CA - Jonathan Gerrish, Ellen Chung, daughter, 1 & dog, suspicious death hiking area, Aug 2021 #4

[armchairagatha]

That’s one of the reasons I posted the question as to whether LE had followed the entire trail but I think it was removed by admin. If they saw footprints going towards Hites Cove they would have to follow all the way round the loop to reach the area where Jon, Ellen and Miju were discovered. Would they do that in the dark? Alternatively, they may have only gone so far on the HC trail and decided to take the SL trail from the same starting point and discovered the family just one and a half miles away. I wonder they didn’t send somebody in both directions but, I believe they said there were no footprints in the direction of SL - so no need for them to check in that direction. Another possibility is that they couldn’t see sufficiently in the dark and waited until daybreak to commence the search? MOO

Yes, I believe they waited until daybreak to get additional staffing to commence the search after the initial discovery of the vehicle at the top of the trail in the middle of the night. It was posted in one of the early threads.

 

[Lex Parsimoniae]

This is a good explanation but where is Miju situated in this scenario? In the backpack? On the ground? Sitting up? Lying down? In the arms of Jon? The reports state that Miju is in the backpack close to the dog and near to Jon when they were discovered.

I agree that the most likely scenario is some variation of @wary's which you quoted. Sheriff Briese said: “The child was in a backpack carrier near the dad, but not on the dad." If you are not familiar with such backpacks, they are usually made so you can set them on the ground, a picnic table etc in the upright position. They commonly have a sun shade, storage for all the baby necessities and things you might need for yourself, like a bladder of water. Since they seem well to do, and were said to have posted a photo of this backpack, it was probably a very good one, you can pay over $300 for the top of the line. From photos of the couple, they were using the front-style pack before. Those are good for small babies, once they get older and heavier the backpack style is easier to carry, and safer. Google baby carrier to see some examples. So in answer to your question, Miju was in the backpack, which was sitting on the ground, surely in the upright position, between her father and the dog. Dad took it off and set it down, and at some point sat himself, and that's how the sheriff says they were found. MOO. Here's a photo of our granddaughter in one, you can see the bottom is made to sit on a flat surface.

 

[LifeIsAMystery]

The above article link I posted says "backpack" and not "baby carrier" so it is possible that the camelback(?) backpack with 3 liters or so max capacity water bottle was the one they posted. Regardless, it appears there are news articles referencing an upload of a photo of a backpack of some sort on Sunday morning before the hike that their friends saw.

Above is a link to an article describing it as a "baby backpack." I wonder if the actual photo was private and the friend/realtor reported it to LE? The photo was never visible on IG, maybe it was a private FB post? I wonder if the friend/realtor who spoke with the press a bit was also the "house manager" who contacted LE? Some RE agents also do property management and they owned several rental/air b&b properties. The nanny may have known that person, both being local, or the RE may even have connected the nanny with the job, MOO, where they lived was quite remote and 20 miles from small Mariposa. Since the friend/realtor is also quoted in the article that discusses the photo of the baby backpack, agree she may have been the source of that info, just MOO.

Media have posted “private” pics of Jonathan and Ellen that are not accessible through their public IG or Facebook accounts; I am confused as to why LE can’t provide the actual backpack picture to the media. Maybe it was a temporary post that disappeared after 24 hours and friends remembered it but had no evidence of it.

I think the "friend"/realtor/possible "house manager" was the source of some of those photos in MSM, she was quoted in the articles that featured them, MOO.

 

[Pumphouse363]

Electronics is my field. I haven't paid much attention to what it takes to hack into a phone, but have read news articles about how difficult, expensive and time-consuming it is for the FBI to do it in national security cases such as the 2015 San Bernardino mass shooting. It probably depends on factors such as what type of phones they had, and how security-conscious they were. Here's an article about what it took to get into a terrorist's phone. Excerpt: "Attorney General William Barr and FBI Director Chris Wray announced that after months of work, FBI technicians had succeeded in unlocking the two iPhones used by the Saudi military officer who carried out a terrorist shooting at the Pensacola Naval Air Station in Florida in December 2019." MOO.

Thank you for that. They’ve no chance of getting into Jon’s phone then - and since they don’t think a crime has been committed - they won’t even bother. MOO

 

[Lex Parsimoniae]

A simple explanation is that this photo (and some others) were posted as "Instagram stories" or similar which automatically expire after 24 hours of posting. While the other photos provided to MSM were regular Instagram posts (which are not transient).
Instagram Posts vs Instagram Stories: Is One Better Than the Other?

You had me at "A simple explanation" @armchairagatha !

 

[Pumphouse363]

I agree that the most likely scenario is some variation of @wary's which you quoted. Sheriff Briese said: “The child was in a backpack carrier near the dad, but not on the dad." If you are not familiar with such backpacks, they are usually made so you can set them on the ground, a picnic table etc in the upright position. They commonly have a sun shade, storage for all the baby necessities and things you might need for yourself, like a bladder of water. Since they seem well to do, and were said to have posted a photo of this backpack, it was probably a very good one, you can pay over $300 for the top of the line. From photos of the couple, they were using the front-style pack before. Those are good for small babies, once they get older and heavier the backpack style is easier to carry, and safer. Google baby carrier to see some examples. So in answer to your question, Miju was in the backpack, which was sitting on the ground, surely in the upright position, between her father and the dog. Dad took it off and set it down, and at some point sat himself, and that's how the sheriff says they were found. MOO. Here's a photo of our granddaughter in one, you can see the bottom is made to sit on a flat surface.

Thank you for that detailed explanation. That’s why I think we need to consider the reason the media thought it important to report that they had uploaded a picture of the backpack on social media - but nobody seems to have actually seen it and it wasn’t in any of the news reports. We are still no wiser as to how Miju was carried nor how she was found.

 

[Pumphouse363]

Above is a link to an article describing it as a "baby backpack." I wonder if the actual photo was private and the friend/realtor reported it to LE? The photo was never visible on IG, maybe it was a private FB post? I wonder if the friend/realtor who spoke with the press a bit was also the "house manager" who contacted LE? Some RE agents also do property management and they owned several rental/air b&b properties. The nanny may have known that person, both being local, or the RE may even have connected the nanny with the job, MOO, where they lived was quite remote and 20 miles from small Mariposa. Since the friend/realtor is also quoted in the article that discusses the photo of the baby backpack, agree she may have been the source of that info, just MOO.


I think the "friend"/realtor/possible "house manager" was the source of some of those photos in MSM, she was quoted in the articles that featured them, MOO.

Curious that the ‘friend’ who is mentioned in the news reports does not have either Jon or Ellen as friends on her social media. MOO
“A friend reported the family missing at 11pm on Monday evening after Gerrish and Chung failed to show up for work that day, reported Fox 26 News.

Gerrish and Chung were last heard from early Sunday, when they uploaded a photo of a backpack. Rosanna Heaslett, the family friend, said they hiked on weekends.”
By Melissa Koenig For Dailymail.Com and Henry Martin For Mailonline04:01 23 Aug 2021, updated 04:32 23 Aug 2021

 

[Lex Parsimoniae]

Yes, it was about 2am that LE found J&E's vehicle, but the bodies were not discovered until approx. 11am.

Even in the dark, moving very slowly, a distance of 1.5 miles could be covered in 1-2hrs...

MOO

The explanation is in the timeline, they saw footprints of people and a dog going down the Hites Cove Trail, so they sent a search team that way. Eventually, also according to the timeline, more searchers arrived and they sent a second team down the Savage Lundy trail, which was successful. That's why it took so long.

 

[RedHaus]

@Lex Parsimoniae , given your background, did you ever weigh in with your opinion on what might happen to a phone being carried by a person who was struck by ground current lightning?

BBM
Hi @Parsnip.

I realize you're asking @Lex Parsimoniae about cell phone damage from ground lightning in particular. So I realize my old post #758, in response to your initial question in post #751 (T#3) does not answer your question. But it reminded me I had not yet responded to @woods' f/u question about my reference to JG's shirt pocket. So I am bumping my original post on lightning damage to phones (in general) with a correction (see red text, below) about where JG's phone was found by LE.

JG's phone was found in his right front pocket per MSM reporting and as previously cited by numerous posters here.

Thank you, @woods, for asking me to verify my initial post.
___________________________________________________________________________
#758, T#3 (RedHaus)
Hi @Parsnip. I may have found the answer to your question! Since JG's phone was in his shirt [this is an error, correction = "right front"] pocket and is being analyzed by the FBI, per LE, I suspect it was not melted or burned. As such, this may derail the lightning strike theory a bit... ETA

...there is a misconception that cell phones attract lightning, John Jensenius, lightning safety specialist for the National Weather Service, said. If someone is struck by lightning and they have a cell phone on them, it will usually melt or burn. People have taken that and blamed the cell phone, Jensenius said, but in reality it is unrelated. https://www.accuweather.com/en/weat...-your-cell-phone-during-a-thunderstorm/328975

Where’d you read that Jon’s cell phone was in his shirt pocket? News reports just say it was found in his pocket.

 

[Pumphouse363]

The explanation is in the timeline, they saw footprints of people and a dog going down the Hites Cove Trail, so they sent a search team that way. Eventually, also according to the timeline, more searchers arrived and they sent a second team down the Savage Lundy trail, which was successful. That's why it took so long.

There’s no mention of a second team in this timeline:
Mariposa Sheriff’s Office Update on the Gerrish – Chung Family | Sierra News Online

 

[Newsjunkiejen]

Yes, I believe they waited until daybreak to get additional staffing to commence the search after the initial discovery of the vehicle at the top of the trail in the middle of the night. It was posted in one of the early threads.

Thank you. That solves that little mystery then

 

[armchairagatha]

This blog has the detailed timeline of the search and rescue operation:
john gerrish death — Mysterious Stories Blog — StrangeOutdoors.com

 

[RedHaus]

This blog has the detailed timeline of the search and rescue operation:
john gerrish death — Mysterious Stories Blog — StrangeOutdoors.com

That is an interesting article @armchairagatha. I tend to like Strange Outdoors' coverage of cases like this as they appear rooted in facts, as we also know them. I found a few statements in this blog particularly intriguing and wonder what others think about how truly open this case is with regards to COD.

In particular, does anyone know if this case is still classified as a homicide investigation?

"Following the discovery of the bodies, although there was no sign of foul play or of trauma to the bodies, but in accordance with procedure, the investigation was classified as a homicide, pending results from the coroner’s post-mortem examinations and toxicology tests..."

"...Kristie Mitchell [Mariposa County Sheriff's spokeswoman] said, "...We're not focusing on one specific cause at this point. There's just still so many that we can't rule out. We've looked at lighting strikes in the area. We've looked at storms… the weather, animals. We're looking at the entire area as a whole... "It makes for a very unique, very strange situation. I think it's going to be a very long and in-depth, thorough investigation because it isn't as clear cut as what some cases are.""

"The Mariposa County Coroner is awaiting toxicology results from the bodies, which could take several weeks. The case remains ongoing, pending these investigations."

"On August 26, the Sheriff’s Office says it had “ruled out” weapons or “chemical hazards” along the Savage-Lundy Trail, as possible causes of death, but emphasized that, “ALL other potential causes of death remain.”"

john gerrish death — Mysterious Stories Blog — StrangeOutdoors.com (excerpts BBM)

 

[Lexiintoronto]

There’s no mention of a second team in this timeline:
Mariposa Sheriff’s Office Update on the Gerrish – Chung Family | Sierra News Online

They’re mentioned here, BBM:

“At 3:20 a.m., the sheriff’s office reserved a search helicopter for daybreak. They called in a second search team that began winding down the switchbacks that complete the loop back up to the Forest Service gate. This section of the Hites Cove Trail makes a loop, with the halfway point the south fork of the Merced River.”
'Not one clue': The mystery is only deepening around the family found dead on a Sierra trail

 

[LifeIsAMystery]

Curious that the ‘friend’ who is mentioned in the news reports does not have either Jon or Ellen as friends on her social media. MOO
“A friend reported the family missing at 11pm on Monday evening after Gerrish and Chung failed to show up for work that day, reported Fox 26 News.

Gerrish and Chung were last heard from early Sunday, when they uploaded a photo of a backpack. Rosanna Heaslett, the family friend, said they hiked on weekends.”
By Melissa Koenig For Dailymail.Com and Henry Martin For Mailonline04:01 23 Aug 2021, updated 04:32 23 Aug 2021

That is curious, IMOO. I wonder if she was the only person the nanny could think of to contact, perhaps she had referred her for the job. Ellen was pregnant when they were house hunting, so if someone from the area knew a potential nanny I'm sure they would welcome input. She was already in the counseling masters program so would need childcare.

 

[Lex Parsimoniae]

@Lex Parsimoniae , given your background, did you ever weigh in with your opinion on what might happen to a phone being carried by a person who was struck by ground current lightning?

No. I know a lot about electricity, but lightning is an extremely powerful version that does things I wouldn't think possible. It follows the rules, but in ways that I wouldn't expect. I read the technical explanation about how the reindeer were killed by it, and it made sense to me, but I would never have guessed the explanation, which had to do with permafrost. The general rule is electricity will follow the path of least resistance. The metal parts of a phone are good conductors so if there is voltage across it, current will flow. If lightning hits your head and goes to ground thru your feet, there's a good chance some of it would jump from your body to the top part of the phone, take the easy path thru the phone, then jump back to your body and down to your feet. In ground current lightning (I had to look that up) the current is flowing horizontally thru the ground, and flows up the closest leg and down the other, or in the case of reindeer, more legs. It's much less powerful than the case of it hitting your head because it is spread out, but can give you a shock that could stun you or affect your heart. So it's much less likely to damage your phone. But it would depend on how close you were to the strike and other factors. I can't say what would happen to a phone with any certainty. MOO

 

[Lubilu]

I think of you post a comment on an Instagram story it is retained in message form on the recipients phone.

Yes, no way to publicly 'comment' on a Story - you can directly reply in a message to the poster (although replies can also be switched off as an option), and the Stories themselves disappear from the page after 24h maximum (the other option is if the poster deletes it beforehand, in which case I don't think it's even archived on their account. If you leave it the full 24h, it'll be archived and viewable to the owner of the account from the account's archive). I've not seen the photo, but to me it seems clear that if it was shared to IG, it was as a Story. No need to speculate about secret accounts we don't know about. Some people do have multiple accounts, often a public one and one with more privacy (known as 'finstas' in my part of the world, at least) but I think that's unlikely with someone of EC's demographic (ie 30s, a parent - I associate finstas more with the younger generation, of which I'm still just about a part at the age of 27, but moreso for those 14-24).

I think posting to Stories also explains away some of the questions people have about there not being many posts on EC's main feed after Miju's birth - I think (imo...) it's likely she shared more to her Stories over the months since Miju was born, but we're not privy to them since we just weren't keeping an eagle eye on EC's social media before the incident. In my experience, I've not posted to my main IG feed in months but I do regularly post Stories. I have friends who haven't posted to their main feed in over a year, but I see Stories from them and wouldn't question the fact they haven't posted to main feed.

Sorry to go off on an Instagram tangent, but I think more than a few people are missing some factors of how IG works/is used. All just my experience which I'm sharing.

ETA a little bit more info, but mostly fixing grammar and layout!

 

[Pumphouse363]

I tend to like Strange Outdoors' coverage of cases like this as they appear rooted in facts, as we also know them. I found a few statements in this blog particularly intriguing and wonder what others think about how truly open this case is with regards to COD.

In particular, does anyone know if this case is still classified as a homicide investigation?

"Following the discovery of the bodies, although there was no sign of foul play or of trauma to the bodies, but in accordance with procedure, the investigation was classified as a homicide, pending results from the coroner’s post-mortem examinations and toxicology tests..."

"...Kristie Mitchell [Mariposa County Sheriff's spokeswoman] said, "...We're not focusing on one specific cause at this point. There's just still so many that we can't rule out. We've looked at lighting strikes in the area. We've looked at storms… the weather, animals. We're looking at the entire area as a whole... "It makes for a very unique, very strange situation. I think it's going to be a very long and in-depth, thorough investigation because it isn't as clear cut as what some cases are.""

"The Mariposa County Coroner is awaiting toxicology results from the bodies, which could take several weeks. The case remains ongoing, pending these investigations."

"On August 26, the Sheriff’s Office says it had “ruled out” weapons or “chemical hazards” along the Savage-Lundy Trail, as possible causes of death, but emphasized that, “ALL other potential causes of death remain.”"

john gerrish death — Mysterious Stories Blog — StrangeOutdoors.com

I have been informed by a lawyer that:
A homicide is the killing of a human by another. For example, when the medical examiner puts down a cause of death, if the person was killed by another, say through a shooting, the ME will put down homicide. That does not mean, however, that the ME is saying the person was murdered. All the ME is saying is that the person was killed by another person. For all the ME knows, it was a justified shooting. It is up for the cops to investigate the homicide and determine whether charges are appropriate, i.e. whether it was a murder.

Murder is an unlawful killing of a human being by another.

So a homicide is not always a crime, though sometimes people will use the term interchangeably with murder.
So, I believe, the LE said they have ruled out homicide but all other causes of death remain.

 

[Pumphouse363]

Deleted post

 

[Pumphouse363]

Yes, no way to publicly 'comment' on a Story - you can directly reply in a message to the poster (although replies can also be switched off as an option), and the Stories themselves disappear from the page after 24h maximum (the other option is if the poster deletes it beforehand, in which case I don't think it's even archived on their account. If you leave it the full 24h, it'll be archived and viewable to the owner of the account from the account's archive). I've not seen the photo, but to me it seems clear that if it was shared to IG, it was as a Story. No need to speculate about secret accounts we don't know about. Some people do have multiple accounts, often a public one and one with more privacy (known as 'finstas' in my part of the world, at least) but I think that's unlikely with someone of EC's demographic (ie 30s, a parent - I associate finstas more with the younger generation, of which I'm still just about a part at the age of 27, but moreso for those 14-24).

I think posting to Stories also explains away some of the questions people have about there not being many posts on EC's main feed after Miju's birth - I think (imo...) it's likely she shared more to her Stories over the months since Miju was born, but we're not privy to them since we just weren't keeping an eagle eye on EC's social media before the incident. In my experience, I've not posted to my main IG feed in months but I do regularly post Stories. I have friends who haven't posted to their main feed in over a year, but I see Stories from them and wouldn't question the fact they haven't posted to main feed.

Sorry to go off on an Instagram tangent, but I think more than a few people are missing some factors of how IG works/is used. All just my experience which I'm sharing.

ETA a little bit more info, but mostly fixing grammar and layout!

Your explanation is entirely feasible. I don’t think it’s a case of anyone thinking they had ‘secret’ accounts. It’s more about the fact that the pic of the rucksack is being used as evidence of the last time the couple made communication with anyone ie 6.45am and they could therefore be considered ‘alive and well’ at that time. The next piece of evidence is that their car was seen driving in the direction of HC trail at 7.45am The pic does not appear to be available anymore and it was only the vehicle that was identified not the occupants. It may indeed be the case that Ellen posted a ‘story’ on IG but clearly somebody saw it and thought it significant enough to inform LE. It therefore follows that the person who saw it knew (or surmised) their intentions - otherwise why mention it?