CA - Jonathan Gerrish, Ellen Chung, daughter, 1 & dog, suspicious death hiking area, Aug 2021 #3

[Parsnip]

@SpideySense, I found your challenge and posts very intriguing. A google search yielded this (I am an Occam’s Razor girl): In 2020 in the US, there were 17 deaths attributed to lightning, and 323 deaths attributed to heat.

 

[EndoraXplorer]

It depends on what the illness was. It could have been physical or mental, and it may have gone into remission at times, or she may have had good days or simply good hours.

She may have had to schedule her life according to her symptoms and seized the good moments and took advantage of feeling well enough to do something.

If you look at the IG post (Login • Instagram), she is not talking about how sad she is to leave the corporate life or bemoaning the fact that she'll never work for a company again because she's ill. In fact, what she says is that the diagnosis led her to pursue a life with more meaning, intent, and mindfulness. And she was doing that - getting her 500 hour yoga teacher training (Satori Yoga Studio) and enrolled at CIIS for grad school.

 

[lotus777]

<snip> I am assuming some degree of heat acclimatization, given the family likely hiked often in the area, and she was fairly young and seemingly healthy, so I do not think she experienced the disorienting effects of heat stroke. Thoughts?

You can't be too young or too healthy for heat stroke. It's just a law of nature that the human body can't survive under certain temperatures. It can literally happen to anyone.

 

[SpideySense]

Okay, as a newbie I’m going to make a bold move and go out on a limb here. Feel free to throw tomatoes my way

<MOO> It was not the heat. Heatstroke didn’t kill them. Which means there was no long, horrible suffering, no babies or dogs in agony, no dramatic trailside decisions. You can continue to imagine all kinds of awful things about this poor family’s last hours if you wish, but there’s absolutely no reason or evidence to support those imaginings. <MOO>

Let’s quickly set aside LE’s apparent lack of focus on heatstroke. Some of you have rightly pointed out how much of a nonissue it seems to be to them, and how irresponsible it is that they are not being more vocal. That should tell you something. LE is in the business of protecting people. When two people died recently a few days apart in Death Valley, LE was calling “suspected heatstroke” shortly after the bodies were recovered and long before autopsy. They’re not doing that here. For good reasons.

Here’s why. You cannot conclude that because it was, say, 105 degrees, the heat killed these people, or even made them uncomfortable. That’s a basic misunderstanding of how our bodies physically change and acclimate to our temperature surroundings. Hot weather is relative, and what feels insufferable to you may feel mild to someone else. Ever wonder how a tourist from Chicago can succumb to heatstroke in less than an hour hiking in Death Valley in 115 degree heat, while the rangers who live there can perform SAR for hours on end in long pants? It’s because the rangers’ bodies are acclimated.

Here’s a good description of the heat acclimating process: Heat Index - Acclimatizing Workers | Occupational Safety and Health Administration

From the above OSHA article:
“ Workers become gradually acclimatized when exposed to hot conditions for several weeks. Physical changes in blood vessels and in sweating occur to dissipate heat more effectively.”

and

“Humans are, to a large extent, capable of adjusting to the heat. Much of this adjustment to heat, under normal circumstances, usually takes about 5 to 7 days, during which time the body will undergo a series of changes that will make continued exposure to heat more endurable.”

This family lived there, and by all accounts spent a lot of time outdoors hiking in the weather. All of them, even the baby, were acclimated. Acclimating doesn’t mean you get used to feeling hot and uncomfortable- it means your body has made physical changes so that you DON’T feel hot and uncomfortable, you can stay cool more efficiently, and you are at not at high risk for heat injury or heatstroke.

Now, if they were like some residents of the California Foothills who spend most of the summer months inside in air-conditioning, that might alter my opinion. But that doesn’t sound like them.

Someone here a few threads back used the temperature readings at El Portal, CA as a good comparison of the conditions in the trail area, and that’s fair. So, here are the daily highs recorded at that station for the entire month before August 15:

7/15 - 99.1
7/16 - 99.3
7/17 - 103.5
7/18 - 103.6
7/19 - 99
7/20 - 102.6
7/21 - 103.3
7/22 - 104.5
7/23 - 102.9
7/24 - 104.9
7/25 - 104.5
7/26 - 99.7
7/27 - 102.7
7/28 - 104.2
7/29 - 105.1
7/30 - 105.1
7/31 - 100.4
8/1 - 103.1
8/2 - 104.0
8/3 - 108.1
8/4 - 107.4
8/5 - 100.0
8/6 - 100.0
8/7 - 100.6
8/8 - 100.8
8/9 - 101.7
8/10 - 102.9
8/11 - 106.0
8/12 - 106.0
8/13 - 105.1
8/14 - 106.3
8/15 - 107.1

Source: Personal Weather Station Dashboard | Weather Underground

The corresponding temperatures at the Jerseydale Station were a few degrees lower, but still high 90s to low 100s.

So, Jon, Ellen, and Miju were like the Death Valley rangers, while most of us would be like the Chicago tourist. Physically, the three of them were different than us. They would feel cooler and be able to keep a normal core temperature for much longer than we would.

Now… throw in the facts that 1) at least 1/3 of their hiking route had them walking consistently alongside a river that had access points along the way, 2) that section of the river was upstream from the algal mats found at Hites Cove, 3) they had at least some water that we know of, and perhaps things like food and empty water bladders we haven’t heard about, and 4) they were all found together on trail.

Can ANYONE find a case of multiple outdoor heatstroke deaths (couples, hikers, etc) where the bodies were found within 200 yards of each other? I can’t.

Okay, commence the tomato throwing, lol.
<MOO>

 

[lotus777]

Agreed, I think the NYT was irresponsibly playing up the fear factor of “you can be prepared and do everything right and be super experienced and this can happen to YOU” to drive clicks.

Ah, you may be right. I took it as the journalist not understanding the difference between "adventurous travel" and "experienced hikers."

 

[lotus777]

It was not the heat, folks. Heatstroke didn’t kill them, full stop.
<snip>
This family lived there, and by all accounts spent a lot of time outdoors hiking in the weather. All of them, even the baby, were acclimated. Acclimating doesn’t mean you get used to feeling hot and uncomfortable- it means your body has made physical changes so that you DON’T feel hot and uncomfortable, you can stay cool more efficiently, and you are at not at high risk for heat injury or heatstroke.

Now, if they were like some residents of the California Foothills who spend most of the summer months inside in air-conditioning, that might alter my opinion. But that doesn’t sound like them.

So, Jon, Ellen, and Miju were like the Death Valley rangers, while most of us would be like the Chicago tourist. Physically, the three of them were different than us. They would feel cooler and be able to keep a normal core temperature for much longer than we would.

Now… throw in the facts that 1) at least 1/3 of their hiking route had them walking consistently alongside a river that had access points along the way, 2) that section of the river was upstream from the algal mats found at Hites Cove, 3) they had at least some water that we know of, and perhaps things like food and empty water bladders we haven’t heard about, and 4) they were all found together on trail.

Can ANYONE find a case of multiple outdoor heatstroke deaths (couples, hikers, etc) where the bodies were found within 200 yards of each other? I can’t.

You're overestimating the realities of acclimating to heat. Some temperatures and conditions are unsafe to hike in regardless of how accustomed one is to heat. There's a reason no one reported seeing them on the trail and why they weren't found for two days--because no one else was out there. Then add the incline, direct sun, and the fact that the father was carrying the baby, and you have extreme heat plus exertion, making it even more physically taxing.

That heat would be dangerous for any baby regardless of "acclimatization." The dog's fur made it dangerous for him too. One or both of them probably became distressed before the parents.

The water doesn't rule out heat stroke because it's an issue of core body temperature, not hydration. It would also be difficult to carry as much water as all four would have needed to stay hydrated under the conditions.

Them being found together is irrelevant. The baby couldn't get far without assistance. The dog was found tethered to the father. So that narrows "they were all found together" to "the parents were found 30 yards apart." Who knows what happened over the two days between the hike and when they were found.

Just because they were into adventure travel doesn't mean they didn't spend most of their time in air conditioning.

I do find it interesting that LE hasn't said more about the heat, but they also haven't ruled it out. They're obviously waiting for the toxicology results and don't want to jump to any conclusions before they know whether the algae was a factor.

ETA: I haven't seen anyone say LE is being "irresponsible" for not focusing on heat. I do think the NYT article was irresponsible for dismissing the possibility.

 

[rahod1]

So, if the thought is that this was a sequential death situation, and that perhaps the baby or dog succumbed first, how does water that could have been used to cool the victim get left in a container?

I’d be curious to know from others who have been in scary and traumatic heat situations if they too felt that instinct to reduce heat at all costs.

We don't know if they attempted to do just that at some point and were attempting to use it sparingly. They would also be required to use it for consumption as well. From what I recall, only a SMALL amount of water was left. Secondly, the water must be COOL enough to have any effect when applied externally. I doubt the water remained cool in these conditions. You can't just consider the extreme heat (which is verified) in this case. There was NO SHADE available and the trail was steep in the section they were found. These factors would exacerbate the conditions to intolerable levels. HEAT and these added conditions are #1 on my list. MOO

 

[SpideySense]

@SpideySense, I found your challenge and posts very intriguing. A google search yielded this (I am an Occam’s Razor girl): In 2020 in the US, there were 17 deaths attributed to lightning, and 323 deaths attributed to heat.

Fair enough, @Parsnip. But my challenge was asking someone to explain how in a sequential death, heatstroke scenario, whatever water they had on-hand would not have been used in a frantic effort to cool the victim down.

I don’t think the logic of “what’s more common” works here. Death scene investigation is based on the evidence at the scene, not frequency of occurrence. For example, in the US in 2019:
Deaths from homicide: 19,141
Deaths from cancer: 599,601

Using your logic, an investigator arriving at a scene where the deceased had a knife sticking out of his chest should conclude the death was caused by cancer.

 

[RedHaus]

Okay, commence the tomato throwing, lol.

Nice job, @SpideySense. I appreciate your tenacity, research and arguement. No tomatoes being thrown because I also don't believe heat stroke took the entire family that day, or perhaps any of them. That said, I think you are underestimating the arduous and nearly impossible conditions.

For many reasons, based on the odd set of data in our hands, I am of the opinion there are other viable theories of what happened to this poor family. But out of respect for WS TOS rules I am compelled to say nothing of those.

So I'll keep slogging through the heat stroke, cyanobacteria toxin and ground lightening theories because I value this sleuthing process and want to contribute what I can. And privately I'll keep working on my other theories.

 

[Parsnip]

@SpideySense Look on thread 1 for my narrative concerning the water. IMO, this is the best debate concerning lightning vs. heat-related death since our discussion began. I welcome your thoughts.

As for your cancer analogy, it is false.

 

[SpideySense]

Nice job, @SpideySense. I appreciate your tenacity, research and arguement. No tomatoes being thrown because I also don't believe heat stroke took the entire family that day, or perhaps any of them. That said, I think you are underestimating the arduous and nearly impossible conditions.

For many reasons, based on the odd set of data in our hands, I am of the opinion there are other viable theories of what happened to this poor family. But out of respect for WS TOS rules I am compelled to say nothing of those.

So I'll keep slogging through the heat stroke, cyanobacteria toxin and ground lightening theories because I value this sleuthing process and want to contribute what I can. And privately I'll keep working on my other theories.

Agreed, and I will be the first to humbly eat crow if the report comes back that it was indeed heatstroke. And, yes, there are definitely other possibilities that wouldn’t be right to discuss or opine about.

 

[Tower]

One article reported a quote from LE that she was in a “kangaroo” bag, so that’s why I’m assuming that she was pressed up against dad’s back or chest (essentially a 98-100 degree warming pad). The sheriff made a reference to the baby not being “tied” to her father when found dead, so it must have been a tie-on carrier rather than a more structured one that tends to provide better ventilation. Family is found dead on a trail without signs of violence

Quote from article: “The sheriff said Miju was “in a kangaroo bag close to her father, but not tied to her father,” and Hellen [sic] was located about 30 meters away. Their dog, Oksi, was lying next to the baby.”

Sadly, there was a case of infant heat exhaustion and death in the winter when a mother put her child on a heating pad, no doubt trying to keep her comfortable. Even though the apt. was cold, the close proximity to a heat source was fatal. Miju was exposed to high ambient temps plus high “localized” temps against her body.

Imo, Miju would have been too hot in either carrier, but upthread we had discussion that the MSM source quoting “kangaroo bag” appeared to unreliable. Evidenced also by misspelling Ellen’s name as “Hellen.” I also believe the dog was “Oski,” not “Oksi.” Jmo, I saw a photo on day 1 of thread 1 of a backpack baby carrier, but cannot confirm it was Miju’s. Again, the details have been reported more often as a backpack carrier, but I do not believe we have 100% LE confirmation.
'Unknown hazards' found by trail where Calif. family found dead

 

[rahod1]

Can ANYONE find a case of multiple outdoor heatstroke deaths (couples, hikers, etc) where the bodies were found within 200 yards of each other? I can’t.

Okay, commence the tomato throwing, lol.

Don't know about the *200 Yds* but this situation fit's the bill on multiple heat strokes. The son also had symptoms but was saved.

French couple dies in New Mexico desert; son survives | CNN

 

[SpideySense]

@SpideySense Look on thread 1 for my narrative concerning the water. IMO, this is the best debate concerning lightning vs. heat-related death since our discussion began. I welcome your thoughts.

As for your cancer analogy, it is false.

I actually DID read those posts a few days ago when I first found this thread. I specifically remember your reference to “facts not in evidence” and thought you might be an attorney like me, lol.

You wrote a sensitive and detailed and compelling narrative of what might have happened, and yes, you mentioned the water might have been used to cool whomever was suffering. I mean no disrespect to the thought and time and consideration anyone here has given to this case.

You did ask back then why the baby would have still been in the carrier. When initial reports came in, but before scene details were released, I went with LE’s thoughts about possible haz mat. All I can say is all that went out the window and the scene instantly made perfect sense to me once I read where and how they were found, and their positioning.

In my eyes, they were found in classic “lightning crouch” or lightning safety positioning, exposed on a switchback with nothing else to do except reduce their profile. IMO baby was found still in the carrier because Dad whipped off her high-profile carrier and placed it beside him. Dog was beside them because Dad didn’t want it walking around and possibly attracting lightning. Dad assumed crouch, and when his heart stopped, his body gently rocked back to sitting. Mom was doing what you’re supposed to do, which is separate from others. Maybe the ground current hit her before she crouched, or maybe her body collapsed more fully flat after death. MOO

 

[SpideySense]

Don't know about the *200 Yds* but this situation fit's the bill on multiple heat strokes. The son also had symptoms but was saved.

French couple dies in New Mexico desert; son survives | CNN

The two deceased individuals in that case were found 2300 feet apart, or roughly 767 yards. And importantly, they were BOTH off trail.

 

[Lexiintoronto]

If you look at the IG post (Login • Instagram), she is not talking about how sad she is to leave the corporate life or bemoaning the fact that she'll never work for a company again because she's ill. In fact, what she says is that the diagnosis led her to pursue a life with more meaning, intent, and mindfulness. And she was doing that - getting her 500 hour yoga teacher training (Satori Yoga Studio) and enrolled at CIIS for grad school.

Thank you, I understand. I didn’t write anything about her being sad or bemoaning anything.

My post was in response to the poster (and others) who may be questioning whether a person with a chronic or life-altering medical diagnosis would attempt that type of hike.

My answer is yes. As with some chronic illnesses, the symptoms ebb and flow at times so patients learn to seize moments when they feel able.

They may not be able to work a 9-5 job, and having to alter your life to give that up may feel completely liberating. It sounds as if she adapted well to whatever illness she had been dealt. (Teaching yoga, furthering her education and starting a family.)

 

[MaryG12]

Back to heat stroke for a moment...if it was the case of two adults, then it may be possible. That does not include the baby or dog factors.

Babies (and young children in general) from what I could find are more likely to die of heat stroke from being locked in a hot car (there's always a bunch of cases every year):

Children left in cars can die of heatstroke in minutes

As for the poor dog:

Heat stroke - a common, life-threatening condition

"Unlike us humans, dogs and cats don't respond to heat in the same way."
............................................

At the present, I'm still in the lightning camp.

 

[Angleterre]

Welcome to Websleuths, SpideySense! You've made a very astute observation here. I live in Florida and have seen how lightning hits directly at ground level - it's pretty scary to see!

Lightning Science: Five Ways Lightning Strikes People

If this was in fact the cause - maybe ground current? How awful for the family if this is what happened.

Really appreciated reading the attachment- thank you

 

[MaryG12]

Don't know about the *200 Yds* but this situation fit's the bill on multiple heat strokes. The son also had symptoms but was saved.

French couple dies in New Mexico desert; son survives | CNN

From the link:

"He added, “I just think they weren’t prepared for that type of heat. I just think they underestimated the desert.”"

Like the German family who died in Death Valley in 1996? In both cases, during the hot summer months. Yes, even American deserts are unforgiving.

 

[Angleterre]

Hi everyone. Newbie here, and like you all, this case has fascinated me from the get-go.

Has anyone commented that their bodies were found in positions consistent with the “lightning crouch”? I’ve known since a youngster in my Sierra backpacking days that when lightning is nearby, you remove any high-profile metal gear like backpacks (or in this case, babycarrier), get a distance from others (Mom 30 yards away), and you crouch down with heels touching and ears covered. When I read that Dad was found sitting with the baby next to him still in the pack and the dog there too, it just felt obvious he had ripped off his pack, crouched down, and held the dog down so it wouldn’t be a canine lightning rod. Mom did the right thing by increasing distance. But everything reads that they were all taken simultaneously through a ground current strike.

There was recorded lighting activity in the area that day (Source: blitzortung.org) Between around 4:38 and 6:25pm, there were 4 recorded strikes roughly 25 miles east of the family’s location. I’ve attached screenshots, but you can go to the website and play around with the time and date inputs. That website admits it doesn’t receive data on all strikes - its data comes from volunteers who may or may not have their detection devices on at any given time.

But assuming that same weather system was to the west overhead the family 30 minutes to an hour earlier, then lightning becomes a distinct possibility. Contrary to what others have said, ground current strikes often don’t leave traumatic injuries like direct strikes do. No torn off clothing, exploded shoes, long burn marks, etc. By the time they were found after nearly 48 hours exposed in hot weather and sun, it might be very difficult to clearly distinguish subtle entry/exit marks or singed skin in an initial autopsy.

And for anyone not convinced of the terrible, deadly power of the ground current released by lightning, over 300 reindeer in Norway dropped dead from cardiac arrest instantaneously due to ground current from a single lightning strike. https://www.cnn.com/cnn/2016/08/29/europe/reindeer-killed-lightning-trnd/index.html

I have a very different narrative of that day that I hope is true, and that I believe is based on what LE and friends are saying about them. They were knowledgeable and well-prepared. They knew the area. They were loving and doting parents and pet owners. They probably knew it would be very hot. They probably knew there was a “Caution” about algae at the Hites Cove section of the river. By the way, a toxic algae “Caution” is the first advisory level above “None” (i.e. no concern) and is below the next two advisory levels, “Warning” and “Danger.” (Source: My Water Quality: California Harmful Algal Blooms (HABs)

Nobody thinks “Let’s go on an 8.5 mile hike in 100+ degree weather and subject our baby and dog to torment and possible death.” But they might think “Let’s spend this miserably hot day down at the river, soaking and splashing in the cool mountain water and resting under streamside shade.” So they start the hike early with food and water for the day, and they arrive down at the river between 9 and 10am when it’s in the 80s or 90s. They say know about the algae situation, so they follow the loop 2 or 3 miles upstream to be well away from it. Then, they spend the next several hours just enjoying the day, soaking themselves and the baby and the dog, maybe even napping in wet clothes in some shade. Around 4pm, they decide to hike up the switchbacks to their car. They are in a deep canyon and those switchbacks are on an east-south face, so the trail up might have very well been in the shade for some time, depending on when the sun passed over the peak. Maybe they all took one last good soak and started the switchbacks with wet clothes and wet fur. Maybe the evaporation and the lack of direct sunshine kept them all pretty comfortable. No one had to suffer. No paws had to burn.

But then, halfway up, perhaps the sky above the crest they were climbing darkened. Perhaps they heard a nearby thunder clap, or the rocks around them started to hum, or they tasted metal, or their hair started to stand up. Perhaps they got some warning that, being exposed on the face of a high peak with no cover, they needed to quickly prepare for a lightning strike.

I’m really hoping this is what happened, despite how tragic it is. It would have been quick. And it would preserve their integrity and reputation as informed, loving people who did everything right, but were simply caught in the wrong place at the wrong time.

Heatstroke just doesn’t seem to match the scene. They were together, on the trail. People with heatstroke get it at different times, and they get weird. They usually wander. They’re typically not found on trail. These folks had water, which is significant not because of dehydration, but because anyone witnessing a heat emergency in a loved one (which is very distressing from my own experience) would be dumping whatever water was available on the person, or on clothing to wrap around their neck, or on the animal to cool them down. Whoever still had their wits about them would NOT think “I’ll just watch my loved one suffer because this remaining water might come in handy uptrail,” MOO.

Welcome to WS ‘
@SpideySense! Your post is a riveting read and I think you are onto something here. The attachments are fascinating too - thank you