: Taking note that in this updated edition of the story under the same title, the Sheriff's Office provides that the entire Savage-Lundy Trail loop, where the family was found dead, is approximately 8.5 miles, but does NOT say that they believe the family completed the loop or most of the loop.

Thanks for all the info.!

Either they are attempting to rule out heat stroke or they have reason to think it may be something else.

What gives me pause about the heat stroke theory is that all five died. Usually with heat stroke not everyone in a group would be affected the same way.

Do we know where on the trail they were found? Like how many miles from the trailhead? These people aren’t total novices. Surely they knew how hot it would get and wouldn’t go that far? Where is Hites Cove in relation to the trailhead?

 

[gitana1]

Also from the article:
Sheriff officials said temperatures there appeared to range from 103 and 109 in certain parts of that trail between 11:50 a.m. and 5:50 p.m. Aug. 15, the day the family is believed to have been hiking it.

Super hot. I think it comes down to how far they got and what part of the trail they were on, in determining whether heat stroke is at play. But apparently it can be hard to determine via autopsy so it’s determined somewhat by circumstances and ruling out other possibilities.

 

[Seattle1]

Thanks for all the info.!

Either they are attempting to rule out heat stroke or they have reason to think it may be something else.

What gives me pause about the heat stroke theory is that all five died. Usually with heat stroke not everyone in a group would be affected the same way.

Do we know where on the trail they were found? Like how many miles from the trailhead? These people aren’t total novices. Surely they knew how hot it would get and wouldn’t go that far? Where is Hites Cove in relation to the trailhead?

Replying to
@mgafni
With the help of the Mariposa sheriff, we were able to create a more accurate map of the suspected hike the family took. And sadly where they were found. https://sfchronicle.com/bayarea/article/Not-one-clue-The-mystery-is-only-deepening-16401921.php…



7:31 PM · Aug 20, 2021