CA - Jonathan Gerrish, Ellen Chung, daughter, 1 & dog, suspicious death hiking area, Aug 2021 #3

[Lexiintoronto]

Ok, so the Mariposa Sheriff's Office does a monthly Facebook Live video update, "Inside the Office with Sheriff Jeremy Briese."
This is the latest update, from September 2. Link: Log In or Sign Up to View (I think you have to be logged into FB to see it). The update is about 30 minutes long.

• 12:30-14:50 Sheriff Briese talks about the Gerrish / Chung case
  • He says the detectives are working around the clock with multiple other agencies.
  • He says that the FBI is helping as well.
• 13:50 or so he says a water sample came back positive with "high levels" of Anatoxin-a. (Anatoxin-a - Wikipedia) They are working with state and Federal partners.
• 18:15 - Q&A begins - several relevant questions
• 18:26 - Question: "Is toxicology results back?" He says some individual toxicology results are in, but they still do not have an exact cause of death yet.
• 22:45 - Question "Have there been any reports of livestock succumbing due to the Harmful Algae Bloom?" They have not.

Thank you for this. This seems to be the video:

To view this content we will need your consent to set third party cookies.
For more detailed information, see our cookies page.

Accept third party cookies

 

[EndoraXplorer]

Thank you for finding the direct link, @Lexiintoronto! I Googled for it and failed.

 

[SpideySense]

MOO

After watching the briefing from Sheriff Briese, I’ve scratched toxic algae completely off the list of remotely possible factors in this case. He didn’t recall the name of the toxin . It can’t be a high priority for him.

Seems to confirm for me that in the course of the investigation they got data that is not material to the case, but that is required to be reported to the public for purposes of water quality disclosures.

MOO

 

[woods]

“Is toxicology results back?"
Sheriff Briese: “For the individuals, some are, yes, but we still do not have an exact cause of death yet.”

Is anyone else confused by this response?

 

[SpideySense]

“Is toxicology results back?"
Sheriff Briese: “For the individuals, some are, yes, but we still do not have an exact cause of death yet.”

Is anyone else confused by this response?

MOO

My interpretation of that statement is: We’ve gotten some back and they’ve been negative for a COD. But we still are waiting on others. We’re not prepared to issue a COD until we see the results of those tests.

MOO

 

[Officer Dibble]

What if they were doubly unlucky? Suppose the baby shows signs of being overcome by heat, so the whole family plunges into the river to cool her off. Then they proceed on their hike and die of toxic algae down the trail.

Yes I wondered exactly this over the weekend too.

 

[Deleted member 292879]

OK, I've been doing some more digging into illegal marijuana grow-ops for this case. The fact that this is such widespread illegal activity in CA will be no surprise to you. But the widespread use of CARBOFURAN may be.

I think this theory, or some kind of pesticide/grow-op complication, has an outside chance. I read something in the early days of this tragedy from a hazmat expert (not related to the case) about how an area recently sprayed with pesticides is generally considered hazmat for the purposes of a crime scene cleanup.

Given that Savage-Lundy is more popular for hikers than the Hite Cove OHV Trail/full loop (basing this on AllTrails), I would say they would have had a greater chance of encountering someone or something if they had gone down the OHV trail first. This is only my speculation, but it seems to me that a grow op would be set up somewhere that its owners could easily access by ATV or similar. I can't see growers hiking up and down Savage-Lundy to access their op.

<modsnip>

 

[Officer Dibble]

OK, I've been doing some more digging into illegal marijuana grow-ops for this case. The fact that this is such widespread illegal activity in CA will be no surprise to you. But the widespread use of CARBOFURAN may be.

1. Could this family have inadvertently come across or been exposed to Carbofuran - a pesticide lethal to animals?

2. Could it have been Carbofuran exposure to Oski or any family member that started the catastrophic cascade?

3. Could that explain the use of HazMat suits by LE when they first investigated the scene (per MSM)?

4. Could this explain the recent precautions taken by local LE citing potential "hazard(s)" found on/near the trail?

This Brutal Pesticide Creates a 'Circle of Death.' So Why Is It Making a Comeback?

"Wanting to see the sites for himself, Gabriel accompanied an armed officer and two other researchers to a location known as Mill Creek on the Hoopa Valley Reservation. Winding along the banks of a salmon stream—deep in a gorge where Gabriel had once radio-collared gray foxes—they came upon a denuded patch of forest where 130-year-old tanoaks once stood. The growers had felled the trees and planted thousands of pot plants up to the creek’s edge. Now that police had confiscated the marijuana, all that was left was barren land littered with irrigation lines and refuse. The group found food, sleeping bags, tents, sprayers, trash pits, and stashes of toxicants—including rat poison and a bottle of carbofuran.

“It was a witches’ brew,” Gabriel says. “We were like, ‘Wow, this isn’t some little foray,’ like back in the day when a guy would hike down the trail, water his plants, and leave. People were living down here. Then we walked another trail and found another plot, and another. We didn’t even cover half of it all that day. There are hundreds of these sites.”

To document the problem, Gabriel and his colleagues now work side by side with officers as they raid plots guarded by armed growers. The scientists dress in camouflage and wear face paint; Gabriel carries a gun. “This isn’t bravado,” he says. “We want to go home at the end of the day.”

Often the teams encounter Gatorade bottles filled with carbofuran and tuna tins stuffed with carbofuran-tainted meat. The labels on jugs of chemical are frequently in Spanish, indicating they were smuggled from Mexico. Gabriel questions the growers on site, after they’ve been arrested, and some have admitted to using carbofuran to keep animals from rampaging their camps because, they say, it worked great for getting rid of jaguars preying on livestock back home in Mexico.

The scientists’ bold field work is paying off, if only to document a compounding problem. In 2013 they discovered carbofuran at 20 percent of the raided sites. Just six years later it’s been found at more than 80 percent of them. Gabriel suspects the growers are increasingly using carbofuran not just because of its potency with animals, but also with law enforcement: Media outlets have reported officers exposed to the chemical being hospitalized for nausea, blurry vision, and migraines."

Sheriff’s sergeant Nathan Trujillo, a member of the Trinity County Crimes Unit who has been working with Gabriel’s team for about seven years, has had some close calls on the raids. In 2015, for instance, he and his K9 Johnny were going into an area where a forester had reported an illegal grow site. “We kept seeing pink tuna cans along the trail,” he says. “In the camp, we found a bottle of carbofuran, open and empty.” After splashing through some water, Johnny seized up, started foaming at the mouth, and then vomiting. Trujillo rushed the dog to the vet. “I don’t know how they saved him, but they did,” he says. “You used to worry about getting shot or breaking a leg in a canyon. Now you have to worry about this almost invisible weapon these guys have.”

That is a good share. Thanks.

 

[MsBetsy]

“Is toxicology results back?"
Sheriff Briese: “For the individuals, some are, yes, but we still do not have an exact cause of death yet.”

Is anyone else confused by this response?

I think they are just waiting for all the results before determining COD. It could be that so far there is no indication that any of them came into contact with toxins but they want to be sure before ruling it out.

LE probably needs to know each individual COD and possible contributing factors, as well as when they died, before putting the final pieces of the puzzle together.

It sounds like it won't be much longer until the autopsy reports are complete.

 

[MissUnderstood]

Is there an urge to undress if you have heat exhaustion? Would there be vomiting if poisoned? Not sure we are privy to what was found at the scene. Moo

 

[mickey2942]

River closes after Northern California family dies while hiking nearby

Now, the entire river system is closed.

 

[arrogantcat]

River closes after Northern California family dies while hiking nearby

Now, the entire river system is closed.

Can anyone with local knowledge comment on how unusual this course of action is? Have whole rivers been closed to the public in the past?

I’m struggling to believe the toxicity of the water is irrelevant here. I can envision a scenario where the adults might drink from the river, quickly develop vomiting, lose precious fluids and then succumbing to the heat and exertion more quickly than anticipated.

 

[MsBetsy]

Is there an urge to undress if you have heat exhaustion? Would there be vomiting if poisoned? Not sure we are privy to what was found at the scene. Moo

I think people react differently to heat exhaustion. I've heard cases where people do undress to cool down. Many people become confused and disoriented.

My aunt had heat exhaustion and kept insisting she was fine until the moment she collapsed. Symptoms can come on very quickly or over time.

As far as poisoning, I think it depends on whether the person ingested toxic water or it came into contact with their skin. Rashes and blisters are common after coming into contact with algae bloom. I would think vomiting would be a symptom if ingested.

Whatever happened, I think the heat played a large role. Even if they had to slow down because one or more became ill, by 5:00 pm it was reportedly around 107 degrees.

 

[MsBetsy]

Can anyone with local knowledge comment on how unusual this course of action is? Have whole rivers been closed to the public in the past?

I’m struggling to believe the toxicity of the water is irrelevant here. I can envision a scenario where the adults might drink from the river, quickly develop vomiting, lose precious fluids and then succumbing to the heat and exertion more quickly than anticipated.

I don't think the entire river is closed. I thought as of Friday they closed off 28 miles as a precaution. I'm wondering if that part of the river is particularly shallow.

 

[Deleted member 292879]

If Sheriff Briese says one water test (so far) came back positive for Anatoxin-A (otherwise known as Very Fast Death Factor), I don't think this can be ruled out yet as a factor. From what I've read, there's only one reported case of a human dying from Anatoxin-A in the US, from jumping into a pond contaminated with it. He was 17. But it is much more widely known to be fast-acting and lethal in dogs.

It's tough to surmise what happened here, even with this new video from the SO, but are we entering an era where we're going to see more illness and death from Anatoxin-A, due to low water levels exacerbated by climate change?

ETA: Of course we still don't know if they even drank, let alone touched, the water that tested positive.

 

[NSamuelle]

Is there an urge to undress if you have heat exhaustion? Would there be vomiting if poisoned? Not sure we are privy to what was found at the scene. Moo

I’m not an expert on heatstroke (HS), but with hypothermia there is a paradoxical urge to remove clothing. People have been found naked in Siberia having froze to death. In hyperthermia, I’ve read some very sad reports about how children react when locked in hot cars, which can include tearing their own hair out. That there were no marks on Miju doesn’t rule on HS, though.

Vomiting depends on the poison and factors like how fast-acting it is. It can be hard to find, but if they had nothing in their stomachs that could be a clue.

 

[Mamamerced]

River closes after Northern California family dies while hiking nearby

Now, the entire river system is closed.

Not the entire river...28 miles.

Excerpt: SAN FRANCISCO - The mysterious deaths of a Northern California family of hikers and their dog have led federal officials to close 28 miles along the Merced River, where high levels of toxic algae were detected.

 

[Parsnip]

Being a pragmatist, I find the best supporting evidence that lightning played a role in this family’s tragedy is the unusual locations of their bodies, which suggests that they all died at approximately the same time. However, we do not know that to be the case, and many sleuths (myself included) have posited very plausible reasons for the family members to have succumbed to something at different times while still having been found in (relatively) close proximity.

Lightning also fails the “unlucky” test. In order for all of them to have died by lightning, the following would have to be true: 1) Both adults died (leaving out the dog and baby because of their dependence) in spite of the fact that 90% of people survive strikes; 2) The strike was unusual in that it was never recorded; 3) The circumstances were unusual in that LE and ME reported no evidence at the scene of burns/marks, etc; nor were any reported to be on the bodies. The probability that all of this occurred for this family seems extraordinarily low.

Furthermore, there are supportive facts that suggest a cascade of events leading to this family’s demise, namely: 1) It was very hot for at least some, if not all of their hike; 2) There are known toxins detected in the water near the family’s hike; 3) Heat, like poisoning affects individuals in varying ways, at varying times, depending on level of exposure, metabolism, preexisting conditions, etc.; 4) That the family was unable (unlike so many fortunate people) to get help because of the remoteness of the location, lack of cell service, and the rigor of the trail they were on.

MOO

 

[happyday]

If Sheriff Briese says one water test (so far) came back positive for Anatoxin-A (otherwise known as Very Fast Death Factor), I don't think this can be ruled out yet as a factor. From what I've read, there's only one reported case of a human dying from Anatoxin-A in the US, from jumping into a pond contaminated with it. He was 17. But it is much more widely known to be fast-acting and lethal in dogs.

It's tough to surmise what happened here, even with this new video from the SO, but are we entering an era where we're going to see more illness and death from Anatoxin-A, due to low water levels exacerbated by climate change?

ETA: Of course we still don't know if they even drank, let alone touched, the water that tested positive.

I totally agree with you. I’m coming around to thinking toxic algae might be more likely than I originally thought. We already knew there were toxic algae blooms in the area waters b/c there were warnings. But now we have a positive sample for the VFDF in the area. Obviously we don’t know if they interacted with it, but it’s a big deal IMO that this Anatoxin-A is indeed a possibility.

As someone mentioned earlier, it would be very useful and interesting to know if they typically filtered water while hiking and if they had a water filter with them that day. Filters wouldn’t filter out toxic algae, but they might not have known that. I sure didn’t!

Or even worse, if they were desperate and drank the water unfiltered or just didn’t understand the risks of doing that.

I’m still trying to figure out if the toxicology will tell if there was Anatoxin-A in their systems or not. Because if not how will they ever know if that’s what killed them? I also believe the heat likely played a role.

 

[NSamuelle]

I totally agree with you. I’m coming around to thinking toxic algae might be more likely than I originally thought. We already knew there were toxic algae blooms in the area waters b/c there were warnings. But now we have a positive sample for the VFDF in the area. Obviously we don’t know if they interacted with it, but it’s a big deal IMO that this Anatoxin-A is indeed a possibility.

As someone mentioned earlier, it would be very useful and interesting to know if they typically filtered water while hiking and if they had a water filter with them that day. Filters wouldn’t filter out toxic algae, but they might not have known that. I sure didn’t!

Or even worse, if they were desperate and drank the water unfiltered or just didn’t understand the risks of doing that.

I’m still trying to figure out if the toxicology will tell if there was Anatoxin-A in their systems or not. Because if not how will they ever know if that’s what killed them? I also believe the heat likely played a role.

I’m inclined to think the bodies did not test positive for Anatoxin-A because the sheriff said they have some toxicology results but no COD yet - I think Anatoxin-A (or more accurately, its metabolites or however it shows up on tox) would be one of the first things they’d test for, so those results would be in after 2+ weeks.

Of course, they could have a positive result and be awaiting further tox before declaring COD, but then why not mention the positive result (which would be a matter of public health)?