CA - Jonathan Gerrish, Ellen Chung, daughter, 1 & dog, suspicious death hiking area, Aug 2021 #3

[SpideySense]

BBM

Hi @Parsnip. I may have found the answer to your question! Since JG's phone was in his shirt pocket and is being analyzed by the FBI, per LE, I suspect it was not melted or burned. As such, this may derail the lightning strike theory a bit...

...there is a misconception that cell phones attract lightning, John Jensenius, lightning safety specialist for the National Weather Service, said. If someone is struck by lightning and they have a cell phone on them, it will usually melt or burn. People have taken that and blamed the cell phone, Jensenius said, but in reality it is unrelated.

https://www.accuweather.com/en/weat...-your-cell-phone-during-a-thunderstorm/328975

That’s definitely the case with direct lightning strikes. Cell phones, watches, jewelry can melt because the air where the strike hits superheats instantly, causing burns on the victim’s skin, singed hair, and melted clothes/metal.

But I’m not sure what would happen if the person is electrocuted by ground current from a lightning strike. I guess the closest analogy might be, what happens to a phone in your pocket if you stick your finger in a light socket? Does it become part of the current and do its electronics “fry”? Or does it stay outside the circuit and remain untouched?

I don’t know the answer to that one.

MOO

 

[SpideySense]

Man, they’ve got that fighting, competitive spirit. Even after such an intense percussive explosion, many of them pop right back up and try to keep playing, although they seem to succumb a few moments later.

OFF TOPIC
I know, right?! I wonder if they even knew what happened to them in the moment.

One comment said something like, “That’s the only time you’ll see footballers take a legitimate flop!” Lol.

 

[RedHaus]

Mines
@eptichka83 did research on old mines in the area, given JG had posted in his AllTrails logs information about mines he had visited. I thought I'd bring forward two of Eptichka83's posts in case anyone is interested in exploring further.
RS&BMM

T#2, P#292, @eptichka83:
...I went to a site called westernmininghistory.com, a database, with maps, of what they claim to be every mine in the western US, and located three mines on the route the family took. One was slightly off Hite Cove Road, while the other two were directly on their path: at the Merced River, and at the base of Savage-Lundy. The mines are called Liberty Lode (manganese), Blossom #1 (gold) and Devils Gulch (gold). I have screenshotted a map of all three: imgur.com.
Source: Mining Towns in the Western United States

T#2, P#400, @eptichka83:
If (big if) they explored one or more mines, the first is off Hite Cove Road [Liberty Lode], back a bit from the fork that goes off to Marble Canyon to the left and Savage-Lundy to the right. Seeing the mine would mean walking off the trail.
Blossom #1 mine is about halfway point on the loop, along the Merced River, steps off the trail. Devils Gulch mine is at the base of Savage-Lundy, but appears to be across the water, steps from the water’s edge... with three in their vicinity, I’m not convinced yet that the mines weren’t connected to what happened.

And here is an image of the map Eptichka83 linked to above (imgur.com). I circled the Liberty Lode mine.

What if the family's intent had been to go down Hites Cove Trail to Liberty Lode mine to explore it (hence perhaps some footprints down part of HC trail), and then turn around and go home before it got unbearably hot.

And if they did this little jaunt, could something unexpected have gone terribly wrong? Maybe Oski ran off after the scent of something - some animal, some human? Maybe the family went after Oski... Maybe Oski ran into a grow ops.

That's as far as I get with that theory... So I'll leave it at that in case anyone else wants to play further with this...

 

[jonjon747]

Well, hopefully we will know the COD soon. Heat exhaustion can come on very quickly. Every individual reacts differently and they may have become disoriented or they may have been functional and aware of their surroundings until they couldn't physically go on anymore. Not all heatstroke victims wander and not all become confused. They may have only had physical symptoms before they lost consciousness.

I have a little problem with both heat related and lightning strike theories.
The dog next to the man found in seated position speaks volume for their instant event of something we don't know yet.
Whether the dog was leashed or not, found dead right next to the man is just bizarre, either the dog didn't wander around much or later came back stayed next to him.
We'd have to assume at this point, either the woman was always leading the way for the group or she was the last to die.

If it was a heat related cause, they'd be most likely found scattered around in loss of direction, I mean forget the baby and the dog, their minds are at lost their bodies are overheated.

If it was a lightning related cause, between the woman and her family were about 20 meters apart which implies the lightning effect was pretty wide and strong which is kind of a rare event to happen with no rain.
Lightning theory also supports the assumption that the woman was leading the group, which in that case, she was the last one to die.
But then why didn't she take the phone in the man's pocket and water?
That's why I see lightning as the COD highly unlikely.
I'm leaning toward a sudden, violent, instant death maybe all within 10 seconds or less because the man was in seated position as #1 reason, dog next to him as #2 and woman 20 meters away as #3 reason.

 

[willyengland]

Why is the man in seated position a problem <modsnip> ?
Possibly he was carrying the baby AND the dog and he sat down for a rest, completely exhausted.

 

[jonjon747]

Why is the man in seated position a problem for you?
Possibly he was carrying the baby AND the dog and he sat down for a rest, completely exhausted.

I don't think it's common to see exhausted person die in seated position without falling to one side.
Wouldn't exhaustion cause someone to usually lie down or fall forward, facing ground?

 

[jonjon747]

No particular attraction to it, except possibly for mines in the area, that Jonathan liked to explore. And the river at the bottom of the trail, which is known to have a good swimming hole, but that attraction was cancelled out when the Forest Service put up the algae warning a month before they took the hike.

Still, at the peak of summer heat and after a fire in the area a couple of years prior, it's hard to undnerstand the decision to do that particular hike that day/week/month. When I saw the photo of the SAR helicopter flying over where they were found, I thought the area looked lie a moonscape. Not the kind of place for a family outing, IMO.

Exactly, that was the impression I got about the location where they were found. A steep hill that they had to go through seems extremely over ambitious especially with the baby and dog it just seems something's not right.
At first, something like a staged homicide was a possibility in my mind but looked too perfect to carry out such a crazy complicated task is very unlikely.
I keep getting the thought that they got lost somehow at some point hiking up the hill and ended up in a twilight zone.

 

[MsBetsy]

Why is the man in seated position a problem for you?
Possibly he was carrying the baby AND the dog and he sat down for a rest, completely exhausted.

Yes, he may have been sitting up to try to stay awake or just lost consciousness while resting there.

 

[Ruthbullock]

Seeing these images I would say that it is extremely improbable that they drank from this brew. Perhaps the dog, but not the humans, esp. the baby.

Would they have to drink it though? What would occur if a wet dog rubbed up against you, or licked you.

 

[Owlpellet]

Would they have to drink it though? What would occur if a wet dog rubbed up against you, or licked you.

Or shook themselves dry beside you?

 

[Parsnip]

For those of you who enjoy Podcasts, I am listening the one today called “The Fine Line”, episode 23, “Struck by Lightning on the Grand Teton.” As I was searching yesterday for information about the effects of lightning on cell phones, I discovered a SAR effort that took place in 2010 on the Grand that I don’t recall ever having heard about before. Three groups of climbers were stuck on the mountain during a severe storm and were struck multiple times. I won’t share the outcome here, jic you want to look it up for yourself, but as near as I can tell, the climbers’ phones were in their packs and not on their persons during the strikes.

@RedHaus , thanks for the info! Once I started reading about the Teton incident, I veered off track.

 

[MsBetsy]

I have a little problem with both heat related and lightning strike theories.
The dog next to the man found in seated position speaks volume for their instant event of something we don't know yet.
Whether the dog was leashed or not, found dead right next to the man is just bizarre, either the dog didn't wander around much or later came back stayed next to him.
We'd have to assume at this point, either the woman was always leading the way for the group or she was the last to die.

If it was a heat related cause, they'd be most likely found scattered around in loss of direction, I mean forget the baby and the dog, their minds are at lost their bodies are overheated.

If it was a lightning related cause, between the woman and her family were about 20 meters apart which implies the lightning effect was pretty wide and strong which is kind of a rare event to happen with no rain.
Lightning theory also supports the assumption that the woman was leading the group, which in that case, she was the last one to die.
But then why didn't she take the phone in the man's pocket and water?
That's why I see lightning as the COD highly unlikely.
I'm leaning toward a sudden, violent, instant death maybe all within 10 seconds or less because the man was in seated position as #1 reason, dog next to him as #2 and woman 20 meters away as #3 reason.

I think both theories are possible. Indirect lightning strikes are more common than direct strikes and could explain the distance between them. Maybe the steep incline of the hill prevented Jonathan from falling backwards.

I also think toxins may have played a role. I doubt they drank the water but they could have come into contact with algae bloom if they went in the river to cool off. It could even be that a combination of factors caused their deaths.

Maybe the dog drank the water, became sick, and had to be carried some of the way. Or maybe the dog or baby died from heatstroke first and the rest eventually suffered the same fate. If Ellen was the last to die, it's possible she died while attempting to go for help.

 

[Arise]

Or shook themselves dry beside you?

I would think that if a few drops of toxic algae water on the skin was enough to kill two healthy adults, there would be deaths already associated with it.

 

[Arise]

Mines
@eptichka83 did research on old mines in the area, given JG had posted in his AllTrails logs information about mines he had visited. I thought I'd bring forward two of Eptichka83's posts in case anyone is interested in exploring further.
RS&BMM

T#2, P#292, @eptichka83:
...I went to a site called westernmininghistory.com, a database, with maps, of what they claim to be every mine in the western US, and located three mines on the route the family took. One was slightly off Hite Cove Road, while the other two were directly on their path: at the Merced River, and at the base of Savage-Lundy. The mines are called Liberty Lode (manganese), Blossom #1 (gold) and Devils Gulch (gold). I have screenshotted a map of all three: imgur.com.
Source: Mining Towns in the Western United States

T#2, P#400, @eptichka83:
If (big if) they explored one or more mines, the first is off Hite Cove Road [Liberty Lode], back a bit from the fork that goes off to Marble Canyon to the left and Savage-Lundy to the right. Seeing the mine would mean walking off the trail.
Blossom #1 mine is about halfway point on the loop, along the Merced River, steps off the trail. Devils Gulch mine is at the base of Savage-Lundy, but appears to be across the water, steps from the water’s edge... with three in their vicinity, I’m not convinced yet that the mines weren’t connected to what happened.

And here is an image of the map Eptichka83 linked to above (imgur.com). I circled the Liberty Lode mine.

View attachment 311782

What if the family's intent had been to go down Hites Cove Trail to Liberty Lode mine to explore it (hence perhaps some footprints down part of HC trail), and then turn around and go home before it got unbearably hot.

And if they did this little jaunt, could something unexpected have gone terribly wrong? Maybe Oski ran off after the scent of something - some animal, some human? Maybe the family went after Oski... Maybe Oski ran into a grow ops.

That's as far as I get with that theory... So I'll leave it at that in case anyone else wants to play further with this...

I wonder if one of the mines could be the hazard off the trail that LE referred to.

 

[rosesfromangels]

I wonder if one of the mines could be the hazard off the trail that LE referred to.

It would seem nothing is off the plate at this point, so possible. I still would like to see additional toxicology tests run to rule out poisons that are hard to trace. That's a box that I haven't heard fully checked yet. Highly unlikely, but given the mysterious nature of these deaths, should be further explored.

Amateur opinion and speculation

 

[jonjon747]

I think both theories are possible. Indirect lightning strikes are more common than direct strikes and could explain the distance between them. Maybe the steep incline of the hill prevented Jonathan from falling backwards.

I also think toxins may have played a role. I doubt they drank the water but they could have come into contact with algae bloom if they went in the river to cool off. It could even be that a combination of factors caused their deaths.

Maybe the dog drank the water, became sick, and had to be carried some of the way. Or maybe the dog or baby died from heatstroke first and the rest eventually suffered the same fate. If Ellen was the last to die, it's possible she died while attempting to go for help.

When there are too many variety of reasons to have caused their death, that's most unlikely the answer to the real cause.

Because I have a far simpler and reasonable scenario than all the theories many are putting out here.

Acute oxygen deprivation - they hiked through an high altitude gulch region where oxygen is severely lacking and atmosphere pressure is high causing them to fight for life.

I don't know if anyone has mentioned this theory yet but not sure it'd show up in their autopsies.

 

[fred&edna]

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[wary]

I would think that if a few drops of toxic algae water on the skin was enough to kill two healthy adults, there would be deaths already associated with it.

As I see it, it’s not a ‘kill or harmless’ situation. Since they were hiking in conditions where the heat could easily kill them, anything that could have slowed them down or made them feel sick could have contributed to their deaths.

 

[RedHaus]

And... there are "1,401 mines in Mariposa County, California". That's a lot of mines!!!
Mariposa County, California Mines

I don't think anyone is suggesting they would take the baby or dog close to a mine. The mines have been discussed over the course of our three threads here, and a few of us have noticed that Jonathan hiked to two mines earlier in 2021, Comet Mine and Sweetwater Peak/Mine, that are not known to be hiking attractions or listed in AllTrails or any other hiking resource that I searched (see his AllTrails history here). If this was an interest of his on the day they perished, I can see him checking them out on his own, with the others at a safe distance. MOO.

The fact is, I emailed the sheriff's office about the three mines on and near the trail and they responded on Aug 27 telling me they were going to check them out. Make of that what you will. I still think it's highly unlikely the mines contributed to their deaths, but it may have been a reason they chose to explore that trail. MOO again.

I agree @eptichka83 . And thanks again for reaching out to LE. If the mines played any role, IMO, it would be indirect as I postulated ^^^. .. the idea they wondered of the path into something that poisoned them or weakened them, perhaps chasing Oski who may have run off while the family was off-piste exploring around a mine.

 

[MissUnderstood]

If lightning caused three people to die in quick succession wouldn’t the autopsy had shown something to prove that? Or, evidence be found at the scene?